# Screamers Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 21, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938 "2009-09-21T13:16:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 20
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/381 "2009-09-28T15:09:35Z")
> [@AllWalker](#): > > First, to business: > > Based on what everyone has said so far, I will **cast my vote** and thus begin the 24 hour countdown **Thursday 1st Oct, 10 am EST** for a Day end Friday 2nd. That seems to suit most, though not all people. Hmm, been a long weekend and just catching up. First off, this caught my eye. The people who expressed a preference were Tuesday vote: CIAS #161, thing Fish #210, tom scud #248, jpei #267 , Normal Phase #279 Thursday vote: oredigger #250, FS #269 So, any reason for going with the less popular option. :dubious: **OAOW** : It has been mod-noted that he cannot be voted for Leader. As others have pointed out, this is not the same as him claiming the restriction. **peekercpa/Tom Scud** - It has occupied quite a few posts. I have seen comments like that get votes before, but this looks more like harrassment of Tom Scud than anything else. And frankly, I’m not expecting this game to be fair anyway, so TC’s comments do make a certain amount of sense. **jpei** : Have you played or watched any of these games before and do you know any of the players at all? Also one other question > [@jpei](#): > > I know neither Tom Scud nor AllWalker, so I opted not to vote. There’s still something “evilish” about these roles, and, roleplaying here, voting for a Leader implies an element of trust which I do not agree with. There were other people you could have voted for, but you have limited it to these two. Would you/Will you be able to vote for someone tomorrow? Oh and before I forget: **I am Town Aligned** ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/382 "2009-09-28T15:16:33Z")
> [@Nanook\_of\_the\_North\_Shore](#): > > The votes on jpei are dumb. Scum would never do that, blah blah, I know it’s not something you can rely on. But there’s sneaky smart moves, and there are dumb suicidal moves. Not voting in something that’s more or less meaningless is dumb for scum, lots of risk with little to gain. The one thing I’m worried about wrt **jpei** is that he’s covering for a (scum) role that prohibits voting for Leader. I’d appreciate it if he could dispel this by casting even a meaningless vote in the next election. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/383 "2009-09-28T15:19:13Z")
Yeah, I’m town-aligned as well. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/384 "2009-09-28T15:48:12Z")
Alky Seltzer (1): Boozy Scud jpeg (3): Normal Faze, OAoW, Fruedian Mot Scud(1): peekra The One and Only(1): Kronor Pecear(4): Tom Scad, Jimminy Chitwick, Gruff, Nook Chromos(1): Draid Bean ---
**Author:** ![Gryff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Gryff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gryff)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/385 "2009-09-28T15:50:59Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Alky Seltzer (1): Boozy Scud > jpeg (3): Normal Faze, OAoW, Fruedian > Mot Scud(1): peekra > The One and Only(1): Kronor > Pecear(4): Tom Scad, Jimminy Chitwick, Gruff, Nook > Chromos(1): Draid Bean Gruff… what am I? A billy goat? ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/386 "2009-09-28T15:53:57Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > The skirmish between **peeker** and **TomScud** is now beginning to look to me like two scum fighting for show. I thought at first that it was just peeker going on and on about something that looked like nothing to everyone else, but I wonder now why Tom keeps defending himself and prolonging the skirmish when no one else thinks he was suspicious and he’s obviously not going to convince peeker. Tom’s vote on peeker would seem to indicate that they are not a pair of scum, but it’s early in the Day – and so something to keep an eye on. I was feeling a little paranoid, and a little annoyed. I didn’t want to check back in this morning and find that I’d picked up 5 votes from the people avoiding Monday morning work. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/387 "2009-09-28T16:11:23Z")
So, on my first read through, I was a little depressed that the incidents which jumped out at me had jumped out at everyone else already. To wit: **Chronos** ’ vote on **OAOW** ; \*\*peeker \*\*vs **Tom**. However, on my second read through, I noticed something else. **Chronos** ’ vote generated a fair bit of conversation, including this dialogue between \*\*AllWalker \*\*and **Drain Bead** : > [@AllWalker](#): > > **Chronos** , I really have to disagree with your vote. **OaOW** was forced into soft claiming by the colour, and then didn’t fully claim because the Town advised him not to. Assuming he is telling the truth, his only options were ignore the questions, soft claim, or lie. I know which of those is the least anti-Town. > [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Was **OaOW** forced into claiming, though? I mean, we knew he couldn’t be leader, but we didn’t know _why_ until he told us it was role-based and not