My point is that seeing the sheer desperation/helplessness in a heroin addict is enough to warrant not legalizing the drug. I understand the benefits with regards to pure/impure heroin but legalizing the drug is certainly not a way to combat its use. I understand why people would want cannabis or even some form of a “party drug” to be legal but legalizing heroin would be like inflicting a plague on society.
I also think the initial “boom” from legalizing whichever drug would certainly increase its usage. People would be more inclined to try it out and I don’t think this would be good. Even with cannabis it’s so easy to lose your initial spark for life and just get stoned out every day.
You are confusing things here, the desperation and helplessness arises from prohibition! The stereotypical heroin addict selling their body and stealing family members possessions occurs because of the high prices of the black market, if the drug was available cheaply from say a pharmacy that would end the desperation and helplessness.
There is nothing stopping people from trying heroin today, in fact most heroin addicts start with pharmaceutical opiates and then as their tolerance rises and costs become a problem they move to heroin. Do you really think that is heroin was legalized today everyone would run out to try it? REALLY?!
I am not equating you with homophobes but I’ve heard similar reasoning from opponents to gay marriage and such, that if being gay is socially accepted everyone will run out and decide to become gay. There is no evidence that would happen, there is also no evidence just because addicts can now legally access their drug without desperation that heroin addiction would explode.
You seem to think that a legalisation of heroin would lead to more people using heroin and/or greater harm. I think that legalising heroin will lead to less people using it and lesser harm. Legalisation does not mean making it readily available. Today it IS readily available, if we legalise it we can regulate it. It also makes it easier for the desperate heroin addicts to seek help, since they will be treated as the sick people they are instead of criminal outcasts. So if you want to help heroin addicts to a better life, you should work towards making heroin legal.
Do you really think the government would sell something as addicting as heroin cheaply? A hit of smack in the UK is generally no more than £6. I don’t believe it would be that much more cheaper from a pharmacy due to the tax and lawsuits that would arise. Most heroin addicts do not start from pharmaceutical opiates, I don’t know what country you are basing this fact from but this is simply not true. I’m not saying that some addicts haven’t started on morphine and other opiates but to say the majority is just not true.
I apologize, I should’ve specified, I just edited my post at the last second. My second point was more to address cannabis. It’s not really about us as we are all aware of the effects of these drugs, it is the next generation I would fear for. Growing up in a society where you can buy a hit of smack from your local chemist is not something that we/they will benefit from.
You are equating me to a homophobe, which I am not. I’m sorry I didn’t specify; there is no reason to get carried away. I didn’t say it would explode? Are you incapable of an intelligent debate without twisting my words?
I didn’t I was referring to cannabis, however I don’t think that legalizing heroin would lead to less people using it. People use heroin as a way to escape reality, the mundayne average life that they cannot deal with. This will continue illegal/legal. So, you believe that every heroin user who goes to rehab will come out clean and stay clean? Heroin usage, especially addiction, is generally caused by an underlying personality disorder which leads them to the drug in the first place. It would certainly be more readily available if it was easy to purchase from a pharmacy. In case you aren’t aware, most heroin addicts don’t want to seek help, they want to take heroin. When do you draw the line saying “Oh, You’ve had enough heroin” ? If you are so certain that rehab completely cures heroin addicts then criminalize it even more. Rehab for being caught with personal use.
I personally have experienced this a few times. (Always when I was with people I didn’t know very well). Someone that I worked with that smoked regularly said that this, as well as the “munchies”, goes away if you smoke regularly. I never wanted to smoke regularly.
Not me. But I’ve known several (myself included) that lost their mind from drinking too much alcohol.
Where I went to high school it was actually easier for teenagers to get alcohol than in the next county over that was “wet”.
True, but then if you’re at the store buying weed, I would surmise you don’t have any weed any more. Else you’d be home, smoking weed. You don’t go out and buy weed while stoned, that’d be gluttony !
I think the real question is: Is there anything in the Constitution granting authority to the Congress to restrict what I do with or put into my body? I haven’t been able to find anything. So, all drugs should be legal. Easy.
Fine, then (your argument has actually been tried and found to be incorrect, so it’s not actually fine, but let’s pretend it is). Every state still bans just about every drug that the federal government bans. So, illegal drugs are still illegal. Easy.
