# Screaming 15-Year-Old Girl Pepper Sprayed **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 5, 2007, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-15-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed/421699 "2007-10-05T22:53:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-15-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed/421699/221 "2007-10-09T09:23:57Z")
[QUOTE=Lakai] The younger a child gets, the more likely it is that he or she isn’t capable of understanding right from wrong. If the child isn’t capable, then force becomes useless and immoral. [/QUOTE] I have to strongly disagree with this. Her age doesn’t matter, but her physical strength certainly does. Imagine if you will a severely mentally ill 13 year-old boy who is also 5’ 8" and 140 lbs. By any legal standard, he may have no understanding of right and wrong, but if he poses a physical danger to himself or the officer, the officer can certainly use force to restrain him. Even a skinny 15 year-old girl can inflict a fair amount of injury. Age is only relevant in that it corresponds roughly to size and not going upside an out-of-control five-year old isn’t a more moral decision - it’s just that violent restraint is less necessary since an adult can physically control the kid more easily. Even then, if the five year-old is sufficiently determined to bite and scratch, I can imagine pepper spray coming into play, with the same tongue-clucking Monday-morning analysis. I get no impression that the officer in this instance was seeking to inflict punishment or teach her a lesson, which I admit would be a waste of time, but rather to bring the teen under control without injuring her or letting her injure him. I firmly stand by my support of his actions. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-15-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed/421699/222 "2007-10-09T11:34:35Z")
[QUOTE=Honesty] I’m sorry, but I’m not getting what you’re trying to illustrate here. I’ve asked to see some scientific data to support the conclusion that the officer’s punch was somehow an unconscious reflex or “reaction”. [/QUOTE] You want evidence that when something bites people they smack it reflexively? Billions of dead mosquitos aren’t proof enough? ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 11:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-15-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed/421699/223 "2007-10-09T11:38:07Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] You want evidence that when something bites people they smack it reflexively? Billions of dead mosquitos aren’t proof enough? [/QUOTE] LOL… How simple and succinct ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-15-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed/421699/224 "2007-10-09T13:02:10Z")
[QUOTE=Honesty] Oh geez :smack:. So in other words, you’re saying that the police officer may suffer from a psychiatric disorder that prevents him from making rational decisions on the job? And that his disorder makes it OK to punch a kid in the face? Do you extend this logic to other jobs of importance like judges, parole officers, or child advocates? This is _precisely_ why I believe federal government need to force States to stop arming these slathering, GED-holding ingrates with guns. If this officer was in permanent fight-or-flight mode due to stress then he should have called for backup, saw a mental health professional, or perhaps took a break from the force. If he is suffering from any type of mental health problem, he should not be on the streets with a gun. Period. - Honesty [/QUOTE] Apparently one must explain the basic concept of debate to you. You initially pulled a nitpick out to try and slither out of the basic thrust of the debate. You then tried a more general tactic, stating that all fight response was conscious, and provided somewhat relevant cites on nerve response. My post illustrated a simple and very common condition that demonstrated that fight response is unconscious, and initially possibly beyond any control. The fact that he paused after the punch, thought for a half second, and got the spray shows he was NOW actively thinking about his next move. THAT punch was fully justified. For what it’s worth, if he had punched her again I might be raising my eyebrow a bit, but a single, and despite your creative wording, light punch is hardly disproportionate force to the situation. A person with my condition would have kept punching her until she was an unconscious bloody mess, thus rendering her a “non threat”. Nor is the condition considered a type of clinical mental illness. It is a light disorder that is not considered serious enough for therapy or drug controls. I only posted about it to illustrate the concept of unconscious reaction under stress. ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-15-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed/421699/225 "2007-10-09T13:21:24Z")
