# Screamers Mafia **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [September 21, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938 "2009-09-21T13:16:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/541 "2009-09-30T20:38:01Z")
Oh, I’d also really like to know what the heck Peeker meant by that “A doctor” emphasis. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/542 "2009-09-30T20:38:25Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > (quotes bleached) > > Something happened between 2:34 and 2:36 AM to make you change your mind? Really? :dubious: > > **vote Boozy** Meh, I was tired, and I read a different post while continuing to catch up. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/543 "2009-09-30T20:39:26Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Oh, I’d also really like to know what the heck Peeker meant by that “A doctor” emphasis. Peeker was asserting that there was another doctor, who would be coming out of the woodwork to counterclaim him. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/544 "2009-09-30T20:40:58Z")
> [@GuiriEnEspana](#): > > Thanks for the introduction and thanks everyone for having me! Welcome! > [@](#): > > (Too much humor?) Nah, we all have great senses of humor here. Except peeker. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/545 "2009-09-30T20:42:05Z")
On doctors and scum doctors: note that both Mahaloth and Pedescribe have recently run games with scum doctor roles. One of which basically won the game for scum. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/546 "2009-09-30T20:55:18Z")
Quoth **Drain Bead** : > [@](#): > > What would you say to those who contend that OAOW has the best knowledge of whether or not full disclosure would be pro-Town? I still haven’t seen an example of how full disclosure could hurt Town. The Scum would find out he has a special role? They already know that. What other problems would there be? ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/547 "2009-09-30T21:03:32Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Quoth **Drain Bead** :I still haven’t seen an example of how full disclosure could hurt Town. The Scum would find out he has a special role? They already know that. What other problems would there be? I suppose that depends entirely on the details of the special role. And the person who knows best as to whether full disclosure of those details would help or hurt is **OAOW**. I could speculate on examples of roles where Town might be harmed by knowing all the details, but that seems like a silly waste of time when it would be just as meaningful for you to acknowledge that the possibility exists that **OAOW** is a better judge of this than any of us. (OTOH, to those who are suggesting that the mods would not give scum a high-profile role right off the bat…I have one word for that…Gatman. Of course, that was more of a Gastard Mod game than this was advertised to be, that’s for certain!) ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/548 "2009-09-30T21:47:05Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > Meh, I was tired, and I read a different post while continuing to catch up. See, I just have a hard time buying that you read Tom’s post, thought about it, and decided to change votes in the space of two minutes. That time frame seems much less suggestive of thinking “who is making the most well reasoned case?” and more consonant with “who can I get lynched who isn’t one of my scumbuddies?” It’s far from an iron-clad case, but I think it’s the most suspicious behavior I’ve identified yet. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/549 "2009-09-30T21:48:44Z")
Good God, over 24 hours left in Day One and we’re onto Page Twelve. SDMB Mafia is not for the faint of heart! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/550 "2009-09-30T22:05:28Z")
To be fair, that also includes the sign-ups and other pre-game miscellania, and this first Day is longer than future Days are expected to be. Back on topic, while it’s certainly true that **Wanderers** is the best judge of whether he’s acting in Town’s best interest, isn’t that also true of everyone? I mean, **jpei** says that his abstention from the Leader vote was for the benefit of Town, and **peeker** says that his attacks on **Tom** was for the benefit of Town, and so on. If a person knows they’re Town, then they also know that their motivation is to help Town, but the rest of us don’t know that, and we have to judge, on our own and based on our own limited knowledge, whether we think what someone is doing is actually pro-Town or not. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/551 "2009-09-30T22:06:17Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > See, I just have a hard time buying that you read Tom’s post, thought about it, and decided to change votes in the space of two minutes. That time frame seems much less suggestive of thinking “who is making the most well reasoned case?” and more consonant with “who can I get lynched who isn’t one of my scumbuddies?” > > It’s far from an iron-clad case, but I think it’s the most suspicious behavior I’ve identified yet. Fair enough. What I said was true, but if I weren’t me, I’d do the same thing you’re doing. Want even more wild and crazy Squid switcheroo? I’m gonna vote for **peeker**. Why? Dude was on the fence of being lynched (I don’t think he actually ever took the vote lead, he was building up a head of steam), and claimed Doc. Claiming Doc a great move for scum worried that they’re about to get lynched: usually, the real Doc stays silent, and you get several days of unlynchability, as you’re not required to reveal any information like you would with claiming Cop. Worst case scenario, the real Doc comes out and points a finger at you, Town lynches you because it makes more sense that real scum wouldn’t do a one for one trade with a Doc, and now you’ve just isolated the Doc. He’s even more likely to self-protect, and therefore you’ve neutralize him because you don’t have to worry about stumbling into his protection. What **peeker** did was taking option A, while attempting to forestall an eventual counterclaim. He preps us for the counterclaim, and then says “See guys, I told you this would happen! I’m still ‘confirmed’!” Great move for scum, if it works. **unvote: Oredigger vote: peeker** ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/552 "2009-09-30T22:27:35Z")
jpeg (2): OAoW, TxtKitty Mot Scud(1): peekra The One and Only(1): Da’Chronic Pecear(3): Gruff, Nook, Oredigger, Boozy The Dread Bean (4): amrussett, Abnormal Phase, Freudian Skit, UPSDriver Borerigger(2): Scuddy, Brainbleed Boozy(1): Motscud ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/553 "2009-09-30T22:41:47Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > I poked at AllWalker’s other posts to see if anything scummy fell out, and nothing did. His participation in the peeker bandwagon looks the least suspicious of the bunch, IMO; he was questioning peeker’s reasoning before I placed my vote. Something was bugging me and I went back and looked, and sure enough: > [@AllWalker](#): > > Let me say this: in Lost Mafia I was a lie detector, and hunting for a player remarking on their own alignment was difficult. Plus, I never had much choice as to who I investigated. I see no harm in saying > > **I am Town aligned** > > whether or not there is a lie detector. Anyone care to parse out the truth-value of the sentence “I see no harm in saying I am Town aligned whether or not there is a lie detector.” if it is said by a scum? I think it could turn out true, if he says it in a way that it can’t be separated out into its own sentence. It interests me because AllWalker is generally a careful poster, and has gone to some lengths to hide breadcrumbs in previous games. And as he mentions has previously played a lie detector & thus would have thought a lot about this role. **unvote** **vote AllWalker** ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/554 "2009-09-30T22:43:28Z")
**Oredigger** has unvoted **peeker** ; nevertheless, that puts our claimed doc within one vote of the lead. I don’t think that’s the best play. On the one hand, I don’t think **peeker** is a doc. On the other hand, risk/rewardwise, I’m not convinced rolling the dice on that (considering the lack of anything approaching a smoking gun, even if the circumstantial indications are convincing) is a good idea on Day 1. On, uh, the foot, though, I think this much activity on day 1 bodes well down the line. On the other foot, I haven’t the faintest idea where I want to throw my vote yet and it’s getting more and more wide open. I’m still very ambivalent about the case against **DB**. I’m checking out all the other cases now. **Chronos** , yes, it’s true in every case that “we have to judge, on our own and based on our own limited knowledge,” what every other player’s motivations are. That is of course the very definition of subjectivity, however, and what you are claiming is an objectively anti-town stance by **OaOW**. Stripped of the argument that it’s the one objective truth of everyone’s intentions, we’re back to the question of what our judgment is of **OaOW** ’s actions. My personal feeling is that it was handled properly – again, it seems clear to me that if there was a unanimous cry for a full reveal, that’s what we’d have gotten. There wasn’t, though, which is what makes your certainty a little curious to me. ---
**Author:** ![GuiriEnEspana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bc79bd/32.png) [@GuiriEnEspana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuiriEnEspana)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/555 "2009-09-30T22:56:36Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > jpeg (2): OAoW, TxtKitty > Mot Scud(1): peekra > The One and Only(1): Da’Chronic > Pecear(3): Gruff, Nook, Oredigger, Boozy > The Dread Bean (4): amrussett, Abnormal Phase, Freudian Skit, UPSDriver > Borerigger(2): Scuddy, Brainbleed > Boozy(1): Motscud Could a Mod kindly change “Nook” to whatever variation on GuiriEnEspaña is preferred? My vote stays with Peeker tonight. Vote Peeker ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/556 "2009-09-30T23:15:28Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Something was bugging me and I went back and looked, and sure enough: > > Anyone care to parse out the truth-value of the sentence > > “I see no harm in saying I am Town aligned whether or not there is a lie detector.” > > if it is said by a scum? I think it could turn out true, if he says it in a way that it can’t be separated out into its own sentence. > > It interests me because AllWalker is generally a careful poster, and has gone to some lengths to hide breadcrumbs in previous games. And as he mentions has previously played a lie detector & thus would have thought a lot about this role. I actually addressed this later, **Tom** , and **AllWalker** clarified. I thought the same thing you did when I saw it–that sentence could have been parsed two different ways, so I called him on it and he made the actual statement without ambiguity. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/557 "2009-09-30T23:39:56Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > I actually addressed this later, **Tom** , and **AllWalker** clarified. I thought the same thing you did when I saw it–that sentence could have been parsed two different ways, so I called him on it and he made the actual statement without ambiguity. Actually, that was Alka Seltzer. > [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > In case there is any confusion. > > **I am town aligned.** ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/558 "2009-09-30T23:43:40Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Actually, that was Alka Seltzer. Damned A-names! Nice catch. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/559 "2009-09-30T23:48:20Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > To be fair, that also includes the sign-ups and other pre-game miscellania, and this first Day is longer than future Days are expected to be. > > Back on topic, while it’s certainly true that **Wanderers** is the best judge of whether he’s acting in Town’s best interest, isn’t that also true of everyone? I mean, **jpei** says that his abstention from the Leader vote was for the benefit of Town, and **peeker** says that his attacks on **Tom** was for the benefit of Town, and so on. If a person knows they’re Town, then they also know that their motivation is to help Town, but the rest of us don’t know that, and we have to judge, on our own and based on our own limited knowledge, whether we think what someone is doing is actually pro-Town or not. So what this boils down to is that you don’t trust anyone’s analysis of what’s best for Town, and you want to judge for yourself. But you seem to be creating a dilemma here. If **OAOW** is scum, won’t he just make up some sort of full claim if pressured enough? And if he’s Town, then clearly it’s a bad thing if he’s pressured by too many votes to reveal something he doesn’t want to. So there’s really no win here–either we’re getting false info, or we’ll get the true info, which will potentially benefit scum more than us. I’m just really not getting your bullheaded insistence on a full reveal here. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938/560 "2009-09-30T23:58:04Z")
> [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](#): > > **peeker** is going to get me killed for talking to you too much, but an additional datapoint about **OreDigger** is the fact that he took the fairly distinctive approach of pushing **OaOW** to claim (in post 250). > > Anyway. **peeker** , I’m sure you’re sick of getting prodded by me, but can you explain why a pro-town Doc who was given the secret knowledge that there were multiple docs would think it in town’s best interest to reveal that secret info? I can think of a sparkling scum motivation to drop that nugget, but I’m not so sure about how it could help town. i never said that. i said “a”. a can be a group of one. a can be a group of more than one. i’m sure scum would love to know if there is more than one doc. well for them it is all supposition. i am “a” doctor. claiming 101: fcs don’t make it any easier on the folks that drive the claim by giving out any more information than is absolutely necessary. btw, **jimmy** if you are going to fish, fcs, bait the hook. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screamers-mafia/510938.md?page=29)