power-based. In fact, up until the soft-claim, I was assuming he had been blocked by someone else. Now, maybe it was a good idea to clear up that misconception, or maybe it was a bit of early panic on **OaOW** ’s part, or maybe **OaOW** is scum who is spreading discord and confusion. > > Perhaps it was a mistake on our part to direct questions to **OaOW** and not the mods, but we really don’t know if soft-claiming was something that **OaOW** truly needed to do _at the moment that he did it_. I don’t think he was drawing suspicion, and while some of us may have misconstrued what was going on, I’m not sure if clearing that up was something that needed to happen right then. I agree with you that he needed to claim eventually, but it did seem a bit premature. At this point, it looks like **Drain Bead** agrees somewhat with \*\*Chronos \*\*- i.e. that \*\*OAOW \*\*deserves some scrutiny, at least over the timing of his claim. But then comes this post: > [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > This lie-detector thing seems like it’s adding unnecessary noise. If it works by only being able to detect actual lies related to alignment, it’ll only be helpful if we all participate in stating our alignment. Ontherwise the scum can hide in the non-zero amount of townies who claim nothing. And seeing as we don’t even know if we have a lie detector, and if we do, his or her talents will eventually only be used to check actual role claims, this seems very premature. > > I’m a bit concerned with **Chronos** and what appears to be two attempts at role-fishing. He’s an experienced player and should know better. > > **Vote Chronos** > > (vote formatting on the phone is annoying!) Two points here: One, a U-turn on **Chronos** ’ vote, which has gone from being an apparently reasonable scrutiny of \*\*OAOW \*\*to an attempt at role-fishing. Two, the opposition to giving the putative Lie-Detector a lead. We’re all \*implicitly \*claiming town-alignment: why not come out and say it outright? No reason if you’re town; one good reason if you’re scum. I wouldn’t say it was proof, but I’d expect scum to tend to be reluctant to make the explicit claim. Couple that with the flip on the wisdom of Chronos’ vote, and I’m happy to: **Vote Drain Bead**. Oh, and in the light of the above: **I am town-aligned**. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/388 "2009-09-28T16:16:16Z")
Alky Seltzer (1): Boozy Scud jpeg (3): Normal Faze, OAoW, Fruedian Mot Scud(1): peekra The One and Only(1): Kronor Pecear(4): Tom Scad, Jimminy Chitwick, Gruff, Nook Chromos(2): Draid Bean, amrussell ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/389 "2009-09-28T16:26:49Z")
> [@amrussell](#): > > So, on my first read through, I was a little depressed that the incidents which jumped out at me had jumped out at everyone else already. Ya, I’m with you here I was thinking that I had hit on something with the Tom/Peeker thing and I may have but I don’t think that jumping on the Peeker train at this point will help with giving the town any information. > [@amrussell](#): > > One, a U-turn on **Chronos** ’ vote, which has gone from being an apparently reasonable scrutiny of \*\*OAOW \*\*to an attempt at role-fishing. This on the other hand is pretty good and I would love to hear and explanation but I’ll hold off a vote until we learn more. I don’t get everyone making the statement that they are town because at this point there are enough claims that the lie detector won’t have time to check them all before we get to claims so it’s a safe statement for scum to make too. But since I’m sure that not saying it will be held against me as scummy in later Days. I am town. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/390 "2009-09-28T16:36:00Z")
Errors in vote count: First, my name has an N as in November, not an M as in Mike (and I’m _certainly_ not Kronor). Second and more importantly, **amrussel** voted for **Drain Bead** , not me. Quoth **Tom Scud** : > [@](#): > > The one thing I’m worried about wrt jpei is that he’s covering for a (scum) role that prohibits voting for Leader. I’d appreciate it if he could dispel this by casting even a meaningless vote in the next election. Right. **jpei** , if you still don’t feel justified in voting for Leader toMorrow, at least put in a vote for yourself, or something. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/391 "2009-09-28T16:40:32Z")
…And I just noticed that most of the names in the vote count are mangled, not just mine. “Boozy Scud” in particular has potential to be very confusing, given that we do actually have someone named Scud (I think that vote is actually **Boozahol Squid, PI** , right?). ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/392 "2009-09-28T16:48:41Z")