Edit window expired) Further: I am not swayed one bit by a sympathetic response to the girl. Yes she is young. Yes she is part of the most coddled generation ever. Yes, we still maintain the cultural meme that it’s bad to hit women and okay for men to fight. The following are also true: He asked her over 15 times clearly to comply with a simple command, and she refused. He asked at least 4 times more and was halted or broken off by her irrational screaming and flailing. He asked her several times not to struggle as she was going to hurt herself, and she continued to squirm and wrench around. She bit him. She deliberately attempted to wrench away from him on at least three occasions. 15 Is NOT a child despite our arbitrary usage of the word to describe any minor. In males, a reasonably advanced 15 year-old may be over 6 ft tall and 180 lbs. That is bigger than a lot of adults. Women mature faster, usually obtaining something close to their adult size by this point. You have to deal on two levels with teens. your mind can reason with a “teen”, your body has to deal with a young adult who lacks the full measure of emotional self control that an older adult has. That means doing what it takes to quickly neutralize whatever physical threat they may pose. Cops are trained to make that evaluation and execute it. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-15-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed/421699/226 "2007-10-09T13:44:52Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] You want evidence that when something bites people they smack it reflexively? Billions of dead mosquitos aren’t proof enough? [/QUOTE] I’ve addressed this in post #170. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-15-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed/421699/227 "2007-10-09T13:56:15Z")
[QUOTE=Honesty] I’ve addressed this in post #170. - Honesty [/QUOTE] Hardly. In response to a question about _brushing_, you linked to a Wiki article about _scratching_. I’m talking about \*hitting \*something that _bites_. People reflexively hit at mosquitos all the time when they are bitten. ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-15-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed/421699/228 "2007-10-09T14:41:49Z")
[QUOTE=Acid Lamp] Apparently one must explain the basic concept of debate to you. You initially pulled a nitpick out to try and slither out of the basic thrust of the debate. You then tried a more general tactic, stating that all fight response was conscious, and provided somewhat relevant cites on nerve response. [/quote] Let me take a moment to sum up my points: 1. The kid was wrong for biting the police officer. 2. The cop was wrong for hitting her. In addition of being the adult in the situation he the authoratiative figure. He acted in a manner that was unprofessional, temperamental, and unbefitting a police officer. 3. I am cognizant of the fact that she is a kid, was probably scared, and probably confused. While I believe she was wrong, her actions seem perfectly inline in what a scared, confused kid would do in that situation. Therefore, I put most of the blame on the adult. 4. I strongly believe a competent police officer would have been able to mitigate the situation. I do not believe that this kid’s behavior, while erratic, presented such an implacable situation that could have only been diffused through calculated, physical violence. 5. While I may be indulging in “pendantry” there is no proof of a “reflex” or “unconscious reaction” took place. Indeed, I have provided cites and colorful pictures indicating that the reflexive response to a painful stimulus is to pull the affected limb away from the source of pain. Not only does the science back me up on this, but the video in the OP does as well - the officer pulled his right arm away when she bit. 6. I was very saddened (and disappointed) to see comments in the OP’s link using deragotory language and calling for this girl to be hung with a rope. I am also saddened that mentioning this on thread is a form of “playing the race card” or “race-baiting”; when, in reality, these comments were posted in the OP’s link along with the video and seem fully relevant to a nuanced discussion of whether race was a factor. 7. Finally, I find the officer’s handling of the situation deeply troubling. Before this video, I would have liked to think that if a cop saw a dissheveled minor walking down a road with a bag of clothes, the first, human reaction would have been of concern - “Hello Miss, are you ok?” or even a “It’s past curfew, is there any reason you’re out so late?”. Again, this goes back to being the competent adult in a situation and possessing the ability able to approach a potentially hazardous situation with insight, common sense, and humility. > [@](#): > > A person with my condition would have kept punching her until she was an unconscious bloody mess, thus rendering her a “non threat”. Nor is the condition considered a type of clinical mental illness. It is a light disorder that is not considered serious enough for therapy or drug controls. That makes no sense to me. You’re saying on one hand that your condition would have caused you to keep attacking the girl until she slipped into unconsciousness. On the other, this is a “light disorder” and not considered serious enough for psychotherapy or the prescription of psychotropic medication? > [@](#): > > I only posted about it to illustrate the concept of unconscious reaction under stress. And I’ve asked for solid, controlled data that illustrates this is the normal response after being subjected to a painful stimulus. Not for anecdotes. Not for youtube videos. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Honesty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/f04885/32.png) [@Honesty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Honesty)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-15-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed/421699/229 "2007-10-09T14:44:17Z")
