# Screw this hater of his own race **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 26, 2016, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-this-hater-of-his-own-race/775670 "2016-12-26T23:24:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-this-hater-of-his-own-race/775670/21 "2016-12-27T17:12:56Z")
Black or white-I’ve never understood the concept of race pride. I mean, it’s like being proud of being _tall_. “Yeah, six foot one, and I really worked on that.” Still the mindset is pretty well explained. “The less justified a man is in claiming excellence for his own self, the more ready is he to claim excellence for his nation, his religion, his race or his holy cause.”–Eric Hoffer, The True Believer ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-this-hater-of-his-own-race/775670/22 "2016-12-27T17:15:20Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Well, when a nation of slaves overthrows the masters and takes charge of their own destiny, I’m not going to be shocked that they kill their masters. Apparently it was a bit more complicated than that. _“…the Haitian slave revolt coincided with the French Revolution, and the slaves and soldiers borrowed from the metropolis the idea that the survival of a revolution justified murder, war and even large-scale massacres, that ideology was worth dying, and killing, for. Second, economic interest was at the heart of the planters’ desire to force black slaves to work, but it also influenced the rebellious slaves’ decision to kill all planters and their families: black generals, who replaced Whites as plantation owners, directly benefitted from the genocide. Third, the 1802–4 period marks the conclusion of a bloody, thirteen-year slave revolt that was itself a reaction to a century-old colonial rule characterized by the brutal exploitation of a large slave population. War, by creating a context in which violent death was the norm rather than the exception, made it easier to resort to mass murder. Fourth, with few exceptions, those who perpetrated the genocide were former slaves, while most victims were former slave owners and soldiers supporting slavery; the genocide was thus a form of class warfare in which an exploited lower class exacted revenge against the master class. Finally, in its last stages, the war turned into a racial conflict that pitted Whites against Blacks and Mulattoes. The usual characteristics of racism (hatred, oversimplification, conspiracy theories, dehumanization) all facilitated the genocide.”_ [http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00313220500106196?src=recsys&journalCode=rpop20](http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00313220500106196?src=recsys&journalCode=rpop20) Probably not a good idea to speak or “tweet” approvingly of any genocide, whatever the supposed justification. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-this-hater-of-his-own-race/775670/23 "2016-12-27T18:02:09Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I certainly can’t blame Haitian slaves for committing violence against their masters and supporters of their masters in their quest to be free. Similarly, I wouldn’t judge any concentration/death camp internee for killing Nazis in their quest to be free (or even in the chaos of the aftermath), and I wouldn’t judge any American slaves and abolitionists, like Nat Turner or John Brown, for committing violence against slavers and supporters of slavery. Slavery is a crime against humanity, and slaves (and abolitionists) are entirely justified in using any and all efforts, including deadly force, to free themselves and their fellow slaves. The problem with this argument is that it justified murder on subjective grounds. It excuses the crimes of people like Eric Rudolph who kill to stop what they think are crimes against humanity…in this case abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-this-hater-of-his-own-race/775670/24 "2016-12-27T18:11:18Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > The problem with this argument is that it justified murder on subjective grounds. It excuses the crimes of people like Eric Rudolph who kill to stop what they think are crimes against humanity…in this case abortion. That’s why we have to do things like consider the context. But to a certain extent, you’re correct, the justification of murder is pretty damned subjective, from an ethical standpoint. I feel neither outrage or admiration toward this professor. While racial inequality is a deeply problematic reality in this country, I’m tiring, fast, of identity politics. We can do better. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-this-hater-of-his-own-race/775670/25 "2016-12-27T18:18:39Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Apparently it was a bit more complicated than that. (snip) > > Probably not a good idea to speak or “tweet” approvingly of any genocide, whatever the supposed justification. I suppose you can always have **less** bloody Revolutions (but without skillful leaders, I doubt its effectiveness at preventing loser-irredentism in the future). Haiti is, without a doubt, history’s **most** righteous and justified case of Revolution/Genocide/uprising. The Haitian white/Slaver class cannot hold irredentist claims on your land, your labour, and the bodies of you and your family when they are all dead. ---