(On review, the theme of this post appears to be: how to disagree with every vote but the ones I cast myself. Sorry 'bout that.) I’m totally procrastinating trying to figure out the **Tom** / **peeker** dispute. For now I’ll just say that first: I don’t see anything particularly scummy about either of them. **Tom** is being **Tom** , to my knowledge, and **peeker** , **peeker**. That doesn’t mean I think it’s a useful discussion. And **peeker** , let me just point out that saying I understand what you were getting at with your first accusation against **Tom** does not mean I agree with you as to the conclusion – in fact, I said as much in the very post of mine you quoted. But in any case, on to other things. > [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > I disagree, although I used the wrong term by saying trust list. The natural thing is for townies to vote for players they think are town, as we don’t want scum to control a tie-break. The closer we get to an endgame the greater the value of the leader role, and the closer the leader vote gets to a poll of the most trusted players. I see better what you were getting at now, though hopefully we’ll acquire some confirmed Town along the way, so that won’t be an issue. > [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > Going back to the Miller claim, if we do have a Miller I don’t think we’d have to lych them straight away. They might be a good candidate for a vig or daykill if town has that option, instead of wasting a non-information gathering lynch on them. We might also be able to use this to confirm a vig or daykill power claim. > [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > Really? I mean, I could see an unlimited Vig knocking off a Miller, but certainly not a daykiller, who’s almost certainly going to be limited in the number of kills they can make. Plus, vigging a Miller instead of lynching them sets us back a half day, given that an early lynch is more likely to be a mislynch. > Bad ideas are… bad for town. > vote: Alka Selzter I’m sorry, I think this is a bad vote. For one thing, it’s far from certain that a vig of a putative Miller would be in any way bad for Town. If we were to have a compulsory vig, for example, it would be a net plus. (Granted, with all roles secret, we have no way of knowing if we have either.) Second, even if you’re right, since when are isolated bad ideas, with no other reason for suspicion, worthy of votes? Jumping on them willy-nilly could serve to repress speculation entirely, and _that_ is bad for Town. > [@One\_And\_Only\_Wanderers](#): > > I’m also going to > > vote jpei > > Yes votes give information. It is the analysis of this information that leads to us finding the scum. Not voting is kind of like trying to be inactive whilst in plain sight. > I’m not saying this vote will stay on you all day, but hopefully it woll encourage you to get some information out there. We have little to go on Day One, so the votes necessarily have to start with some “crap” reasons. Given you’re voting the same way I am, this will no doubt sound weird, but again, I think this is a poor basis for a vote. I think it’s a bad idea in general to vote as a means of encouraging someone to do something. If it’s meant and pursued in earnest, it’s bullying someone you implicitly think is Town. It also makes an easy rationale for not voting based on who you actually think is most likely to be Scum. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > NETA: I’m more than willing to unvote if someone better comes along or if you guys think lynching him is an utterly terrible idea. I just hate inaction as a rule because if we all did it we’d have sheer silence. This is a very strange day. I have a bit of an issue with this too. Are you really offering your vote up to the majority opinion? That’s a great way of avoiding responsibility, if so. (“if someone better comes along”, on the other hand, is perfectly valid, but it’s also so obvious that why mention it? The appearance is that you’re trying to excuse your vote even as you’re making it.) Is this what **Daphne Black** refers to below when she says everyone’s playing cautiously? > [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > I’m a little suspicious of Normal Phase right now. He brought up the PFK Jester idea, which struck me as possible scum blowing smoke. Since I can’t remember if anyone’s brought this up: the whole Miller discussion seems to have grown out of a post by **JoeyP** on the Giraffe boards right before this game started, where he questioned whether a Miller should always claim on Day One. I brought up the possible presence of a PFK Jester as one reason not to … then brought it up in the Disney Mafia game over there … then brought it up here … I think I got carried away. > [@Chronos](#): > > … > > The reason I’m not voting for him, though, is that I have another candidate in mind. I’m always strongly opposed to soft-claims, since Scum doesn’t need to know what powers someone has, they just need to know who has them. Saying that you’re special but not saying how doesn’t help Town, but does help Scum. For that reason, I’ll > Vote One and Only Wanderers Do you think **OAOW** is more likely to be Scum than the average player is? It doesn’t look like it – it actually looks like you believe him to be Town. If so, why are you voting for him? Just to put pressure on him to claim? As mentioned above, I think that’s a really cruddy reason to vote someone. Argue with him, sure, if you think that’s best. > [@Chronos](#): > > Oh, one other thing: Someone posted upthread the possibility of a Lie Detector role, which reminds me that **Mahaloth** had