The government can chose to sell heroin expensively or give it away for free or anything inbetween, since they don’t have to make a profit, like illegal drug dealers do. Of course people would prefer to buy their heroin in a safe, regulated enviroment knowing what they got, rather than buying what could be rat poinson from a criminal.
Today you are growing up in a society where you can buy dangerous drugs with unknown substances in them from dangerous and violent criminal networks. From what I understand this used to be true for alcohol in the US during the 20’s and didn’t work out well.
In the countries where use of heroin has been decriminalised, the use and abuse has gone down. Why would more people use it just because there is a legal framwork around it? We are not talking about selling heroin at 7-11 or allowing huge advertisment campaign. We are talking about treating addiction as an illness and finding ways for people that are suffering from heroin addiction to either live less unhealthy lives or even get access to ways of getting out of their situation.
Regarding cannabis… sure there are negative side effects, only a small group of people advocates cannabis as some sort of miracle medicine. There are negative side effects to the legal recreational drugs as well. Munchies and paranoia from weed, agressiveness and depression from alcohol, lung cancer from cigarettes. None of those negative side effects are treated by making the user a criminal.
Do you want drug addicts to be treated by the police or by doctors and nurses? Do you want the distribution of drugs to be handles by the government or criminal networks? Those are the relevant questions IMO. Research has already established that the repressive policies do more harm than good, so the only reason to keep them is either that you’re unaware of this (which the vast majority of people are) or that you think that punishing the “wrong” behaviour is more important than getting good results.
It has been found to be incorrect? That would be the part you should share, that part of the Constitution that says the Federal government owns my body and can dictate what I may or may not do with it, not that the state government isn’t a government and isn’t created and bound by a Constitution, and can do whatever it wants to.
Okay? The government can do what they want this it, but the question is, especially in these tough economic times, would the government sell something as addictive as heroin cheaper than on the streets? If so, I don’t see how it could be much cheaper than it is already. One of the main factors attracting people to heroin is how cheap it is and how effective it is.
Well, yes. In a previous post I already acknowledged that legalizing the drug would make it a lot cleaner. I can’t think of a reason why you needed to include this, especially when replying to me, other than to bulk your post out.
I believe every culture is different. I don’t see how you can base a countries legalization or lack thereof of something on what other countries have done. Take USA’s gun control problem for an example. I think that more people would be inclined to resort to the drug if it is legal. It is easier to get and less repercussions if caught. Eh, what? Pharmacies are situated throughout cities and towns so it doesn’t really matter if you are talking about 7-11’s or not. I don’t even know why you mentioned it because I didn’t. Nor did I mention a “huge advertising campaign”. I don’t see why you have to put words into my mouth, there is a lot to be gained from an intellectual discussion, you don’t have to be so concerned with “winning”. Do you think if you even removed the impurities from heroin that it would be a healthy drug to take? I am sure you don’t so it doesn’t really matter if it is somewhat less unhealthy. The fact is that it is unhealthy and destructive to society as a whole. As for cleaning them up, this is why it should remain illegal and tighter laws enforced. A heroin addict is not going to give up just because when he is buying his bag at the pharmacy they mention “Oh well what you’re doing there isn’t good”. They will continue to buy, probably more amounts, if it is offered in a clean way from a legal source.
Haha, I consider the munchies not to be a negative side-effect but I do understand what you are saying. Of course they aren’t treated by “making the user a criminal”. I didn’t say this so I don’t see why you keep twisting my words. Just because there are negative effects of legal drugs as well doesn’t mean we should legalize cannabis. Two wrongs don’t make a right. Aggressiveness and depression can also be caused by cannabis use. My point was that by keeping it illegal, we can at least forcibly send the offenders to rehab to clean themselves up. I hate to say it, but most drug-abusers need a kick the ass to send them in the right direction, and by offering them their drug of choice, for cheaper as you seem to believe, and cleaner, is not going to entice them to attend rehab.
I want them to be apprehended by the police, and then treated by doctors/nurses. I would prefer criminal networks to control the drug trade as it allows a certain amount of social stigma to be put on the topic. I think this is a strong combatant in why people don’t resort to drugs. If we allow it to be easily, cheaply and readily available from the nearest pharmacy then we are shooting ourselves in the foot. As I stated before I don’t think countries should rely on research conducted in different countries. We all have different cultures and ethics and should make the decision for ourselves. I didn’t say we should punish them, please, I’m sorry for mentioning it so much, but if you are going to reply to me in the future, quote me verbatim instead of using your rhetoric to try and shut down my argument. I believe they should be TREATED in a rehabilitation clinic. I am aware of relapses and such but at least we can say we offered them a chance. This may be viewed as punishment by the drug-taking community but I think that spending your life skagging out for your next hit of smack is punishment in itself.
