# Screamers Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 21, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938 "2009-09-21T13:16:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/421 "2009-09-29T03:43:30Z")
I have never seen a game where the voting was this extremely bandwagony. Of the last nine votes cast, the first four were for **peeker** and then the next five were all for **Drain Bead.** I have no idea what this means, but I think it may mean something; the most obvious possibility would be some sort of organized effort to save **peeker.** Anyway, for now I will **vote peeker** both to break up that weird juju and because I thought his persistent picking on **Tom** seemed unjustified (pretty much the same reasons everyone else has voted for him for, in other words). However, I think the case against **Drain Bead** also seems reasonable, so I’ll want to go back over that and possibly reconsider. BTW, **peeker** , um, little awkward under the circumstances, but it’s great to have you back!! ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/422 "2009-09-29T03:59:46Z")
I have never played in a game with a lie detector before. So I am not sure I really understand the point of everyone stating their town alignment. Is it just so that the lie detector is able to investigate them? I am not sure how this helps, but for the record, I am town aligned. \*\*Vote: jpei \*\* for not voting in the election and trying to find reasons for not voting, both before the election and afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/423 "2009-09-29T06:24:04Z")
I hope people are cool with a Friday finish - I didn’t exactly count the number of people who wanted a particular day for me to vote, I just kind of estimated. Apparently I should stick to counting. But this has been a busy Day 1 - maybe it’s just as well. **Drain Bead** , I don’t think the “confidence of their Towniness” is a good metric. Everyone is trying to portray themselves as Town, whether because they are or because they want to be seen as that. I honestly think the difference is timezones and personality will account for much more in regards to saying “I am Town” than any level of Scuminess. Plus, I don’t like reasoning that makes references to 2 Scum teams when the colour or rules don’t suggest that this is the case. In other news I can bring the vote forward to Tuesday if people want, but I don’t want to pull a last minute change on everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Gryff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Gryff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gryff)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/424 "2009-09-29T08:38:39Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > I stated my issues with this before. Basically, IF we have a lie detector, unless everyone participates in saying “I am town-aligned”, then the lie detector is only going to be checking people who are town-aligned, because the scum can hide in the number of townies who don’t participate. > > ..snip… Actually I think it gives a lie detector (if s/he exists) more options. It allows them to investigate anyone they think is suspicious (for other reasons) in the same manner as a cop, as opposed to them having to hunt for another more ambiguous statement to test. Nothing says that the lie detector has to only scan people who have stated “I am town”. In summary it only gives the LD more options, so this is a strange thing to be arguing against. > [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > If you are any role other than Lie Detector, IMO what you’ve done has made it easier for Scum to find other scum and PFKs than it is for Town to find them, which concerns me. Do you know something we don’t? Scum normally knows all it’s bedfellows and I don’t see how it helps PFK’s (Playing for Keeps roles I assume). Also It is expected that everyone will say “I am town aligned” whether they are or not. I don’t imagine anyone other than a lie detector will pay the statement any mind. It is almost as if you are **trying** to look like scum. I still think **Peeker** ’s behaviour is scummy, even considering his normal play style, so I am not changing votes here. That said, this pings heavily on my scumdar. ---
**Author:** ![Gryff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/919ad9/32.png) [@Gryff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gryff)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/425 "2009-09-29T08:42:41Z")
I suppose after all that I should say; **I am Town Aligned** ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/426 "2009-09-29T09:39:46Z")
> [@Gryff](#): > > Actually I think it gives a lie detector (if s/he exists) more options. It allows them to investigate anyone they think is suspicious (for other reasons) in the same manner as a cop, as opposed to them having to hunt for another more ambiguous statement to test. Nothing says that the lie detector has to only scan people who have stated “I am town”. > In summary it only gives the LD more options, so this is a strange thing to be arguing against. My understanding of the LD role is that it can only investigate those who have made explicit claims about their role or alignment. Otherwise, it would be a Cop. > [@](#): > > Do you know something we don’t? Scum normally knows all it’s bedfellows and I don’t see how it helps PFK’s (Playing for Keeps roles I assume). Also It is expected that everyone will say “I am town aligned” whether they are or not. I don’t imagine anyone other than a lie detector will pay the statement any mind. No, I’m making a guess based on the size of the game. If there’s only one killing group, with uncontrolled day endings we’ll be here until next spring. And my whole point is that everyone will NOT say their alignment–some will remain silent on it. If everyone states their alignment it will turn our hypothetical lie detector into another Cop and make us stronger, if that role exists. And if it doesn’t, well, it’s thread noise, but at least it won’t mislead a true investigative role. ---