one of those in the Lost game I was in. It probably won’t matter, but it can’t hurt, and in case we have a Lie Detector here, > > **I am Town-aligned**. I am Town-aligned (and see more comments on this below). However. > [@Chronos](#): > > Because I wanted to be emphatic about it, and because I believe soft-claiming is significantly anti-Town, even if others apparently disagree here. If **Wanderers** finishes his claim and it’s plausible or confirmable, I’ll move my vote. So you are doing this primarily to try to squeeze a full claim out of him. > [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > This lie-detector thing seems like it’s adding unnecessary noise. If it works by only being able to detect actual lies related to alignment, it’ll only be helpful if we all participate in stating our alignment. Ontherwise the scum can hide in the non-zero amount of townies who claim nothing. And seeing as we don’t even know if we have a lie detector, and if we do, his or her talents will eventually only be used to check actual role claims, this seems very premature. > > I’m a bit concerned with **Chronos** and what appears to be two attempts at role-fishing. He’s an experienced player and should know better. > > Vote Chronos > > (vote formatting on the phone is annoying!) I’m curious what you see as the downside to a simple “yeah I’m also Town” from everyone, even if you do have questions about **Chronos’** motivations. It doesn’t take Scum lying to make a Lie Detector useful, so what’s the harm? Unless you can come up with someone more persuasive than what you’ve said so far, I have to say I find your reluctance suspicious. > [@Chronos](#): > > So, **Daphne** , does this mean I can honestly say that women find me inscrutable? 😉 Hah! I for one (yes, I’m female) seem to find you inherently suspicious. Just look how I went after you the first day in Mutiny on the SS Insipid – and you were a Mason! Of course I got myself lynched for it. > [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > I also noted that Boozy said he was considering following Peeker’s vote, but he’s been quiet since then. I would also like to see some follow-up on that. > [@jpei](#): > > … > **@Freudian Slit** > > I’ve become a Rorschach test of sorts with no concensus on my reasoning in sight. While others have commented, no others have felt it merited a vote yet. You are, undoubtedly, aware of this. Under what circumstances would you remove your vote on me? This isn’t helping you with me. You are still in no serious danger of being lynched; why are you already bargaining for your life? If you’re Town, you should be finding Scum, and this isn’t it. That said, **unvote** **vote: Drain Bead** I find the open reluctance to claim Town more suspicious than I find you. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/393 "2009-09-28T17:03:48Z")
Alky Seltzer (1): Boozahol Octo, FBI jpeg (2): OAoW, Fruedian Mot Scud(1): peekra The One and Only(1): Kronzor Pecear(4): Tom Scad, Jimminy Chitwick, Gruff, Nook Cronos(2): Draid Bean The Dread Bean (2): amrussett, Abnormal Phase > [@Chronos](#): > > Errors in vote count: > First, my name has an N as in November, not an M as in Mike (and I’m _certainly_ not Kronor). Second and more importantly, **amrussel** voted for **Drain Bead** , not me. > Quoth **Tom Scud** :Right. **jpei** , if you still don’t feel justified in voting for Leader toMorrow, at least put in a vote for yourself, or something. I fixed all the things you mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/394 "2009-09-28T17:10:31Z")
Quick activity-related check: I was going to call out Oredigger, but he’s just posted. BillMC says he’s swamped in Real Life, so that’s that. So **tiltawhirl** , come on down! We’ve got a cool half-dozen or so controversies brewing; let us know what you think (even if it’s “gosh, none of these seem convincing”). ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/395 "2009-09-28T17:27:04Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > I don’t see it adding a lot of noise, it can be dealt with very quickly by stating: I stated my issues with this before. Basically, IF we have a lie detector, unless everyone participates in saying “I am town-aligned”, then the lie detector is only going to be checking people who are town-aligned, because the scum can hide in the number of townies who don’t participate. Meaning that saying “I am town-aligned” is damn near useless at this point. I think we should all do it, actually, if anyone is going to do it. So hey, lie detector we probably don’t have–I’m town-aligned too, and I will be viewing with suspicion anyone who doesn’t also say that. And this will create noise and really not be useful at all. Also, were you saying you were town-aligned there, or were you saying “This problem can be dealt with my stating I am town aligned”? There’s a difference. > [@](#): > > **@Drain Bead** - what was Chronos’ other attempt at role fishing? Fishing for the lie detector, if there is one, or more likely, fishing for the few people confident enough in their towniness to come out and say that they’re town-aligned. If he’s scum and there are people who do not participate who are not his scum teammates, he may be able to flesh out PFKs or maybe another scum team that way. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/396 "2009-09-28T17:33:48Z")
