# Screamers Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 21, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938 "2009-09-21T13:16:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/401 "2009-09-28T20:05:31Z")
Alky Seltzer (1): Boozahol Octo, FBI jpeg (2): OAoW, Fruedian Mot Scud(1): peekra The One and Only(1): Kronzor Pecear(4): Tom Scad, Jimminy Chitwick, Gruff, Nook Cronos(2): Draid Bean The Dread Bean (3): amrussett, Abnormal Phase, Alka Celtser ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/402 "2009-09-28T20:06:35Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I don’t think that you’ve answered the question about your change on Chronos’ first ‘fishing’ attempt. You start off thinking that OAOW did soft claim without being forced by the mod and seem to believe that more questions need to be directed to him about his claim. Then you switch to Chronos fishing for OAOW’s role. I think there are two separate issues here that you’re conflating a bit. Even if **OAOW** brought all this upon himself by soft-claiming when it may not have been necessary, I’m having trouble seeing a town motivation in voting for him in order to force a full claim. As I said in my initial post on the subject, there are perfectly good townie reasons for why **OAOW** might not want to full claim (I believe I came up with a good townie reason, a poor townie reason, and a scummy reason). These, however, are separate from the question of whether **OAOW** should have ever soft-claimed in the first place, which is the only issue I was addressing in the post where you say I flip-flopped. Now that he has, though, I disagree with voting for him to force a full claim. If anyone other than **Chronos** has a reason, I’d love to hear it, but it seems so far as if most people are siding with me on this one. > [@](#): > > Basically him claiming to be town so that people who don’t claim could possibly be third party or scum. I think you’re stretching pretty hard to give this a scum motive. There are two types of people who are going to get caught by his game scum and townies who don’t play along. If he’s scum he is shrinking their group for hunting third parties and shrinking the town group for hunting for scum. While possibly a good move for the end game it helps the town more then it does the scum. I don’t think ‘fishing’ for scum is a bad thing even if a couple of townies get caught up in the ploy. If we don’t all do it, the scum, if they’re smart, will go ahead and say “I am town-aligned.” It’s not impossible, but unlikely, that we have a lie detector in this game. It is much more likely that we have a Cop of some sort. The Cop might be very thankful for the smaller group of investigative targets, and spend their time investigating lazy or distrustful townies, while the scum hides in the group of people who claim town alignment, distracting the Cop. All of this is more noise. We should just all come out and say we’re town-aligned, get it over with, and not distract potential Cops and Lie Detectors. The problem is that it’ll be really tough to get 24 people to agree on doing this–which is what I think **Chronos** was banking on. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/403 "2009-09-28T20:07:37Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > Alky Seltzer (1): Boozahol Octo, FBI > jpeg (2): OAoW, Fruedian > Mot Scud(1): peekra > The One and Only(1): Kronzor > Pecear(4): Tom Scad, Jimminy Chitwick, Gruff, Nook > Cronos(2): Draid Bean > The Dread Bean (3): amrussett, Abnormal Phase, Alka Celtser Chronos should only have 1 vote–you have him with 2. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/404 "2009-09-28T20:11:30Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Chronos should only have 1 vote–you have him with 2. Alky Seltzer (1): Boozahol Octo, FBI jpeg (2): OAoW, Fruedian Mot Scud(1): peekra The One and Only(1): Kronzor Pecear(4): Tom Scad, Jimminy Chitwick, Gruff, Nook Cronos(1): Braid Dean The Dread Bean (3): amrussett, Abnormal Phase, Alka Celtser Fixed. ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/405 "2009-09-28T20:27:39Z")
It’s funny, I was thinking this afternoon that I was going to vote **Drain Bead** , and then I come back and she’s already got three votes! As much as I don’t like **Chronos** (the Inscrutable)'s vote on OaOW, her reaction to it and to the lie detector is just screaming ‘not Town’ to me. And her latest comment about the cop is weird. If we have a cop and they investigate townies, that’s a Good Thing. It’s good to find scum too of course, but it has been noted recently that a Cop can be just as valuable to confirm townies. Seems to be her remarks on this point are subtly trying to lead any cops astray. At the very least it’s a strange attitude. Oh, and I am Town-aligned. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/406 "2009-09-28T20:30:37Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > This is a very strange day. I have a bit of an issue with this too. Are you really offering your vote up to the majority opinion? That’s a great way of avoiding responsibility, if so. (“if someone better comes along”, on the other hand, is perfectly valid, but it’s also so obvious that why mention it? The appearance is that you’re trying to excuse your vote even as you’re making it.) Is this what **Daphne Black** refers to below when she says everyone’s playing cautiously? Well…why not mention it? Anyway, I don’t think the case for **jpei** is all that great. I just honed in him for the whole not voting for a leader thing, which I viewed as inactivity. He’s been a lot more active now, so I’ll unvote. \*\* Unvote jpei\*\* As for anyone else, as it’s the first day out and we’re likely to select a townie no matter what, so far I don’t have a vote, but I’m reviewing posts and trying to see if anything suspicious comes to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/407 "2009-09-28T20:46:02Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > I think there are two separate issues here that you’re conflating a bit. Even if **OAOW** brought all this upon himself by soft-claiming when it may not have been necessary, I’m having trouble seeing a town motivation in voting for him in order to force a full claim. As I said in my initial post on the subject, there are perfectly good townie reasons for why **OAOW** might not want to full claim (I believe I came up with a good townie reason, a poor townie reason, and a scummy reason). These, however, are separate from the question of whether **OAOW** should have ever soft-claimed in the first place, which is the only issue I was addressing in the post where you say I flip-flopped. Now that he has, though, I disagree with voting for him to force a full claim. If anyone other than **Chronos** has a reason, I’d love to hear it, but it seems so far as if most people are siding with me on this one. Ok, I think I buy this. You don’t think that OAOW should have soft claimed so you had questions and you defiantly don’t think that he should full claim so you are voting for Chronos for trying to force that. I don’t think that really counts a fishing and I agree with Chronos in principle but at least I see where you’re coming from. > [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > If we don’t all do it, the scum, if they’re smart, will go ahead and say “I am town-aligned.” It’s not impossible, but unlikely, that we have a lie detector in this game. It is much more likely that we have a Cop of some sort. The Cop might be very thankful for the smaller group of investigative targets, and spend their time investigating lazy or distrustful townies, while the scum hides in the group of people who claim town alignment, distracting the Cop. All of this is more noise. We should just all come out and say we’re town-aligned, get it over with, and not distract potential Cops and Lie Detectors. The problem is that it’ll be really tough to get 24 people to agree on doing this–which is what I think **Chronos** was banking on. I’m still having problems with this. You started off calling this fishing but now you’re saying that he is trying to lead our power roles astray by giving them a group to search that doesn’t have any scum. Even if you’re correct and he is trying to make sure they don’t find any scum with their investigations then he is doing more to help the town because the scum can’t kill that group and the detective will be able to build a group of confirmed townies. There is a big difference between fishing and distracting power roles which do you think Chronos is doing again? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/408 "2009-09-28T20:47:37Z")
Quoth **Drain Bead** : > [@](#): > > Fishing for the lie detector, if there is one, or more likely, fishing for the few people confident enough in their towniness to come out and say that they’re town-aligned. If he’s scum and there are people who do not participate who are not his scum teammates, he may be able to flesh out PFKs or maybe another scum team that way. Wait, so, “fishing” for PFKs or Scum is somehow a bad thing? I thought that was what we were all supposed to be doing? Sure, if I were Scum, I’d be curious about any third parties, but as Town, I’m also curious about third parties. And second parties, for that matter. ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/409 "2009-09-28T20:50:31Z")
Holy crap, I forgot to vote. **vote Drain Bead** ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/410 "2009-09-28T20:54:16Z")
I am town alig–GAH!!! ::screams and falls to the ground:: Yeah, it sort of screams of that real life, cops have to reply that they are undercover cops if asked logic. **Vote Drain Bead** And I am town aligned. And Town Aligned. And Town-Aligned. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/411 "2009-09-28T21:11:12Z")
Alky Seltzer (1): Boozahol Octo, FBI jpeg (2): OAoW Mot Scud(1): peekra The One and Only(1): Kronzor Pecear(4): Tom Scad, Jimminy Chitwick, Gruff, Nook Cronos(1): Braid Dean The Dread Bean (5): amrussett, Abnormal Phase, Alka Celtser, DaphkneeBlack, Freudian Skip ---
**Author:** ![jpei](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@jpei](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jpei)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/412 "2009-09-28T21:34:57Z")
> [@Normal\_Phase](#): > > This isn’t helping you with me. You are still in no serious danger of being lynched; why are you already bargaining for your life? If you’re Town, you should be finding Scum, and this isn’t it. You yourself question her shoddy logic, and when I want a response from her lips, I’m not helping my case. Why are you so convinced this couldn’t help find scum? **I am town-aligned.** And wow, OAoW has two votes on me. ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/413 "2009-09-28T23:12:22Z")