[QUOTE=Contrapuntal] Hardly. In response to a question about _brushing_, you linked to a Wiki article about _scratching_. I’m talking about \*hitting \*something that _bites_. People reflexively hit at mosquitos all the time when they are bitten. [/QUOTE] We’re talking about the same mechanism. - Honesty ---
**Author:** ![Acid\_Lamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Acid\_Lamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acid_Lamp)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-15-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed/421699/230 "2007-10-09T15:05:41Z")
[QUOTE=Honesty] That makes no sense to me. You’re saying on one hand that your condition would have caused you to keep attacking the girl until she slipped into unconsciousness. On the other, this is a “light disorder” and not considered serious enough for psychotherapy or the prescription of psychotropic medication? - Honesty [/QUOTE] In modern society we are rarely placed into situations where one is touched in a violent manner. Hence the chances of me harming anyone are minimal. It is a reactionary, not a initiatory response. It is triggered by a perception of a pending violent altercation. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-15-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed/421699/231 "2007-10-09T15:06:28Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. The cop was wrong for hitting her. In addition of being the adult in the situation he the authoratiative figure. He acted in a manner that was unprofessional, temperamental, and unbefitting a police officer. You know that “unbefitting a police officer” is a technical term just like “reflex”, right? And that this officer’s superiors don’t think he was guilty of any such thing? So I’m going to have to ask you for a cite right back. In what way, in what jurisdiction, was his conduct “unbefitting a police officer”? > [@](#): > > 1. I strongly believe a competent police officer would have been able to mitigate the situation. I do not believe that this kid’s behavior, while erratic, presented such an implacable situation that could have only been diffused through calculated, physical violence. Okay, SO WHAT SHOULD HE HAVE DONE DIFFERENTLY? Sorry for shouting, but why is this going unanswered? “Call for backup” is not an answer - what should he have done with her WHILE he called for backup, and WHILE he was waiting for help to arrive? > [@](#): > > 1. I was very saddened (and disappointed) to see comments in the OP’s link using deragotory language and calling for this girl to be hung with a rope. I am also saddened that mentioning this on thread is a form of “playing the race card” or “race-baiting”; when, in reality, these comments were posted in the OP’s link along with the video and seem fully relevant to a nuanced discussion of whether race was a factor. There, perhaps. Why here? > [@](#): > > 1. Finally, I find the officer’s handling of the situation deeply troubling. Before this video, I would have liked to think that if a cop saw a dissheveled minor walking down a road with a bag of clothes, the first, human reaction would have been of concern - “Hello Miss, are you ok?” or even a “It’s past curfew, is there any reason you’re out so late?”. Again, this goes back to being the competent adult in a situation and possessing the ability able to approach a potentially hazardous situation with insight, common sense, and humility. What evidence do you have that this didn’t happen? We saw the end of the story, not the beginning. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-15-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed/421699/232 "2007-10-09T15:11:41Z")
[QUOTE=Honesty] Let me take a moment to sum up my points: 1. The kid was wrong for biting the police officer. [/quote] The one shining bit of rationality you’ve displayed in this thread. > [@](#): > > 1. The cop was wrong for hitting her. No he wasn’t. It wasn’t on purpose and even if it were, it’s acceptable to hit someone if they start injuring you. > [@](#): > > In addition of being the adult in the situation he the authoratiative figure. He acted in a manner that was unprofessional, temperamental, and unbefitting a police officer. No he didn’t. You’re armchair quarterbacking is offensive and downright silly. You obviously have never wrestled or engaged in any sort of physical confrontation in your entire life, your opinion is worthless on this subject. > [@](#): > > 1. I am cognizant of the fact that she is a kid, was probably scared, and probably confused. While I believe she was wrong, her actions seem perfectly inline in what a scared, confused kid would do in that situation. Therefore, I put most of the blame on the adult. That’s insane. Her actions are not acceptable. Her actions are not normal. Her actions required ever increasing force to get her cuffed. > [@](#): > > 1. I strongly believe a competent police officer would have been able to mitigate the situation. I do not believe that this kid’s behavior, while erratic, presented such an implacable situation that could have only been diffused through