I believe every culture is different. I don’t see how you can base a countries legalization or lack thereof of something on what other countries have done.
You don’t “believe” every culture is different, it is a logical fact that every culture is different, or there would only be one culture. But you can’t use that as an argument for how a successful policy in culture A would suddenly be unsuccessful in culture B. All human beings are different, but we’re also very simmilar. I’m a skinny atheist swede, my friend is a chubby muslim somalian, we both take asprins for a headache and it works for both of us. I think the burden of proof would be on the one claiming to be exceptional.
It matters to the person dying from overdoses or impurities, as well as to the people who have to deal with the fallout, including tax payers. Even a small improvement is better than no improvement.
This is what I used to believe, now… I don’t think I do anymore. It seems like the policies are actually more dangerous than the drugs themself. More of the same seems extremely destructuve.
This is not supported by facts, statistics or reason.
Forced rehab is incredibly ineffective. Incredibly. I was a magistrate for 4 years and this is just a huge waste.
You and I and the rest of society may want to give them a kick in the ass, but it is not what they need. They are already being kicked around more than most people.
I would say that depends on the method.
I agree with the second part, but since forced rehabilitation is a non-starter, I disagree with the first. This would still be better than the current situation where we tend to leave out the doctor/nurse part and focus on the police part.
I am sorry but I really do not think you mean what you are saying here. These networks are more destructive than all terrorist networks combined. When it comes to inflicting death and suffering, Al-Qaida has nothing on the mexican drug cartels. You can not possibly mean that the “positive” effects of some social stigma on a group of people who are already stigmatised outweighs the death and torture of millions of people. Take a minute to think about it.
Can we agree that it is easily, cheaply and readily available from illegal drug dealers today?
I don’t see the logic in this. If a vaccine or a new iPhone application is invented in Iceland, you will probably use it. I think it is up to you to prove why something that works in country X wouldn’t work in country Y, not the other way round.
Correlation is not causation. I’ve never met anyone who “lost his mind” from smoking weed, or known it to cause severe mental problems. I have, however, known people with existing severe mental problems (one with paranoid schizophrenia in particular) whose symptoms sometimes grew worse when they were under the influence. Not the same thing.
I’ve also known the very same paranoid schizophrenic to become calmer and less paranoid under the influence, so YMMV. In any case, the smoking was not the underlying cause of his mental problems.
Well okay I am happy you have never met anyone who went loopy from smoking too much. I have seen my friends, people who have had no previous history of mental illness, completely lose it from smoking too much. One of my friends was found walking aimlessly to a destination that was the complete opposite of where he was going. Many others fall victim to all the “Illuminati” and “Freemasonry” conspiracy theories and become recluses. I understand you have never seen this happen to anyone you know and I do envy you because of this. Also, if you think giving cannabis to a paranoid schizophrenic is a good idea then I’m sorry to insult you but you are a complete idiot. This is like throwing petrol on a fire.
The point I am trying to make is not that drugs are harmless and should be legalised, it is the OPPOSITE. My argument is that drugs shoould be legalised because they ARE harmful. I realise this sounds crazy at the get go, but it is the position I am arriving at after carefully considering what is actually going on w/r/t drug policy.
It is also the conclusion of people who are much smarter than me, who I have already mentioned. I’m open to the idea that my new position is wrong, but I would like arguments that are different from the ones that research seems to have debunked.
I typed out a really long reply to your original post but it either got deleted or didn’t go through, I don’t understand what has happened : [ . Please explain to me how legalizing heroin will cut heroin abuse figures. And I prefer to figure things out for myself rather than relying on “people who are much smarter than me” as even if I am proven wrong, I receive a far more thorough, in depth knowledge of the subject. What research are you referring to and what arguments specifically are debunked??
Sorry, but your reply is a little vague. I was asking you to tell me how legalizing heroin will cut heroin addiction, in your own opinion, if that’s possible.
