# Screw Muslim and Arab sensitivity **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 5, 2005, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-muslim-and-arab-sensitivity/324873 "2005-10-05T12:58:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-muslim-and-arab-sensitivity/324873/1 "2005-10-05T12:58:25Z")
Time for England to change its national flag? …bah > [@](#): > > Chris Doyle, director of the Council for the Advancement of Arab-British Understanding, said Tuesday the red cross was an insensitive reminder of the Crusades. > “A lot of Muslims and Arabs view the Crusades as a bloody episode in our history,” he told CNN. "They see those campaigns as Christendom launching a brutal holy war against Islam. > [@](#): > > Doyle added that it was now time for England to find a new flag and a patron saint who is “not associated with our bloody past and one we can all identify with.” [http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/10/04/britain.redcross/index.html](http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/10/04/britain.redcross/index.html) Who gives a shit what you idiots think of the crusades, as far as I’m concerned they were nothing compared to what Europe and Christianity suffered at the hand of the numerous Muslim brutal holy wars against Christianity. But hey! bygones etc. But if they find the English flag so goddamn bloody awful, probably they should have done a little bit of study and thought of that before deciding to emigrate to England. And what bloody past is it you associate St. George with that you so disagree with? As far as I know he was some thoroughly depraved guy from Turkish Asia who became church patriarch of Alexandria and proceeded to loot its coffers. Or some such thing, Gibbon lost me a bit there. In any case it all happened some 3-4 centuries before anyone had given the slightest thought to Islam. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-muslim-and-arab-sensitivity/324873/2 "2005-10-05T13:08:01Z")
Oh, and Brits ought to give a little thought as well to their insensitive use of Indian names. It sends the wrong message when you give names to your Premier League teams like the “Chelsea Fighting Sioux”. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-muslim-and-arab-sensitivity/324873/3 "2005-10-05T13:12:07Z")
I’m fairly certain that a number of British Muslims didn’t emigrate there. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-muslim-and-arab-sensitivity/324873/4 "2005-10-05T13:13:16Z")
That should be: > [@](#): > > I’m fairly certain that a number of Britsh Muslims didn’t immigrate there. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-muslim-and-arab-sensitivity/324873/5 "2005-10-05T13:19:49Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I’m fairly certain that a number of British Muslims didn’t immigrate there. Then they’ve no axe to grind. We never crusaded against Muslims in Britain. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-muslim-and-arab-sensitivity/324873/6 "2005-10-05T13:25:11Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > I’m fairly certain that a number of British Muslims didn’t emigrate there. Perhaps so. What about Arabs. Any native Arabs in England? On the other hand, I think I may get the hang of this sensitivity business. There’s big statue of that criminal bastard Nelson on a central square of London. Nelson stole the Danish fleet and bombed Copenhagen. I find it highly insensitive that they should have a statue of him in London. A city where there lives tens of thousands of Danes! About time they threw him out and put up a more agreeable person instead. Perhas Harry Potter? ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-muslim-and-arab-sensitivity/324873/7 "2005-10-05T13:26:14Z")
“Perhaps so. What about Arabs. Any native Arabs _born_ in England?” ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-muslim-and-arab-sensitivity/324873/8 "2005-10-05T13:27:17Z")
A reminder of the Crusades? The CRUSADES?!?! Yeah, I’m reminded of the Crusades daily. I’m offended on a regular basis over something that happened a thousand years ago. :rolleyes: Screw that. Keep your flag and tell these people to shut their pieholes. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-muslim-and-arab-sensitivity/324873/9 "2005-10-05T13:27:43Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Perhaps so. What about Arabs. Any native Arabs in England? > > On the other hand, I think I may get the hang of this sensitivity business. There’s big statue of that criminal bastard Nelson on a central square of London. Nelson stole the Danish fleet and bombed Copenhagen. I find it highly insensitive that they should have a statue of him in London. A city where there lives tens of thousands of Danes! About time they threw him out and put up a more agreeable person instead. Perhas Harry Potter? No. A Womble. Can’t you picture it? A tall stone monument, atop which perches a bronze replica of Orinoco, in a raincoat & hat, carrying an umbrella over his head. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-muslim-and-arab-sensitivity/324873/10 "2005-10-05T13:41:16Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Perhaps so. What about Arabs. Any native Arabs in England? > > On the other hand, I think I may get the hang of this sensitivity business. There’s big statue of that criminal bastard Nelson on a central square of London. Nelson stole the Danish fleet and bombed Copenhagen. I find it highly insensitive that they should have a statue of him in London. A city where there lives tens of thousands of Danes! About time they threw him out and put up a more agreeable person instead. Perhas Harry Potter? No, we should tell the damn Danes if they don’t like it they shouldn’t let the door hit 'em in the ass. :rolleyes: 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-muslim-and-arab-sensitivity/324873/11 "2005-10-05T13:46:17Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > A reminder of the Crusades? The CRUSADES?!?! > > Yeah, I’m reminded of the Crusades daily. I’m offended on a regular basis over something that happened a thousand years ago. :rolleyes: You think that’s holding a grudge? I’m still pissed off at the Prokaryotes branching off from the Eukaryotes. Too good for subcellular membrane enclosed organelles, are ya, you bastards! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-muslim-and-arab-sensitivity/324873/12 "2005-10-05T13:57:03Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > On the other hand, I think I may get the hang of this sensitivity business. There’s big statue of that criminal bastard Nelson on a central square of London. Nelson stole the Danish fleet and bombed Copenhagen. I find it highly insensitive that they should have a statue of him in London. A city where there lives tens of thousands of Danes! About time they threw him out and put up a more agreeable person instead. Perhas Harry Potter? Considering that Nelson was born in Norfolk, an area with a history of significant Danish immigration in the second half of the 1st millenium, his last name might once well have been Neilsen. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-muslim-and-arab-sensitivity/324873/13 "2005-10-05T14:04:01Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > You think that’s holding a grudge? I’m still pissed off at the Prokaryotes branching off from the Eukaryotes. Too good for subcellular membrane enclosed organelles, are ya, you bastards! I’m still upset about abiogenesis. Before that we were inorganic and we were happy to be inorganic, thank you very much! ---
**Author:** ![Ponder\_Stibbons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponder_stibbons/32/343_2.png) [@Ponder\_Stibbons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponder_Stibbons)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-muslim-and-arab-sensitivity/324873/14 "2005-10-05T14:05:41Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > I’m still upset about abiogenesis. Before that we were inorganic and we were happy to be inorganic, thank you very much! Meh. Personally, I’m still pissed off about Gondwanaland splitting up. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-muslim-and-arab-sensitivity/324873/15 "2005-10-05T14:10:00Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Time for England to change its national flag? …bah > > [CNN.com - Race fears spark St. George ban - Oct 4, 2005](http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/10/04/britain.redcross/index.html) > > Who gives a shit what you idiots think of the crusades, as far as I’m concerned they were nothing compared to what Europe and Christianity suffered at the hand of the numerous Muslim brutal holy wars against Christianity. But hey! bygones etc. But if they find the English flag so goddamn bloody awful, probably they should have done a little bit of study and thought of that before deciding to emigrate to England. > > And what bloody past is it you associate St. George with that you so disagree with? As far as I know he was some thoroughly depraved guy from Turkish Asia who became church patriarch of Alexandria and proceeded to loot its coffers. Or some such thing, Gibbon lost me a bit there. In any case it all happened some 3-4 centuries before anyone had given the slightest thought to Islam. Y’know, it’s a documented fact that Arab slavers used to raid Ireland and England back in the day. Maybe you Brits should ask for reparations, since apparently things that happened hundreds of years ago are causus belli now. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-muslim-and-arab-sensitivity/324873/16 "2005-10-05T14:11:08Z")
> [@Ponder Stibbons](#): > > Meh. Personally, I’m still pissed off about Gondwanaland splitting up. Oh, god, you too! It was in all the tabloids: Continental US, Plateple Magazine, The Pangaea Enquirer! ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-muslim-and-arab-sensitivity/324873/17 "2005-10-05T14:14:07Z")
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-muslim-and-arab-sensitivity/324873/18 "2005-10-05T14:16:59Z")
This seems pretty fucking stupid to me. The guy and his group need to start dealing with real issues. How muslims view themselves and are treated is important but this is just plain stupid. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Scrivener](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@The\_Scrivener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Scrivener)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-muslim-and-arab-sensitivity/324873/19 "2005-10-05T14:18:43Z")
I agree with the substance of this thread. The Crusades were dreadful, but they are also ancient history. They far predate the practically annual campaigns by the Ottomans into the Balkans and central Europe, their goal being the capture of Vienna. (And the PC crowd tsk-tsks the Austrians for balking at the admission of Turkey into the EU! I think they fear that Turkish immigration would accomplish what the sultans couldn’t…) Not to mention the still more recent advent of Wahabbist fundamentalism, Islamicism, the irredentist movement to re-establish the “Caliphate,” and, oh yeah, terrorism. The Muslims who stoke current grievances in the name of the Crusades should reflect on this: that the more-recent outrages and campaigns conducted in the name of Islam will likely serve as a historical touchstone, a cultural reference point, and a politically reactionary rallying cry for a thousand years after 9-11 and whatever further horrors are likely to come. As for the complexes and sensitivities of our Muslim and Arab friends, I also say “screw 'em”. There is a yawning PC gap between the West and the Middle East that must be addressed, and redressed, before we should feel so uneasy about our own cultural heritage and cravenly willing to erase it to placate a few Muslim loudmouths. We’ll know the Muslim world is ready to join us in the 21rst century when they stop referring to all non-Muslims as “infidels,” for starters. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Corrado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a88e4f/32.png) [@John\_Corrado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Corrado)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2005, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-muslim-and-arab-sensitivity/324873/20 "2005-10-05T14:20:20Z")
> [@Ponder Stibbons](#): > > Meh. Personally, I’m still pissed off about Gondwanaland splitting up. I blame Yoko. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-muslim-and-arab-sensitivity/324873.md?page=2)