calculated, physical violence. You are perhaps watching a different video than the rest of us. > [@](#): > > 1. While I may be indulging in “pendantry” there is no proof of a “reflex” or “unconscious reaction” took place. The speed at which it happened suggest unconscious reaction. Also there is no proof that he did it on purpose. If he hit her with all his strength, she’d be bleeding from her ears. > [@](#): > > Indeed, I have provided cites and colorful pictures indicating that the reflexive response to a painful stimulus is to pull the affected limb away from the source of pain. Not only does the science back me up on this, but the video in the OP does as well - the officer pulled his right arm away when she bit. You need to get up from your computer chair and take a karate class. Actually wrestle and spar with someone and you’ll see that people act reflexively. That you can’t understand that very simple and grounded in reality concept shows you have no reason to weigh in on this. I don’t ask a Masai hunter how to change the oil in my Chevy Astrovan. Why should someone so unfamiliar with physical altercations as to think that every wiggle and prod in a wrestling match is done with malice of forethought be taken seriously? > [@](#): > > 1. I was very saddened (and disappointed) to see comments in the OP’s link using deragotory language and calling for this girl to be hung with a rope. I am also saddened that mentioning this on thread is a form of “playing the race card” or “race-baiting”; when, in reality, these comments were posted in the OP’s link along with the video and seem fully relevant to a nuanced discussion of whether race was a factor. You are race bating, because your positon has no merit. The comments on the site that’s hosting the video are irrelevant for our discussion here. You’re just trying to inflame the issue. > [@](#): > > 1. Finally, I find the officer’s handling of the situation deeply troubling. I find your irrational view of the video troubling. > [@](#): > > Before this video, I would have liked to think that if a cop saw a dissheveled minor walking down a road with a bag of clothes, the first, human reaction would have been of concern - “Hello Miss, are you ok?” or even a “It’s past curfew, is there any reason you’re out so late?”. Really, do you think he dived on her and started the video. He questioned her before the video started. Have you even read about the incident? > [@](#): > > Again, this goes back to being the competent adult in a situation and possessing the ability able to approach a potentially hazardous situation with insight, common sense, and humility. Which you base on nothing but your skewed view of the situation. > [@](#): > > That makes no sense to me. You’re saying on one hand that your condition would have caused you to keep attacking the girl until she slipped into unconsciousness. On the other, this is a “light disorder” and not considered serious enough for psychotherapy or the prescription of psychotropic medication? Irrelevant rambling. > [@](#): > > And I’ve asked for solid, controlled data that illustrates this is the normal response after being subjected to a painful stimulus. Not for anecdotes. Not for youtube videos. You are apparently willfully ignorant, so I don’t know what to say. > [@](#): > > - Honesty Also, you don’t have to sign your posts. ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-15-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed/421699/233 "2007-10-09T15:17:20Z")
**Honesty** , what do you think the cop should have done? He repeatedly asked her to cooperate. Was he just supposed to say “ok, you don’t want to cooperate, you can go”? I don’t think any of us want to see pepper spray used on a teenager, but what would you have had him do under the circumstances? ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-15-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed/421699/234 "2007-10-09T15:35:28Z")
[QUOTE=SnakesCatLady] **Honesty** , what do you think the cop should have done? He repeatedly asked her to cooperate. Was he just supposed to say “ok, you don’t want to cooperate, you can go”? I don’t think any of us want to see pepper spray used on a teenager, but what would you have had him do under the circumstances? [/QUOTE] Well, you weren’t talking to me, but, I would have been fine with the pepper spray. Not with the punch. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-15-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed/421699/235 "2007-10-09T15:42:17Z")
[QUOTE=Honesty] We’re talking about the same mechanism. - Honesty [/QUOTE] I have no idea what \*you \*are talking about. \*I’m \*talking about \*feeling \*pain and \*\*reflexively \*\*smacking at it. Your cite describes \*feeling \*an itch and \*\*reflexively \*\*scratching it. It was cited in response to \*seeing \*a bug and **reflexively** brushing it away. Why do you assert that they are all the same mechanism? Because they are all reflexes? Feeling something and seeing something are the same? Is closing your eye when an object approaches the same mechanism? It really does seem a bit silly to argue that slapping at a sudden pain is a function of conscious thought, and to require peer reviewed articles to prove the opposite. It is also silly to argue that striking back when struck is necessarily not a reflex. As the poster above noted, anyone who has wrestled, or boxed, or engaged in any contact sports knows that not to be the case. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-15-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed/421699/236 "2007-10-09T15:49:25Z")
