# Screwed by the Academy **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 1, 2007, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwed-by-the-academy/386337 "2007-01-01T20:20:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwed-by-the-academy/386337/61 "2007-01-05T08:46:43Z")
And I really liked “The Big Lebowski” myself but would not consider it an Oscar contender. (That was supposed to be “The General” in that last post above; my uncoordinated fingers betrayed me again.) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwed-by-the-academy/386337/62 "2007-01-05T13:03:43Z")
[QUOTE=commasense] My nomination for most screwed goes to Miranda Richardson, Joan Plowright, Vanessa Redgrave, and Judy Davis, who in 1993 all lost the Best Supporting Actress award to Marisa Tomei for her performance in _My Cousin Vinny_. This has simply got to be one of the _least_ deserved Oscars _ever_. I have nothing in particular against Ms. Tomei, but this was a B performance in a B film… [/QUOTE] Exactly why was Tomei’s performance not as worthy? I was certainly very, very impressed by it. She was hilarious, tender, smart and took a supporting character and made it the most interesting character on the screen. It was a tour de force. > [@](#): > > The award seems to have been a blatant bit of xenophobia to prevent it going to a British or Australian actress. The same year, a British actress won the Oscar for Best Actress (Emma Thompson) in a field with three Americans in it. Did the voters suddenly stop being xenophobic when they filled that ballot out? I mean, do you honestly think people voted for Marisa Tomei over Judy Davis because some of them remembered Davis was born in Australia? Any one of those other distinguished and immensely talented women would have been ten thousand times more deserving of the award. It was Plowright’s first and only nomination; the first of two for Richardson; the second of two for Davis, and the last of six noms (one of which was a win) for Redgrave. At the time of the nomination, each had a truly substantial body of work, Plowright and Redgrave having worked in film since before Tomei was born! (My personal favorite among Richardson’s performances was her turn as Elizabeth I in _Blackadder II_.) In 1993 Tomei had done some television and all of five feature films, in three of which she was little more than an extra. Nor can we claim that the Academy was prescient in recognizing a brilliant new talent. Can you name any big hits she’s been in since? She had the lead in _Only You_ with Robert Downey, Jr., a supporting role in _What Women Want_, and got another Best Supporting nod for a rather forgettable drama, _In the Bedroom_. I’ll give the Brass Figligee with Bronze Oak Leaf Palm to anyone who can name another film Marisa worked in without looking it up. She’s a pretty girl; not painful to watch; but not even close to being an Oscar-caliber talent. Those four ladies wuz robbed! - Maybe I shouldn’t admit this, but apparently I’m one of the few people who actually thinks _Oscar_ is a pretty funny film. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwed-by-the-academy/386337/63 "2007-01-05T15:22:38Z")
[QUOTE=BMalion] I vas not serious. It vas a voosh. [/QUOTE] Damn! I knew I was taking a chance with that! Well, I stand by my opinion that people _would_ argue over something like that here. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwed-by-the-academy/386337/64 "2007-01-05T16:01:41Z")
[QUOTE=Equipoise] **Untamed Heart** (my favorite film by her) **Slums of Beverly Hills The Paper Welcome to Sarajevo Marilyn Hotchkiss Ballroom Dancing & Charm School What Women Want** [/QUOTE] Very impressive! (Although I already gave you _What Women Want_.) So you’re a fan of Ms. Tomei? > [@](#): > > Keep your leaf palm, thanks anyway. No, no. A deal’s a deal. It’s in the mail. If you haven’t received it in, say, five years, send me an e-mail. 😃 > [@](#): > > My theory (is there an echo in here?) is that those 4 cancelled each other out, and there were just enough leftover votes to give the win to Marisa. Actually, this probably makes more sense than my xenophobia theory. > [@](#): > > The others didn’t _deserve to lose_, but _she_ didn’t deserve to lose either. That performance is much better than you give it credit for, and comedy is hard. I yield to no one in my belief that comedy is insufficiently recognized by the Academy, but _ **come on** _. She did a fine job, but the role was hardly a stretch, and how talented do you have to be to look good next to Ralph Macchio? Anyway, Joe Pesci was far funnier, as was Fred Gwynne, fer chrissakes (in his final performance, too), but neither of them got a nom. She was just clearly head and shoulders below the rest of the field. I’ve never seen Richardson’s performance in _Damage_, but I know all of the actresses’ work well enough to know that any of them could act rings around Tomei. > [@](#): > > The Oscar is given for a specific performance. It’s not given (or isn’t supposed to be given) for a lifetime of work or how many nominations one has or hasn’t received before. It certainly doesn’t and isn’t supposed to _predict future_ work. I only mentioned the other women’s histories to give a sense of their level of talent and experience relative to Tomei’s. And as others here have mentioned, the Academy does often recognize people for earlier work, even if that’s not the way it’s supposed to work. As for predicting the future, I was countering a possible argument that the members of the Academy sometimes see talent that us mere mortals take longer to recognize. Katharine Hepburn, for instance, won her first Oscar for _Morning Glory_ in 1933, her third film role (although she had had some Broadway experience). She was a relative unknown at the time (and frankly didn’t have much competition that year), but she certainly proved herself worthy, earning 11 more nominations and three more Oscars. I feel confident that Tomei will not follow suit. ---
**Author:** ![jacquilynne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jacquilynne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacquilynne)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwed-by-the-academy/386337/65 "2007-01-05T16:18:20Z")
Since then, Marisa has received another Academy Award nomination - for that ‘forgettable’ drama, In the Bedroom, which was nominated for a total of 5 awards, including Best Picture, so, yeah, it must have sucked - so it’s not like her career went nowhere from 1993. That gives her one more than Joan, ties her with Judy and Miranda. Which means, based on total Oscar nominations, Marisa was working well within her weight class. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwed-by-the-academy/386337/66 "2007-01-05T17:05:59Z")
Jeez, I didn’t realize I had stumbled into a meeting of the [Marisa Tomei fan club](http://fan-sites.org/marisa-tomei/)! (Ironically, the creator of her fan site has lost interest and says he is too bored to maintain it! So there!) I may be willing to grant that she’s getting better. But IMHO, her best day still doesn’t reach the level of the other four ladies’ worst. And even if she were as good as Meryl-bloody-Streep today, I will never be persuaded that she gave the best supporting performance of 1992. Also, I will defend the forgettableness of _In the Bedroom_ compared to all the other Best Picture nominees of that year: _A Beautiful Mind_ (the winner), _Gosford Park, LOTR 2,_ and _Moulin Rouge!_. I challenge anyone to honestly say that of those five, _ITB_ was the most memorable. It struck me as an unremarkable domestic drama that lost its claim to being taken seriously by using Hollywood’s favorite solution for any problem: kill the bad guy. I remember the film better than I remember Tomei’s performance in it, but that’s not saying much. But look, if you all think Marisa’s the greatest thing going, that’s fine. Remember, I’m the guy who thought Stallone was pretty funny in _Oscar_. (Actually, I think Peter Riegert and Tim Curry really stole that picture. Harry Shearer, too.) _De gustibus_ and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwed-by-the-academy/386337/67 "2007-01-05T17:50:05Z")
Don Cheadle got screwed two years ago: he should have won Best Actor for _Hotel Rwanda_. He was incredible and the movie was incredible. Jamie Foxx did a really good Ray Charles impersonation, so he got all the buzz, but it’s just not the same thing - and I say that as someone who liked _Ray_. I also thought _Rwanda_ deserved a crack at Best Picture. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwed-by-the-academy/386337/68 "2007-01-05T18:00:32Z")