**Author:** ![CatandMouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@CatandMouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatandMouse)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-this-hater-of-his-own-race/775670/26 "2016-12-27T18:21:33Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > “White genocide”. Where, in America? That’s funny. Look out White people! Here comes your genocide! I know, right? A multicultural society does not stop racist nitwits from spreading their DNA. LOL! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-this-hater-of-his-own-race/775670/27 "2016-12-27T18:58:15Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > The problem with this argument is that it justified murder on subjective grounds. It excuses the crimes of people like Eric Rudolph who kill to stop what they think are crimes against humanity…in this case abortion. It doesn’t excuse Rudolph in the least, any more than a killing in self defense does. Are you really saying that a slave who kills their master while escaping is mostly culpable for murder? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-this-hater-of-his-own-race/775670/28 "2016-12-27T19:32:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It doesn’t excuse Rudolph in the least, any more than a killing in self defense does. Are you really saying that a slave who kills their master while escaping is mostly culpable for murder? Depends on the circumstances. Could he escape without killing? Did he purposely seek him out to kill him? If he had to kill to escape absolutely ethical. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-this-hater-of-his-own-race/775670/29 "2016-12-27T19:41:14Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Depends on the circumstances. Could he escape without killing? Did he purposely seek him out to kill him? If he had to kill to escape absolutely ethical. And what if he had to kill to prevent himself from being hunted down like an animal, tortured, maimed, and maybe killed? In the case of true oppression like slavery, I do not believe that the slaves have any moral obligations to their oppressors. If a slave burns downs a plantation house with the entirely of the family inside, I would not condemn the slave in any way. Basically, you are right, it does depend on circumstances. If they are in the circumstance of being a slave, you have no right to expect them to honor any moral obligations you may think they should have. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-this-hater-of-his-own-race/775670/30 "2016-12-27T19:48:33Z")
I don’t begrudge Alexander Turner for escaping slavery, joining the 1st New Jersey Colored Infantry then returning to his old plantation and killing his former overseer, who had a reputation for cruelty. The fact that the man lived out his life on a farm in Vermont that he named ‘Journey’s End’ is even better. Especially when you consider that his grandmother was an English woman who got shipwrecked on the coast of Ghana, fell in love with a local and bore a son, who was later captured and sold into slavery in America. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-this-hater-of-his-own-race/775670/31 "2016-12-27T19:54:09Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Depends on the circumstances. Could he escape without killing? Did he purposely seek him out to kill him? If he had to kill to escape absolutely ethical. Reality is almost never so cut and dry. In the heat of the moment the escaping slave might lash out, or set a fire as a diversion. When the alternative is a life of being raped and brutalized forever, and watching their children raped and brutalized forever, I can’t imagine judging someone who acts violently to escape. Slavery, in America, was terrorism and war on black people, and some reacted as humans often do when warred upon and terrorized. ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-this-hater-of-his-own-race/775670/32 "2016-12-27T20:04:48Z")
I still prefer the rich people/Republicans of the 1930s who called President Roosevelt a “traitor to his class.” ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-this-hater-of-his-own-race/775670/33 "2016-12-27T21:19:28Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Trump: I’m dreaming of a white America after we nuke all the blacks, Muslims and Mexicans! > Liberals: What the fuck??? > \*\*aldiboronti \*\*: Calm down libtards, can’t you take joke? LOL. This accurately summarizes the behavior of all the Trump apologists. They turned the Presidency into an unfunny trolling meme. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-this-hater-of-his-own-race/775670/34 "2016-12-27T21:40:14Z")
> [@CatandMouse](#): > > I know, right? A multicultural society does not stop racist nitwits from spreading their DNA. LOL! I don’t know about the down-home Nazis. But the White Identity guys in nice suits don’t impress me as the types to have Aryan wives at home, popping out blonde babies. They probably can’t interest anyone in their, umm, DNA… ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-this-hater-of-his-own-race/775670/35 "2016-12-27T22:02:46Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > [Professor under fire for tweet that appeared to support ‘white genocide’](http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-professor-white-genocide-tweet-20161226-story.html) > > You know, I almost fell for that explanation until I read the next paragraph > > Fuck you, you racist piece of shit. You’re as bad as the people you condemn. If a race war did commence (and scum like you are doing their utmost to foment one) I hope you’re the first white massacred. > > BTW I’m glad to see that Drexel University is taking this seriously. I hope they fire his ass. Does it matter that those whites were slavers? ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-this-hater-of-his-own-race/775670/36 "2016-12-27T22:15:16Z")
