# Screaming and heckling are not problems on college campuses **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 9, 2017, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-and-heckling-are-not-problems-on-college-campuses/786175 "2017-05-09T02:17:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-and-heckling-are-not-problems-on-college-campuses/786175/141 "2017-05-12T15:12:43Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Like I said, I understand your embarrassment at the sight of the original spot of the Free Speech Movement rioting to deny other students their opportunity to present and discuss any point of view besides political correctness. “Understand” in the sense of “snicker at”. > > Regards, > Shodan If there’s a political movement that doesn’t have embarrassing, radical fringes, I’ve never seen it. I don’t judge all right-wingers by the neo-Nazis and Dominionists, and you shouldn’t judge all left-wingers by these anti-speech clowns. Just for the record. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-and-heckling-are-not-problems-on-college-campuses/786175/142 "2017-05-12T16:07:17Z")
How many people remember a 1970s free speech case involving William Shockley? Shockley was a Nobel Prize-winning physicist who later in life came down with a bad case of Nobel Disease (the tendency among some celebrated scientists to go outside their fields of expertise and espouse dubious to downright ludicrous beliefs). Shockley became interested (or obsessed) with the idea that blacks had inferior intelligence based on genetics. At least one of his campus appearances (at Yale) was marked by students shouting him down. The administration countered by announcing [the suspension of a dozen students](http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1974/5/13/yale-suspends-11-for-halting-debate/) and placing them on probation when they returned. \*"A Yale spokesman said the executive committee considered the 12 students to be the leaders of the disruption. The actions of the committee are subject to review by the Yale Corporation. In suspending the students, the executive committee said the students’ actions placed them “outside the voluntary association of persons dedicated to the free expression of all views.”\* What a revolutionary idea. Too bad colleges and universities don’t seem to be exhibiting the same spine currently.\* \*The University of Chicago is an exception. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2017, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-and-heckling-are-not-problems-on-college-campuses/786175/143 "2017-05-12T22:00:00Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > _This._ > > Just to pick a random example… Let’s say your college invited Andrew Wakefield to host a talk on the dangers of the MMR vaccine. What “rational debate” can be had there? Who, exactly, walks away from that exchange more well-informed? Andrew Wakefield is a charlatan, he _knows_ he’s a charlatan, and a goodly portion of his schtick is, ironically, attempting to innoculate people against good evidence. The best way to address a talk like this? Disinvitation, loud protests if that fails. Not only do you know what goes on in peoples’ minds but you are comfortable determining what ideas should be allowed in the public sphere? The caricature would be comical if it weren’t so frighteningly ubiquitous among so-called liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-and-heckling-are-not-problems-on-college-campuses/786175/144 "2017-05-13T01:38:40Z")
[https://www.facebook.com/eric.bostrom.37/videos/vb.100003518482470/1237999372994000/?type=2&theater](https://www.facebook.com/eric.bostrom.37/videos/vb.100003518482470/1237999372994000/?type=2&theater) ROTFLMAO. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-and-heckling-are-not-problems-on-college-campuses/786175/145 "2017-05-13T06:10:23Z")
In another video, someone who holds a sign that merely just reads, [“The right to openly discuss ideas must be defended,”](https://www.facebook.com/paul.j.watson.71/videos/10155264914736171/) is surrounded and accosted by “anti-Nazi” protesters. At one point, a protester blocks his sign, saying, “Everybody, just come here, just cover this shit.” ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Sanchez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19adc/32.png) [@Rick\_Sanchez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Sanchez)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 10:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-and-heckling-are-not-problems-on-college-campuses/786175/146 "2017-05-13T10:17:15Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > In another video, someone who holds a sign that merely just reads, [“The right to openly discuss ideas must be defended,”](https://www.facebook.com/paul.j.watson.71/videos/10155264914736171/) is surrounded and accosted by “anti-Nazi” protesters. > > At one point, a protester blocks his sign, saying, “Everybody, just come here, just cover this shit.” Wait…if that guy’s a Nazi, I guess that means it’s ok to punch him in the face, right? ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 11:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-and-heckling-are-not-problems-on-college-campuses/786175/147 "2017-05-13T11:19:14Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > except they’re not playing chess. they’re trying to win by knocking the checkerboard off of the table. Well the main point was you’re not going to a reason with a person who has made a career from a baseless claim. It’s ridiculous to think there is a potential for debate (i.e. chess) when the whole event is just checkers, or pro-wrestling, or live action trolling. > [@jz78817](#): > > Who appointed you to determine the “value” of anyone’s speech or point of view? Ethics. Morality. My God given right as an American. > [@Novelty\_Bobble](#): > > So…just so that I’m clear on this. Preventing people from speaking has nothing to do with freedom of speech…do I have that right? My answer to that depends on who’s doing preventing people from speaking? > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > And the professor loses to the pro wrestler the instant she steps into the ring. > > We can’t win against trolls through reverse trolling. They’re excellent at it, and they win at it. Reverse trolling, if you have the right attitude, is actually quite fun. I would personally enjoy yelling at one of these right wing fascist types until they sulked off the stage. The other option is to ignore them. Debating a troll is stupid. > [@Rick\_Sanchez](#): > > Okay…so, just to clarify, you’d consider it acceptable for right-wing agitators to shout down liberal speakers, so long as they don’t literally punch them out, because the left-wing agitators always have the option of just shouting right back at them. Have I got that right? I don’t want to accidentally misrepresent you, but that honestly sounds like what you’re trying to argue. Assuming I’m understanding you correctly, can you honestly not see why your strategy is counterproductive? I’d appreciate it if you just get to your point. > [@Rick\_Sanchez](#): > > Also, why are the Republican student groups trolls while the liberal student groups aren’t? You realise that whether or not someone is a troll is largely a matter of perspective, right? To me, if [these people](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMsi61OtkE4) aren’t trolls then the term has no meaning. I don’t click on links without knowing the content. The Republican student groups certainly are trolls. The protesters are not much different. > [@XT](#): > > Yes, you’ve said this repeatedly. Of course, it kind of detracts from your narrative that they DID use violence in conjunction with screaming and heckling and other abuse. It’s a slippery slope…when one group tries to stifle the message of another it seems to often spill over into violence. Again, this discussion is not about the violence that has accompanied some of these events. Most of this behavior occurs without violence. For example, I’ve never seen anyone get hurt during the protests that often occur at Congressional hearings on CSPAN. Continuously attempting to associate the discussion of a tactic, its ethics and consequences with the violence that sometimes occurs is unfair rhetorically. > [@XT](#): > > is going to be negatively received by anyone who isn’t one of the faithful and just lend credence to their message. Far better is to debunk the message not try and shout it down. According to the Wiki on the Berkeley Free Speech movement, there was a backlash against the Leftist protesters that led to Reagan as governor of California. Yet here it is that conservatives are very concerned about political speech on campus. Time will tell if this tactic becomes more commonplace. My guess is that it is already everywhere but since the Leftist students are doing it then suddenly it’s a problem. > [@Ale](#): > > Your argument is as disingenuous as claiming that a mob going out of their way to burst into a religious gathering, forcing people to disband, is not a violation of freedom of religion because it wasn’t the government doing it or because they were doing it at a public place. Is there case law showing a mob, acting independent of the government, was found to be legally violating the freedom of religion? > [@Rick\_Sanchez](#): > > Wait…if that guy’s a Nazi, I guess that means it’s ok to punch him in the face, right? Please stop bringing violence into this topic. > [@Jackmannii](#): > > How many people remember a 1970s free speech case involving William Shockley? > > Shockley was a Nobel Prize-winning physicist who later in life came down with a bad case of Nobel Disease (the tendency among some celebrated scientists to go outside their fields of expertise and espouse dubious to downright ludicrous beliefs). Shockley became interested (or obsessed) with the idea that blacks had inferior intelligence based on genetics. At least one of his campus appearances (at Yale) was marked by students shouting him down. The administration countered by announcing [the suspension of a dozen students](http://www.thecrimson.com/article/1974/5/13/yale-suspends-11-for-halting-debate/) and placing them on probation when they returned. > > \*"A Yale spokesman said the executive committee considered the 12 students to be the leaders of the disruption. The actions of the committee are subject to review by the Yale Corporation. > > In suspending the students, the executive committee said the students’ actions placed them “outside the voluntary association of persons dedicated to the free expression of all views.”