> [@jpei](#): > > You yourself question her shoddy logic, and when I want a response from her lips, I’m not helping my case. Why are you so convinced this couldn’t help find scum? The original quote from you: > [@](#): > > @Freudian Slit > > I’ve become a Rorschach test of sorts with no concensus on my reasoning in sight. While others have commented, no others have felt it merited a vote yet. You are, undoubtedly, aware of this. Under what circumstances would you remove your vote on me? You characterize that as asking for a response regarding shoddy logic? You characterize that as trying to find Scum? It looks much more like it’s focused on saving **jpei**. In retrospect that’s the trouble I’m having with nearly all your posts, I think: me, me, me. I don’t want to risk myself voting for leader. I’m a Rorshach test, so many people are commenting on me. What will it take for you to remove your vote on me? Get it? ---
**Author:** ![Normal\_Phase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Normal\_Phase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Normal_Phase)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/414 "2009-09-28T23:14:38Z")
NETA: If you really do want to find Scum, try looking at some comments that don’t have anything to do with you. Even mine, if you seriously have a problem with my approach that isn’t limited to the extent to which I’ve questioned you. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/415 "2009-09-28T23:25:01Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > Oh, no offense taken, and none intended. Didn’t mean to generalize beyond the point at issue. I should have been more clear about it. > > I just still think that particular point was nonsense. fair enough. because i haven’t played any games with you i don’t know what your threshhold may be. some folks can be awful thin skinned and others not so much (i would fall in the latter camp). i mean, obviously, we don’t agree, but i sure as heck don’t want that to come across in bad form. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/416 "2009-09-28T23:57:02Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **Drain Bead** :Wait, so, “fishing” for PFKs or Scum is somehow a bad thing? I thought that was what we were all supposed to be doing? Sure, if I were Scum, I’d be curious about any third parties, but as Town, I’m also curious about third parties. And second parties, for that matter. If you are any role other than Lie Detector, IMO what you’ve done has made it easier for Scum to find other scum and PFKs than it is for Town to find them, which concerns me. ---
**Author:** ![tiltawhirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@tiltawhirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiltawhirl)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/417 "2009-09-29T00:17:43Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Quick activity-related check: I was going to call out Oredigger, but he’s just posted. BillMC says he’s swamped in Real Life, so that’s that. > > So **tiltawhirl** , come on down! We’ve got a cool half-dozen or so controversies brewing; let us know what you think (even if it’s “gosh, none of these seem convincing”). Sure thing…this game sure looks a lot easier from the bleachers than it does on the field!!! **@jpei** - as a n00b I can relate to the difficulty of not knowing when to jump in, but the nonvote for Leader really can’t be defended as any kind of principled, much less pro-town move. No vote from me at this time, but you really need to start engaging (says the 6-post player). **Tom Scud vs. peekercpa** - I looked really hard at Tom’s post #131 to see if he may have made a slip about the presence/absence of third parties. Tom was making an educated guess on the most likely number of mislynches available to Town in the context of the policy discussion around ‘lynch declared Millers first’ and was not addressing the larger issue of whether there were third parties in the game. While I find peekercpa’s points to be without merit, I think his aggressive nit-picking will quickly lead to his undoing if he is Scum and will work to the Town’s benefit if Town. I am aligned with Town. more anon. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/418 "2009-09-29T00:58:40Z")
> [@](#): > > If you are any role other than Lie Detector, IMO what you’ve done has made it easier for Scum to find other scum and PFKs than it is for Town to find them, which concerns me. OK, even if we stipulate that for the sake of argument, if there are two Scum factions in the game (another point we need to stipulate for the sake of argument, because I don’t think there’s any evidence yet for such), I’d rather have them fighting each other than fighting us. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/419 "2009-09-29T02:23:07Z")
> [@BillMC](#): > > I’m good with a Friday day end as Monday/Tuesdays for the next few weeks look like being hell on earth. > > Obviously Pede has found out what hard liquor is: > > But have you noticed he _hasn’t_ mangled “The One and Only”? Pede pointing out that **OAoW** cannot be the leader may a game mechanic or due to their role. It would be pretty gastardly for Pede to call attention to **OAoW** on Day1; so I’m willing to give OAoW the benefit of the doubt for today. Ah, but I did. It’s supposed to be OaOW; I said OAoW. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/420 "2009-09-29T02:24:59Z")
> [@jpei](#): > > You yourself question her shoddy logic, and when I want a response from her lips, I’m not helping my case. Why are you so convinced this couldn’t help find scum? > > **I am town-aligned.** > > And wow, OAoW has two votes on me. Alky Seltzer (1): Boozahol Octo, FBI jpeg (1): OAoW Mot Scud(1): peekra The One and Only(1): Kronzor Pecear(4): Tom Scad, Jimminy Chitwick, Gruff, Nook Cronos(1): Braid Dean The Dread Bean (5): amrussett, Abnormal Phase, Alka Celtser, DaphkneeBlack, Freudian Skip Fixed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938.md?page=22)