Well any institution like slavery has the ability to break a person down into what people describe as less than human, you lose all dignity, if you really imagine what it would be like to be whipped, starved, humiliated, see your loved ones raped, your children taken away and sold like property never to be seen again, if you think you could experience something like that and not be slightly pissed or changed as a result you’re crazy. The morality of killing the slavers doesn’t even enter into the equation, such treatment of human beings basically reverts us back into the animals we all are deep down, you can’t be dehumanized systematically like that and then be held to some higher standard because you killed the slaver, and then all of the sudden be expected to just bend over and take it. ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2016, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-this-hater-of-his-own-race/775670/37 "2016-12-27T23:01:09Z")
> [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](#): > > And, Good Lord, “Hater of his own race?” > > What morally bankrupt, ethically empty, religiously maladjusted, kind of intellectually inert lump do you have to be to think both that hating is okay (stand down, you express plenty) but also that hating _one’s own race_ is beyond (excuse the expression) the pale? > > **aldiboranti** , sorry that I spent the time on you. Because time is again not on your side. Your children will speak less of you, your grandchildren even less, and they will teach their children not to remember you at all. Agreed all around. I don’t see threads from the OP when a black performer castigated other blacks, for example. Looks like the only race worth being loyal to is white, as far as the OP’s concerned. Either loyalty or treason to a happenstance of birth is a ludicrous idea. ---
**Author:** ![CatandMouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c89c15/32.png) [@CatandMouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatandMouse)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-this-hater-of-his-own-race/775670/38 "2016-12-29T22:59:47Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > If hating your own race is just fine and dandy with you then I too regret the time I have spent in desling with you in this reply. White nationalist? ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-this-hater-of-his-own-race/775670/39 "2016-12-29T23:15:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I certainly can’t blame Haitian slaves for committing violence against their masters and supporters of their masters in their quest to be free. Similarly, I wouldn’t judge any concentration/death camp internee for killing Nazis in their quest to be free (or even in the chaos of the aftermath), and I wouldn’t judge any American slaves and abolitionists, like Nat Turner or John Brown, for committing violence against slavers and supporters of slavery. Slavery is a crime against humanity, and slaves (and abolitionists) are entirely justified in using any and all efforts, including deadly force, to free themselves and their fellow slaves. I mean, if any group needed killing it’s slave labor camp owners. I think a part of the belief otherwise is either due to not understanding the absolute depravity of slavery in the Americas. People probably believe that the worst thing about being enslaved was to lose one’s “freedom,” while I’d say it was the torture, murder, and rape of untold millions. Another reason might be people know about all the evils of slavery, and they just don’t care. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-this-hater-of-his-own-race/775670/40 "2016-12-29T23:21:44Z")
> [@Nawth\_Chucka](#): > > Looks like the only race worth being loyal to is white, as far as the OP’s concerned. What’s incredibly weird to me is that the OP is presenting a historical **slave uprising and slaveowner massacre** as a **race-loyalty** issue, rather than one of mass murder and/or freedom-fighting in general. I could see somebody arguing in good faith that the rebelling Haitian slaves should be condemned as murderers because retaliatory violence never justified or whatever. I could also see somebody arguing in good faith that the slaves’ violence was justified because legitimate act of self-defense by the brutally oppressed or whatever. **What I can’t understand at all is somebody arguing that one’s view of the ethics of the situation should depend on which racial “team” they happen to belong to.** What kind of bizarre-ass racist relativism is **that**?! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-this-hater-of-his-own-race/775670.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screw-this-hater-of-his-own-race/775670.md?page=3)