\* > > What a revolutionary idea. Too bad colleges and universities don’t seem to be exhibiting the same spine currently.\* > > \*The University of Chicago is an exception. I think this is the crux of the problem. The campuses are not adequately enforcing their rules. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Sanchez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e19adc/32.png) [@Rick\_Sanchez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Sanchez)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-and-heckling-are-not-problems-on-college-campuses/786175/148 "2017-05-13T11:31:39Z")
> [@Inbred MM Domesticus](#): > > I’d appreciate it if you just get to your point. You know full well what my point is. I’ve made it several times. I’m not going to waste any more time repeating myself because it’s clear, at this point, that you have absolutely _zero_ interest whatsoever in engaging with people who hold opposing views on this subject, and that you only care about “winning” the argument. I’m out. Life’s too short for this nonsense. Feel free to have the last word. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-and-heckling-are-not-problems-on-college-campuses/786175/149 "2017-05-13T13:53:34Z")
> [@Rick\_Sanchez](#): > > Feel free to have the last word. Ok. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-and-heckling-are-not-problems-on-college-campuses/786175/150 "2017-05-13T14:16:37Z")
What I’d like to know is where are the college professors in this? Arent they supposed to be leading the students and setting an example? I mean if they feel at home denouncing Trump in their classrooms, why not denounce stupid behavior? Years ago at Kent State it was some brave professors who stood between guardsmen with guns and rioting students who helped stop the shooting. Where are such professors now? ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-and-heckling-are-not-problems-on-college-campuses/786175/151 "2017-05-13T15:22:31Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > Your argument is as disingenuous as claiming that a mob going out of their way to burst into a religious gathering, forcing people to disband, is not a violation of freedom of religion because it wasn’t the government doing it or because they were doing it at a public place. Exactly. Are you finally starting to understand the first amendment? ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-and-heckling-are-not-problems-on-college-campuses/786175/152 "2017-05-13T15:26:02Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > What I’d like to know is where are the college professors in this? Arent they supposed to be leading the students and setting an example? I mean if they feel at home denouncing Trump in their classrooms, why not denounce stupid behavior? Years ago at Kent State it was some brave professors who stood between guardsmen with guns and rioting students who helped stop the shooting. > > Where are such professors now? During the Middlebury College incident they had a plan for the protest that seemed to work. The professors involved attempted to teach the students about listening to people you do not agree with and one was injured protecting Murray from a few who wanted to be violent. They’re there but it doesn’t mean they can prevent everything. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-and-heckling-are-not-problems-on-college-campuses/786175/153 "2017-05-13T18:01:39Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > What I’d like to know is where are the college professors in this? Arent they supposed to be leading the students and setting an example? I mean if they feel at home denouncing Trump in their classrooms, why not denounce stupid behavior? Years ago at Kent State it was some brave professors who stood between guardsmen with guns and rioting students who helped stop the shooting. > > Where are such professors now? Well… Professor Melissa Click can be seen on video during the Mizzou protests, calling for some ‘muscle’ to stop the horrible scourge of people taking photographs in a public place. During the Berkeley riot, the guy who was swinging a bike lock at the heads of Republicans appears to be a professor of ethics at Canton College. Assault charges have been filed against him. Not quite the same thing as stepping in to protect people, but you know…different times. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-and-heckling-are-not-problems-on-college-campuses/786175/154 "2017-05-13T21:31:11Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > In another video, someone who holds a sign that merely just reads, [“The right to openly discuss ideas must be defended,”](https://www.facebook.com/paul.j.watson.71/videos/10155264914736171/) is surrounded and accosted by “anti-Nazi” protesters. > > At one point, a protester blocks his sign, saying, “Everybody, just come here, just cover this shit.” It’s okay, he’s just a white male. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-and-heckling-are-not-problems-on-college-campuses/786175/155 "2017-05-13T22:22:39Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > Is there case law showing a mob, acting independent of the government, was found to be legally violating the freedom of religion? > > Please stop bringing violence into this topic. I assume you have heard of violating anothers civil rights. Violence is part and parcel of your topic and you cant duck it. If you have a principled position on this topic I would love to hear it. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2017, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-and-heckling-are-not-problems-on-college-campuses/786175/156 "2017-05-13T22:24:39Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Those who oppose the OP’s premise: > > Would you rather see the speaker boycotted, and speaking to an empty auditorium? Personally, I think the best approach is to go to the speech but then sit quietly through its entire duration, playing games on your cell phone or texting. At random intervals, raise your fist and shout “Yeah! Whoo!” without lifting your eyes from your cell phone, regardless of what has just been spoken on the stage. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2017, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-and-heckling-are-not-problems-on-college-campuses/786175/157 "2017-05-14T02:49:04Z")
Someone should explain to these students that right wing figures want to complain about being martyrs of liberal intolerance to their conservative audiences. Also, the Streisand effect. I never heard of Jordan Peterson before this. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2017, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-and-heckling-are-not-problems-on-college-campuses/786175/158 "2017-05-14T03:11:58Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Someone should explain to these students that right wing figures want to complain about being martyrs of liberal intolerance to their conservative audiences. Also, the Streisand effect. I never heard of Jordan Peterson before this. Or maybe they complain about it because, you know, people on the left are constantly doing this kind of shit. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2017, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-and-heckling-are-not-problems-on-college-campuses/786175/159 "2017-05-14T03:31:04Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Or maybe they complain about it because, you know, people on the left are constantly doing this kind of shit. Conservatives are fighters and don’t give up so easily. Someday they’ll break through the liberal blockade and get their message out there. ---
**Author:** ![Shagnasty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9dc877/32.png) [@Shagnasty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shagnasty)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2017, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-and-heckling-are-not-problems-on-college-campuses/786175/160 "2017-05-14T04:13:33Z")
When I was in college in the early 1990’s, David Duke (former KKK Grand Wizard) was running for Governor of Louisiana. We hosted his speech at Tulane in a civil manner. Approximately 0% of the audience were white supremacists but they listened and asked pointed questions. THE END. There was a small protest outside and I even wrote a letter to the college newspaper that was published basically calling them a bunch of retards in the kindest sense of the word. All they had to do was face their adversary, ask intelligent questions and have firm rebuttals. That should be easy for anyone that is smart as they think they are. I had no idea at the time that things would escalate exponentially in just two decades. Instead, we get enough chaos, intimidation, violence and destruction that would make a troop of monkeys blush (presumably on their ass). I find it really disappointing that American citizens don’t understand the Constitution and the concept of free speech intuitively. To tell you the truth, the more I read the comments, it sounds like explaining higher math to a bunch of people that simply don’t have the brain horsepower to comprehend it. You can try to explain the basic concepts but, in the end, you either get it or you don’t. For reference, I would support any free speech movement in my community no matter the subject as long as they are civil. That is what it means. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-and-heckling-are-not-problems-on-college-campuses/786175.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screaming-and-heckling-are-not-problems-on-college-campuses/786175.md?page=9)