[QUOTE=Nzinga, Seated] Well, you weren’t talking to me, but, I would have been fine with the pepper spray. Not with the punch. [/QUOTE] Assume that the punch was on purpose, (I would say it wasn’t) do you think it’s okay to lightly punch someone who’s attempting to bite you. Something which can draw blood, transmit terrible diseases, tear tendons, and on top of that hurts. Do you think it’s acceptable to hit someone who’s doing this to you? What if she stabbed him in the leg with a pen knife? All of this ignores the pretty obvious fact that he didn’t do it on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-15-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed/421699/237 "2007-10-09T15:59:12Z")
[QUOTE=Lobohan] Assume that the punch was on purpose, (I would say it wasn’t) do you think it’s okay to lightly punch someone who’s attempting to bite you. Something which can draw blood, transmit terrible diseases, tear tendons, and on top of that hurts. Do you think it’s acceptable to hit someone who’s doing this to you? What if she stabbed him in the leg with a pen knife? All of this ignores the pretty obvious fact that he didn’t do it on purpose. [/QUOTE] I have to admit that I am ignorant of the law, so I better back out of this discussion right now. I will let this be my last comment on the topic: I don’t think it is ok for me to punch a 15 year old girl in the face if she’s biting me. I don’t like the idea that I would handle it that way, especially if I am the stronger, trained, authoritarian, armed one, with full use of pepper spray. I don’t like to consider that I would punch the girl in the face. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-15-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed/421699/238 "2007-10-09T16:29:35Z")
I’ve trained in and taught hand-to-hand, including with police officers. I was going to recommend that the officer in the video should have taken the girl to the ground and flattened her out with his superior weight, instead of dragging her into camera range, but given the level of hysterics generated by what he did do, I hate to imagine how the reaction would have gone if they had only their imaginations to go on. Spoiled teen-ager pitches a hissy fit upon being arrested. In the course of violently resisting arrest, she bites the officer. Said officer smacks her one upside the head in an attempt to subdue her and get her cuffed, pauses, sees that the strike did not have the desired effect, and then uses pepper spray. The instant her resistance ends, so does his use of force. If there’s a problem here, I don’t see it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Fight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/90ced4/32.png) [@Cat\_Fight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Fight)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-15-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed/421699/239 "2007-10-09T16:47:17Z")
I’m a little suprised by all these ‘spoiled teens’ comments. Seriously? Spoiled? I haven’t read much beyond the original article, but I don’t remember her cruising around in her SUV with that sack of clothing. Are we so naive as to assume that everyone is taught to respect the police and submit to them whatever the case? And that they, in turn, treat everyone the same, regardless of race or socioeconomic status? While I found his outburst pretty scary, even more scary than hers (the biting, which reminded me of a trapped animal), I don’t think he went ‘too far.’ I have much respect for police officers, but I’ve also never had a family member in prison and I’ve never been harassed unnecessarily or treated unfairly by the law. I imagine if my only contact with the PD had been negative and my dad was in jail, and I’d never been given a ‘Police Man is Your Friend’ coloring book in school, I might think quite differently. My first instinct might be to run. I am genuinely curious-- is it really that hard to restrain a 100 lb person? Aren’t there Aikido moves or anything similar that can be used, or will flailing and struggling render them useless? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2007, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-15-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed/421699/240 "2007-10-09T16:55:58Z")
[QUOTE=Cat Fight] I am genuinely curious-- is it really that hard to restrain a 100 lb person? Aren’t there Aikido moves or anything similar that can be used, or will flailing and struggling render them useless? [/QUOTE] He could have easily cuffed her, but he was worried he’d break her arm. She’s strong enough to force him to use great force to overcome her. If he’d torn some tendons in her arm or dislocated her shoulder she’d be a lot worse off. Also, I’d say she’s spoiled because she threw a stupid hysterical tantrum instead of accepting responsibility for committing a crime. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-15-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed/421699.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-15-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed/421699.md?page=13)