**Author:** ![DaphneBlack](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daphneblack/32/5389_2.png) [@DaphneBlack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DaphneBlack)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/427 "2009-09-29T10:41:14Z")
The way the lie detector works, as far as I understand it, is he can investigate one statement made by a player each night. He either receives a reading of ‘true’, ‘false’ or ‘undetermined’ if he is so silly as to pick a non-declarative remark. So he is a kind of a cop: he finds liars, not necessarily role information. If there is a Lie Detector in this game, it may not work this way, of course. But it seems odd to me that you’ve made the assumption you appear to have. And I agree, the further remark about ‘scum finding other scum and PFKs’ is even more scummy than everything you’ve said before. In a game with multiple killing groups (which this game could be, since it is a big one) we should _want_ the scum to find each other and other PFK-like figures. Cross-kills are excellent for town in this kind of set up. I’m happy with my vote. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/428 "2009-09-29T11:08:48Z")
well, that helps a touch. i was trying to figure out what **db** was trying to say and there was a serious disconnect going on. so maybe there are more than one scum group, right? but if so, then as the rules stand either one would have to control the vote. so wouldn’t we want them to “know” each other so they can go about whacking on each other as opposed to townies (cross kills as mentioned above). also, since they would (i assume) already know who everyone is who is in there group (notwithstanding some late joiner by some mechanism) they, i don’t think, would give a rat’s ass about what alignment anyone else would claim. if you aren’t them then you’ve gotta go. also, i have never heard of a lie detector in my life. but on the off chance and since there is no downside. i am town aligned. oh yeh, baby, definitely town. having said that i seriously doubt that there are multiple scum teams and/or a lie detector as defined. to be frank i’d also be surprised if there were a miller. and just because there is most likely only one scum team i still don’t see this dragging on, as long as we keep the votes moving in some sort of reasonable manner. i mean, scum, a vig and an sk could add three bodies a night. toss in a lynch and the game lasts approximately 6 or so Days. that’s not terribly long as these things go. and, **fishy** it’s good to be back as well. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/429 "2009-09-29T11:55:37Z")
Alky Seltzer (2): Boozahol Octo, FBI jpeg (2): OAoW, TxtKitty Mot Scud(1): peekra The One and Only(1): Kronzor Pecear(5): Tom Scad, Jimminy Chitwick, Gruff, Nook, Ting Phish Cronos(1): Braid Dean The Dread Bean (5): amrussett, Abnormal Phase, Alka Celtser, DaphkneeBlack, Freudian Skip By all means, check your vote(and those against you) for accuracy. I’m pretty sure it is right, though. ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/430 "2009-09-29T12:19:52Z")
Before I go back over the latest posts, I few thoughts on the Leader role as it is definitely anti-town. If a town person is leader, it actually fixes one of the votes that can be placed 24 hours before the end. Consider that if pressure is applied to someone and they roleclaim just before the end, that is one vote that will not be shifted and one less we can move to find a different lynch victim. This means the scum has one less person to deal with if they need to swing the vote. If a scum or PFK is leader, it will hide their vote pattern and seeing as we unlikely to allow a vote tie at the end of Day, they are unlikely to be forced to make a decision. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/431 "2009-09-29T13:17:47Z")
> [@](#): > > If a scum or PFK is leader, it will hide their vote pattern and seeing as we unlikely to allow a vote tie at the end of Day, they are unlikely to be forced to make a decision. The point about a potential Scum leader is a good one, and is good reason to keep the Leader person rotated around a variety of different people, or confirmed folks when we eventually get some. But the most common kind of PFK is a serial killer, and I don’t think there’s any way to detect those via vote analysis in the first place. A serial killer wants to look like Town, and so has an incentive for whomever they think is most likely to be scum, just like any real Townie. And like a real Townie, they don’t have any special knowledge about who anyone is, and don’t have any known teammates they’ll specifically try to protect. So a given player in a town role would probably vote just the same way as that same player in a serial killer role. Also, something that occurs to me about the hypothetical Lie Detector: The possibility of a third party is a good reason to make explicit statements. In Lost, I was one of the ones who got investigated, and the statement he used was one that said “I know I’m not scum” (a statement which I just happened to make, not specifically one for the benefit of a lie detector). Now, as it happened, I really was Town, but if I were a third party, that statement would have still read as “true”, and Town would have been misled. Everyone making unambiguous statements that we’re Town spares a hypothetical lie detector from having to pick an ambiguous statement like that. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/432 "2009-09-29T15:03:34Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > No, I’m making a guess based on the size of the game. If there’s only one killing group, with uncontrolled day endings we’ll be here until next spring. And my whole point is that everyone will NOT say their alignment–some will remain silent on it. If everyone states their alignment it will turn our hypothetical lie detector into another Cop and make us stronger, if that role exists. And if it doesn’t, well, it’s thread noise, but at least it won’t mislead a true investigative role. I just don’t agree that people stating their townieness will mislead an investigator because it really doesn’t matter what an investigator turns up either he build a group of confirmed town or he takes out scum I don’t think there is a way to make their investigations pointless by dictating who they investigate. I also don’t think this is role fishing whish is what you originally voted Chronos for. But everyone jumping onto your train looks like scum trying to save Peeker. He was building a lot of steam and then all of a sudden you started picking up votes, for being pretty inconsistent. Peeker has gone pretty quiet since Drain picked up her first vote in #387, only two posts and one of them was making sure that Jimmy wasn’t upset with him. I think this adds more to the case against Peeker then him having a weird argument with Tom. But I’m still not sure and we’ve got a couple of days to see how it shakes out. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/433 "2009-09-29T15:21:12Z")