**commasense:** > [@](#): > > I have nothing in particular against Ms. Tomei, but this was a B performance in a B film _My Cousin Vinny_ was a great film. And, surprisingly, one of the few movies out there to really get the legal aspects correct. ---
**Author:** ![jacquilynne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/67e7ee/32.png) [@jacquilynne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacquilynne)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwed-by-the-academy/386337/69 "2007-01-05T22:08:05Z")
[QUOTE=commasense] I may be willing to grant that she’s getting better. But IMHO, her best day still doesn’t reach the level of the other four ladies’ worst. And even if she were as good as Meryl-bloody-Streep today, I will never be persuaded that she gave the best supporting performance of 1992. [/quote] Well, I’ll stop trying then, no problem. I have other nits to pick with you, anyway: > [@](#): > > Also, I will defend the forgettableness of _In the Bedroom_ compared to all the other Best Picture nominees of that year: _A Beautiful Mind_ (the winner), _Gosford Park, LOTR 2,_ and _Moulin Rouge!_. I challenge anyone to honestly say that of those five, _ITB_ was the most memorable. It struck me as an unremarkable domestic drama that lost its claim to being taken seriously by using Hollywood’s favorite solution for any problem: kill the bad guy. I remember the film better than I remember Tomei’s performance in it, but that’s not saying much. That’s probably the only year in history I ever saw all of the best picture nominees in the theatre. I would say, of them, In the Bedroom was probably the fourth or fifth most forgettable movie. Gosford Park seems to have largely sailed right out of my head in the interim, as well. But ‘fourth or fifth most forgettable movie of the year’ is not a bad position to be in. I mean, compared to all the other movies that, say, weren’t nominated for a Best Picture Oscar? > [@](#): > > But look, if you all think Marisa’s the greatest thing going, that’s fine. I don’t really. I think she was really terrific in what should have been a fairly small role in a great comedy. She was once again terrific in a larger role in pretty serious drama. That shows remarkable range. Those might, however, have been the only two Marisa Tomei movies I’ve ever seen. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwed-by-the-academy/386337/70 "2007-01-05T22:43:31Z")
[QUOTE=Gadarene] _My Cousin Vinny_ was a great film. And, surprisingly, one of the few movies out there to really get the legal aspects correct. [/QUOTE] All I can say is that it’s a good thing that you didn’t make it to the DC Dopefest at the Brickskeller a couple months ago, because if the subject of _Vinny_ had come up, we might have come to blows! 😃 Since so many people seem to love that movie, and her performance, I’ll make a point of watching it again if I see it listed in the program guide. I won’t go out and spend money to rent it, or anything, but if it’s on any of the channels I get, I’ll take a look. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwed-by-the-academy/386337/71 "2007-01-05T22:50:10Z")
> [@](#): > > All I can say is that it’s a good thing that you didn’t make it to the DC Dopefest at the Brickskeller a couple months ago, because if the subject of Vinny had come up, we might have come to blows! Why do you think I didn’t show up? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwed-by-the-academy/386337/72 "2007-01-05T23:02:26Z")
In the Bedroom is a completely brilliant little human drama about heartbreak, and the way men and women deal differently with loss, and was a disturbing little moral drama. To peg it as a simple revenge thriller is to entirely miss the point of the film. I don’t think it was the best of those five Best Picture nominees, but that was an especially good year. I do think Tom Wilkinson deserved the Best Actor trophy, but he was passed over for a make-up award to Denzel Washington (himself passed over for his role in Malcolm X (one of the best performances in the history of cinema) by a scenery chewing Al Pacino). I remember being a bit surprised that they nominated Tomei again, but it certainly wasn’ t undeserved. Let go of your biases. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2007, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwed-by-the-academy/386337/73 "2007-01-05T23:03:32Z")
(P.S. I also think Oscar is a brilliant farce, and own it on DVD.) ---
**Author:** ![K364](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k364/32/5_2.png) [@K364](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/K364)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2007, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwed-by-the-academy/386337/74 "2007-01-10T05:14:18Z")
The 1974 Oscars featured a Battle of the Titans, arguably the most talent-laden field ever for Best Actor: 1. Albert Finney in “Murder on the Orient Express” 2. Dustin Hoffman in “Lenny” 3. Jack Nicholson in “Chinatown” 4. Al Pacino in “The Godfather, Part II” 5. ??? in ??? Yes, mystery man #5 was the winner: ART CARNEY in “Harry and Tonto” Bizarre! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwed-by-the-academy/386337.md?page=3)