> [@amrussell](#): > > One, a U-turn on **Chronos** ’ vote, which has gone from being an apparently reasonable scrutiny of \*\*OAOW \*\*to an attempt at role-fishing. Good point. I wasn’t happy with Drain Bead’s reasoning on role-fishing, but I’d missed the contradiction. **Vote Drain Bead** **@Drain Bead** - Just to check I’m understanding you properly, Chronos’ two role-fishing attempts are pressuring OaOW for a role-claim, and bringing up the possibility of a lie-detector role? **@BillMC** - Appreciate you are busy atm, but do you think you’ll be catch up on the game before the day 1 deadline? If not, can I request that you ask for a replacement please. **@Gryff** - I see you’ve posted now, but I’d still like to hear your thoughts on the leader role mechanics, and the current wagons. > [@peekercpa](#): > > just remember scum will do anything. the ignore “scum would never do that” meme is very wisely counseled. This is an odd post (#373), as I was talking about role assignment by the mods, not how a scum might play a role. In any case, I think in terms of probabilities. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/397 "2009-09-28T17:47:20Z")
I should have previewed before my last post. > [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > I think we should all do it, actually, if anyone is going to do it. That’s the simplest way of dealing with the issue. It avoiding any possibility of role-fishing, gives a hypothetical lie detector a free choice of invstigation, and cuts out any noise issues. > [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Also, were you saying you were town-aligned there, or were you saying “This problem can be dealt with my stating I am town aligned”? There’s a difference. In case there is any confusion. **I am town aligned.** > [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Fishing for the lie detector, if there is one, or more likely, fishing for the few people confident enough in their towniness to come out and say that they’re town-aligned. The reasoning does not stack up here, all townies should be 100% confident that they are, in fact, town. What has confidence got to do with saying “I am town”? ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/398 "2009-09-28T18:05:03Z")
NETA: Came in, did a quick response, then had to leave for a while. I posted it without seeing the rest of the thread that had gone on while I was gone, then left again. Hopefully that one response addressed most of the issues that other people brought up. If you still have questions that I didn’t answer, let me know. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/399 "2009-09-28T18:08:44Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > The reasoning does not stack up here, all townies should be 100% confident that they are, in fact, town. What has confidence got to do with saying “I am town”? I also should have previewed. All townies are confident that they’re town. Not all townies are going to be confident enough to say “I am town aligned,” whether through laziness or an inherent distrust of the idea of doing it or whatever. This is why I think that if we’re going to be doing this, we should ALL be doing it. I probably should have been more explicit in my original post about this idea that this would be the only way around the problems I was suggesting. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/400 "2009-09-28T19:15:14Z")
I don’t think that you’ve answered the question about your change on Chronos’ first ‘fishing’ attempt. You start off thinking that OAOW did soft claim without being forced by the mod and seem to believe that more questions need to be directed to him about his claim. Then you switch to Chronos fishing for OAOW’s role. So what I get from your current posts is that fishing is asking questions that you feel need to be asked and forcing answers with a vote. That sounds like pretty good play to me. Your second thought of a fishing attempt was; > [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Fishing for the lie detector, if there is one, or more likely, fishing for the few people confident enough in their towniness to come out and say that they’re town-aligned. If he’s scum and there are people who do not participate who are not his scum teammates, he may be able to flesh out PFKs or maybe another scum team that way. Basically him claiming to be town so that people who don’t claim could possibly be third party or scum. I think you’re stretching pretty hard to give this a scum motive. There are two types of people who are going to get caught by his game scum and townies who don’t play along. If he’s scum he is shrinking their group for hunting third parties and shrinking the town group for hunting for scum. While possibly a good move for the end game it helps the town more then it does the scum. I don’t think ‘fishing’ for scum is a bad thing even if a couple of townies get caught up in the ploy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938.md?page=19) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938.md?page=21)