Those who have posted a statement on their alignment, in order (hopefully I didn’t miss any): Chronos Thing Fish Tom Scud AllWalker OAOW Alka Seltzer CIAS amrussell (the first to vote for me, on my “reluctance” to make the explicit claim) Normal Phase (again, voting for me on my “open reluctance” to claim town) DaphneBlack Freudian Slit jpei Gryff Big fat FOS to anyone who isn’t on this list. But there’s something else I wanted to point out. Here’s my first comment on the Lie Detector issue, emphasis mine: > [@](#): > > This lie-detector thing seems like it’s adding unnecessary noise. If it works by only being able to detect actual lies related to alignment, _it’ll only be helpful if we all participate in stating our alignment._ So clearly I think that EVERYONE should be claiming, and am not “reluctant” to do so. That was my last post of that day, and I didn’t post again until I came back from lunch the following day and saw a bandwagon beginning based on my “open reluctance” to claim town. Given my initial comment, I’m not sure how anyone can suggest that I was reluctant to claim town. Once it started happening, I was pretty clear on the fact that I thought the only way it would be helpful is if we ALL did it. I thought it was a big distraction and probably not very useful unless a limited role was in play AND we all gave them the power to be a Cop instead of a limited lie detector. In no way is that reluctance to claim town–in fact, it’s quite the opposite. Just because I did not claim town in that one post is not reason enough for those first two votes on me, IMO. I clearly had no problem doing so, and in fact was encouraging everyone else to do it too! ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/434 "2009-09-29T15:29:21Z")
And to add a bit–my initial post was directly after Tom Scud made his statement about town alignment, so pretty early in the whole shebang. Also, I missed Jimmy Chitwood, who should fall after CIAS in that list. So in between my first post on the issue and the first vote coming down for me for “reluctance,” only 5 other people claimed. By the time I came back to the thread to post again, Normal Phase had also claimed, making it six. I also noticed that Normal Phase said this in the very long post that ended up voting for me: > [@](#): > > I’m curious what you see as the downside to a simple “yeah I’m also Town” from everyone I wonder, did he even read the initial post I made before jumping on my bandwagon? ---
**Author:** ![ColdPhoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@ColdPhoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ColdPhoenix)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/435 "2009-09-29T15:32:52Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Big fat FOS to anyone who isn’t on this list. But there’s something else I wanted to point out. I had a look and couldn’t see where you claimed allignment. Following your recommendation: **Vote Drain Bead** Also, for the record, **I am town.** ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/436 "2009-09-29T15:35:07Z")
And for having the nads to quote a post in which I said that I think everyone should claim town, and then asking me why I have a problem with everyone claiming town in order to jump on my bandwagon, I’m gonna… **unvote Chronos** **vote Normal Phase** ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/437 "2009-09-29T15:35:30Z")
I think it’s silly to FOS anyone not on that list. I mean, we don’t even know that there is this lie detector thing. It’s like just making something up and being all huffy that no one else cares about it. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/438 "2009-09-29T15:39:47Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I think it’s silly to FOS anyone not on that list. I mean, we don’t even know that there is this lie detector thing. It’s like just making something up and being all huffy that no one else cares about it. Which is why I initially called it noise. And it has created a gigantic distraction, and is causing you to mislynch. Fantastic idea, seeing as it’s a role that I’ve consistently stated is probably not even in the game. > [@ColdPhoenix](#): > > I had a look and couldn’t see where you claimed allignment. Following your recommendation: > > **]Vote Drain Bead** > > Also, for the record, **I am town.** [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11605960&postcount=395](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11605960&postcount=395) Honestly. Why would I take the time and effort to say all this if I hadn’t claimed? That’s just silly, and so is your vote here. I’m beginning to think that people are not even reading my posts, just voting willy-nilly based on what other people say about them. ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/439 "2009-09-29T15:40:13Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > But everyone jumping onto your train looks like scum trying to save Peeker. He was building a lot of steam and then all of a sudden you started picking up votes, for being pretty inconsistent. Peeker has gone pretty quiet since Drain picked up her first vote in #387, only two posts and one of them was making sure that Jimmy wasn’t upset with him. I think this adds more to the case against Peeker then him having a weird argument with Tom. But I’m still not sure and we’ve got a couple of days to see how it shakes out. Interesting theory - I had barely noticed **peeker** going quiet amongst all the other activity going on. Could be something to that. ---
**Author:** ![AllWalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@AllWalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AllWalker)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/440 "2009-09-29T15:47:59Z")
> [@ColdPhoenix](#): > > I had a look and couldn’t see where you claimed allignment. Following your recommendation: > > **[COLOR]Vote Drain Bead[/COLOR]** > > Also, for the record, **I am town.** Oh yeah, I meant to pick on this - you can’t vote for someone else not claiming Town and then hurriedly claim Town in the same post. I know you are at a different timezone to most of us, but that just doesn’t look right. But then, **Drain Bead** did say FOS to everyone who did not claim Town, which is odd in the face of saying that the Lie Detector discussion is just a giant distraction. Either we should forget the whole thing or insist on universal declarations of Towniness, but really there probably is no Lie Detector anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938.md?page=23)