# Screw headhunters! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 12, 2014, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-headhunters/688255 "2014-05-12T07:06:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-headhunters/688255/21 "2014-05-13T03:45:59Z")
I have used Executive Placement Services numerous times over the years. Not once have they been useful in getting me a position, of any sort. Not once. I include the ones that take time to try to match up the job’s requirements with my skills and background. Every job I’ve been hired for has been one that I applied for personally. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-headhunters/688255/22 "2014-05-13T04:36:38Z")
WAYLON SMITHERS: What’s become of this country?! Can’t a man take a walk down the street without being offered a job?! ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-headhunters/688255/23 "2014-05-13T06:04:28Z")
Headhunters are typically defined as someone hired by a company to fill a specific position. Recruiters are permanent or contract employees of companies to fill a number of positions. I’ve never had a bad experience. And I got a job through one. And that guy worked his butt off for me. The job sucked, but that was not his fault. All of **BrightNShiny** ’s issues can be easily resolved. For instance 1. If a headhunter calls you in the middle of the day, get his number and tell him you’ll call him back in the evening. Do you want them to call you at home? 2. Just say no. Then the headhunter gets embarrassed. And if you are a programmer, who does not wear a suit, don’t wear a suit to the interview. When I changed jobs within Silicon Valley I sure didn’t. 3. Meet and greet? Is this a headhunter or a contract shop? Very different things. I’ve hired contractors, but I’ve never been one. Again, why do that for someone who emailed you? 4. Don’t like the money? Just say no and quickly. When I hear a job descriptions sometimes, I often say “you can’t afford me.” Try it. No reason to get upset. How does he know what you make? You didn’t put it on your resume, did you? 5. If he can’t get the company to give this information, just tell him you can’t afford to waste your time pursuing it any further. 6-8. The whole world does not revolve around your specialty. I have a Ph.D. in computer science and have been programming for 45 years and I have no idea of what MVC is. Why should he? When a head hunter calls me, the first thing I do is ask him what he thinks I do. If he is looking for a generic programmer or designer, I thank him and hang up. If he has a clue, I may talk more. Saves a lot of time. Sort the cold callers from the ones who do research. The common thread among all these crappy headhunters is you. If you want to find a job, find it yourself. Why do you put up with their crap? If you tell them to get lost, either there is no opportunity and you lost nothing, or there might be one and the stupid headhunter (or whatever he really is) looks like an idiot, Win/win. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-headhunters/688255/24 "2014-05-13T07:35:06Z")
God, this rant is perfect. I was preemptively snarking mentally because pitting recruiters is such weak sauce, but they are just so awful and this rant was just so spot on start to finish. Why is it always with the “great opportunity” with no specifics whatsoever, and the half hour of asking questions a baboon could have answered by just glancing at my resume peripherally? I do not have time to go to your downtown office so I can meet with five other idiots who never bothered to look at my resume either and literally answer the same handful of facile questions repeatedly. Can these people at least pretend to try? I love how skittish they get when I ask them direct questions about the “opportunity” and how badly they try to avoid giving real answers. Call me back when you have a real position, and the not imaginary one you created to waste my fucking time getting me into your dingy ass office so I can be interviewed by some 23 year old who’s only here because this is the only job she could get right out of college. “I found your resume on XYZ” to me is more or less akin to “I’m leaving you.” Don’t say those words, man. They hurt. > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > And what is with the enormous glut of Indian recruiters who can barely write in complete sentences and appear to pick resumes exclusively from keyword searches. Yes, I have experience with Python frameworks and libraries…for scientific visualization and high performance data crunching. I do not build websites. I do not know Django or Zope. I am not a Java developer. I am not an avionics engineer, or a “system architect”, or a fit to whatever other random position you are trying to fill today. I do not wish to leave my job for your “3+ month” contract opportunity in Bumfuck, FO. “Oh, you’re in the same state as this position? Close enough.” I also love when they found whatever keywords they were looking for, then tell me about a position that clearly does not match my resume. “Must have 10+ years of IT Project Management experience.” Uh, I don’t have 10 years of any experience at all; I graduated less than 10 years ago, and I have _zero_ IT experience. Why would you even…? God, I have such hate for head hunters. Hate. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-headhunters/688255/25 "2014-05-13T11:45:45Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > However, I have also encountered a subset of the population who were born in India who leave me with the conclusion that there are cultural differences regarding honesty of qualifications on resumes. They seem to subscribe to the “fake it until you make it” theory. Country independent, sadly; I’ve met people from at least a dozen countries with that kind of mindset. And for every one so stupid as to add 10 years to their easily-verifiable age in order to add 10 years experience to what would otherwise be a blank resume, there’s dozens who merely inflate qualifications. Makes things a pain in the ass for those of us who list the truth, since many people will assume that we’re inflating things. My resume is already a fucking balloon au naturel, it doesn’t need extra gas. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 12:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-headhunters/688255/26 "2014-05-13T12:27:37Z")
> [@Morbo](#): > > As someone doing the hiring for software developers in my company, I utterly despise this. On more than one occasion I have spoken to potential hires about working with a specific technology - the one I was specifically hiring for - only to have this happen: > > “I…I’m sorry, I don’t have any experience with .NET.” > “Oh. Well you have it listed here under the “computer languages” section” > “I do? May I see that?” ::reads it over:: “Uh, I think the recruiter added that. I brought my resume with me - here it is unedited.” > “Ah…OK, well unfortunately this is a .NET position. If anything comes up with your skillset I’ll keep you in mind.” > > A complete waste of everyone’s time, and worse, it makes the applicant look really bad. It also guarantees that I will never work with that agency again - the entire agency, regardless of whether it was just the one recruiter working for them that did it. …oh lordy. You just bought back a memory I blocked out. This happened to me. A recruiter (who also happened to be a very good friend) sent me to interview for a position. The CV he sent them changed the job description of one of my roles from “Functions Manager” to “Food and Beverage Manager.” And he didn’t tell me. So the first question I got asked was about my role as Food and Beverage Manager. ME: “I’ve never been a Food and Beverage Manager.” THEM: “Oh, are you sure?” ME: “Absolutely.” THEM: “But it says here on your CV you were, just a couple of years ago.” I can’t remember what I said then but I spluttered something, went red and a sweat just went over my brow. The next question was about salary expectations. It was then that we found out the job I was interviewing for paid $15,000 less than my current job. We mutually decided that continuing with the interview would serve no purpose so we shook hands and I left. Total interview time approximately about two minutes. Fortunately the recruiter was a friend so I had no hesitation in spending the next twenty minutes telling him in no uncertain terms exactly what I thought of him. (Oddly enough a year later I found myself working for that same recruitment agency in the Temp Division. I’m not allowed to talk about my time there: but it was the most soul destroying job I’ve ever had.) ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-headhunters/688255/27 "2014-05-13T12:36:51Z")
I work in medical research on the clinic side of things (where we’re the site that’s recruiting people with particular medical conditions to participate), but I am not a nurse or doctor. I am constantly being sent job leads that require a nursing license of one kind or another. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-headhunters/688255/28 "2014-05-13T13:12:07Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Um, okay. That’s a definition that only you use. Forgive me. I’m an old engineer who has been assaulted by headhunters in the past. Oddly enough some of my other old guy engineering friends go with that definition too. That is, somebody you engage is a recruiter and somebody who seeks you out is a headhunter. > [@](#): > > Asking them questions about the job is not hiring them to do anything. Getting random phone calls from them is not hiring them to do anything. You seem to use words in odd ways. Let me guess. They randomly obtained your resume? You seem to use words in odd ways yourself. > [@](#): > > I’m aware what my choices are. I’m calling them unprofessional idiots. And yet you engaged them by sending them resumes and asking questions. Sorry I sidetracked the conversation but years of dealing with headhunters has led me to believe that one is better off not giving them ANY information other than stating that you will not cooperate with them in any way. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-headhunters/688255/29 "2014-05-13T13:31:37Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > And what is with the enormous glut of Indian recruiters who can barely write in complete sentences and appear to pick resumes exclusively from keyword searches. You have to admit that it’s become so much easier now that they “Contact you no sooner than receiving this new urgent opportunity!”, and since they’ve all changed their names to Kimberly and Brian and Jenny and Todd. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-headhunters/688255/30 "2014-05-13T14:21:24Z")
I hate these bozos too. “Hey, I was just looking at your resume and I’ve got a position here for you. Do you have any experience with $thing-that-isnt-on-my-resume? No? Well then I don’t think you’re going to work out for this position.” “I’ve got a position for you, it’s all the way across the country with no moving allowance, 3 months long, shitty pay, no benefits, no chance of permanent hire, doing mindless gruntwork vaguely related to your field. Interested? No? Why not?” ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-headhunters/688255/31 "2014-05-13T14:38:28Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Let me guess. They randomly obtained your resume? You seem to use words in odd ways yourself. Just how old are you? Have you heard of these newfangled “interweb machines?” ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-headhunters/688255/32 "2014-05-13T15:00:11Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > I think I’ve found a solution! I’ve just started fucking with them. Here’s an email exchange I just had: > > I got a chuckle out of it anyway. He did send a response back which indicated that I got under his skin. I’m deciding whether or not to respond. You make my heart soar like an eagle. 🙂 > [@dropzone](#): > > I call that the “Is he white?” interview. I’ve dragged my ass thirty miles one way in rush hour traffic for an interview that lasted long enough to check the “Yes” box.\ Yikes. > [@Voyager](#): > > Headhunters are typically defined as someone hired by a company to fill a specific position. Recruiters are permanent or contract employees of companies to fill a number of positions. > > I’ve never had a bad experience. And I got a job through one. And that guy worked his butt off for me. The job sucked, but that was not his fault. > > All of **BrightNShiny** ’s issues can be easily resolved. > For instance > > 1. If a headhunter calls you in the middle of the day, get his number and tell him you’ll call him back in the evening. Do you want them to call you at home? > > 2. Just say no. Then the headhunter gets embarrassed. And if you are a programmer, who does not wear a suit, don’t wear a suit to the interview. When I changed jobs within Silicon Valley I sure didn’t. > > 3. Meet and greet? Is this a headhunter or a contract shop? Very different things. I’ve hired contractors, but I’ve never been one. Again, why do that for someone who emailed you? > > 4. Don’t like the money? Just say no and quickly. When I hear a job descriptions sometimes, I often say “you can’t afford me.” Try it. No reason to get upset. How does he know what you make? You didn’t put it on your resume, did you? > > 5. If he can’t get the company to give this information, just tell him you can’t afford to waste your time pursuing it any further. > > 6-8. The whole world does not revolve around your specialty. I have a Ph.D. in computer science and have been programming for 45 years and I have no idea of what MVC is. Why should he? > > When a head hunter calls me, the first thing I do is ask him what he thinks I do. If he is looking for a generic programmer or designer, I thank him and hang up. If he has a clue, I may talk more. Saves a lot of time. Sort the cold callers from the ones who do research. > > The common thread among all these crappy headhunters is you. If you want to find a job, find it yourself. Why do you put up with their crap? If you tell them to get lost, either there is no opportunity and you lost nothing, or there might be one and the stupid headhunter (or whatever he really is) looks like an idiot, Win/win. Or they could not be illiterate baboons. It’s reassuring to me that headhunters are just jumped-up temp agents - my agents do all these things, too. I’ve had good ones over the years, but they are far outweighed by the melonheads. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-headhunters/688255/33 "2014-05-13T15:38:07Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Just how old are you? Have you heard of these newfangled “interweb machines?” Point taken. Still, engaging these clowns at all with anything other than “LEAVE ME ALONE” is just setting yourself up for some serious annoyance. I’ll drop my hijack with an old timer story. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-headhunters/688255/34 "2014-05-13T15:45:58Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Just how old are you? Have you heard of these newfangled “interweb machines?” Point taken. Still, engaging these clowns at all with anything other than “LEAVE ME ALONE” is just setting yourself up for some serious annoyance. I’ll drop my hijack with an old timer story. Head hunters used to call our office and phish names out of the admins One called and said, “Hey, one of your engineers helped me one day with a flat tire and he lent me an umbrella which I accidentally kept. He was a tall guy. Said his name but I can’t remember it.” If the admin was a newby she might start rattling off names of all of the engineers which the headhunter would write down. Then, the following week the head hunter would call back and ask for an engineer specifically by name and start trying to recruit him. My admin asked me if I lost an umbrella one day and sure enough a week later I get a call. I listened to the guy’s offer for a while and finally said to him,"No way am I going to do business with you until you return my umbrella. Edit - What the heck - not sure how the double post fired off??? ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-headhunters/688255/35 "2014-05-13T16:32:26Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > I listened to the guy’s offer for a while and finally said to him,"No way am I going to do business with you until you return my umbrella. That’s a good one. 😃 My main complaint with these buffoons is that they can be incredibly invasive. I have a profile on LinkedIn (as does nearly everyone in my industry) which if you’re not familiar with it is basically the resume/CV version of a social network. Recruiters constantly troll LinkedIn profiles looking for keywords in resumes and just spam everybody they find, no matter how tenuous the connection or remote the qualification. The barrier to entry is low, as with all spam, so why not? You can block and report the abusers, which I do, but it just makes work for me. But those are the least annoying ones. When they get clever is when it gets really out of control. They’ll look at my resume, see where I currently work, and cold-call the receptionist. “Can I speak to Mr. **friedo** please, it’s urgent!” Then they pitch me some shitty COBOL job in Toledo and I’m supposed to not be offended that they’re _calling me at work_ to pitch a fucking job. Other times they’ll guess your work email address. It’s not hard. A lot of people’s email address is [firstname.lastname@example.com](mailto:firstname.lastname@example.com). Or [flastname@example.com](mailto:flastname@example.com). WTF, let’s just CC those plus every other possible permutation, including the ones that actually exist and are other people in the office with my same last name! Thanks, headhunter, for making my credulous colleagues think I’m looking for another job when in fact I have no relationship with you and your coke-addled, mentally disabled, fratboy, douche-nozzle, faux-hawked, imbecile farm. And no, I don’t want to learn MUMPS. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-headhunters/688255/36 "2014-05-14T16:05:39Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > 6-8. The whole world does not revolve around your specialty. I have a Ph.D. in computer science and have been programming for 45 years and I have no idea of what MVC is. Why should he? Your whole post is pretty stupid, but this has to be the stupidest part. MVC is not a “specialty,” it’s a software pattern that’s used widely throughout the industry. Where did you get your PhD? DeVry Institute of Technology? You obviously don’t have a clue about either software or recruiters. You can keep your condescending bullshit where the sun don’t shine. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-headhunters/688255/37 "2014-05-14T16:18:11Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Where did you get your PhD? DeVry Institute of Technology? Dude, ouch! ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-headhunters/688255/38 "2014-05-14T16:38:23Z")
Well, this should be entertaining. I’ve got a Grant-bill on **Voyager** for a TKO by the end of the second round. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-headhunters/688255/39 "2014-05-14T16:40:30Z")
> [@Daithi\_Lacha](#): > > Gee, and I thought this thread was to put Herbie Hancock on blast. That’s much better than what I was going to say about phillips head vs. straight. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-headhunters/688255/40 "2014-05-14T19:20:39Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > Your whole post is pretty stupid, but this has to be the stupidest part. MVC is not a “specialty,” it’s a software pattern that’s used widely throughout the industry. Where did you get your PhD? DeVry Institute of Technology? > > You obviously don’t have a clue about either software or recruiters. You can keep your condescending bullshit where the sun don’t shine. Computer architecture, microprogramming, and programming language design if you must know. And back then I think Bill might have been working on Microsoft Basic (not a bad implementation.) no MS-DOS, not Windows. I’ve never been a coder. I do interesting stuff. So, why don’t you tell these idiots to get lost again? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-headhunters/688255.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-headhunters/688255.md?page=3)