# Screwing up the world with time travel **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 11, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwing-up-the-world-with-time-travel/637449 "2012-10-11T19:15:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwing-up-the-world-with-time-travel/637449/21 "2012-10-12T13:53:57Z")
Would someone have eventually taken Martin Luther’s role, had he been disintegrated right before nailing his treatise onto that church door? ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwing-up-the-world-with-time-travel/637449/22 "2012-10-12T14:16:02Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Would someone have eventually taken Martin Luther’s role, had he been disintegrated right before nailing his treatise onto that church door? Might there be a few more Jewish people alive today if he had been? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwing-up-the-world-with-time-travel/637449/23 "2012-10-12T14:34:33Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Going for biggest, but not necessarily horrific, changes in the modern world, I might zap either John Wilkes Booth or Lee Harvey Oswald in time to prevent their respective acts of infamy… There was an independent cartoon I saw many years ago at an animation festival that featured a cleaning woman who gets zapped by a time-travel ray. She ends up spinning through time, making brief, history-changing perturbsations throughout time. In one of these, she materializes in the back seat of that convertible in Dallas in November 1963 and says “Why don’t you and Jackie exchange seats?” ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwing-up-the-world-with-time-travel/637449/24 "2012-10-12T14:41:54Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Would someone have eventually taken Martin Luther’s role, had he been disintegrated right before nailing his treatise onto that church door? go back dressed as angel and disintegrate Luther before a large crowd. POOF! No Protestant reformation. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwing-up-the-world-with-time-travel/637449/25 "2012-10-12T14:54:07Z")
I was going to say preventing the birth of Albert Einstein but I’m not sure if the negative would outweigh the positive, so I started a thread about it [here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=668501) ---
**Author:** ![PaperBlob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/58956e/32.png) [@PaperBlob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaperBlob)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwing-up-the-world-with-time-travel/637449/26 "2012-10-12T14:54:51Z")
Assuming that zapping Jesus wouldn’t work (y’know, in case he really was God and all), how about killing the Apostle Paul, before his conversion? That would eliminate a bunch of books in the New Testament (assuming Paul really wrote all those epistles/letters), and, therefore, leave the religion free of his views and influence. Plus, who knows what would have happened to the early church without his guildance. Changing the course of Christianity could seriously change history. ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwing-up-the-world-with-time-travel/637449/27 "2012-10-12T16:05:42Z")
> [@PaperBlob](#): > > Assuming that zapping Jesus wouldn’t work (y’know, in case he really was God and all), how about killing the Apostle Paul, before his conversion? see post number #10. Yep avoiding any issues killing a deity is why I went with Saul / Paul instead of straight to the big JC. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwing-up-the-world-with-time-travel/637449/28 "2012-10-12T16:18:38Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > see post number #10. Yep avoiding any issues killing a deity is why I went with Saul / Paul instead of straight to the big JC. 'Cept that also runs the risk of offending a deity. Those guys are chronologically untouchable… Well I’m too scared to off them, atheist though I am. ---
**Author:** ![MegaBee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@MegaBee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaBee)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwing-up-the-world-with-time-travel/637449/29 "2012-10-12T18:05:07Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > Ok, sorry if I can’t arrange visions or disrupt in other ways just zap paul the apostle while he’s still Saul. Most likely Christianity would stay a fringe jewish only cult, the rest of world history would be radically different. Winner. ---
**Author:** ![MegaBee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f0a364/32.png) [@MegaBee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MegaBee)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwing-up-the-world-with-time-travel/637449/30 "2012-10-12T18:08:14Z")
> [@Szlater](#): > > 'Cept that also runs the risk of offending a deity. > > Those guys are chronologically untouchable… Well I’m too scared to off them, atheist though I am. If you aim the disintegrator at Saul, and Yaweh shows up, then use the disintegrator on HIM! ---
**Author:** ![PaperBlob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/58956e/32.png) [@PaperBlob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaperBlob)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwing-up-the-world-with-time-travel/637449/31 "2012-10-12T18:19:55Z")
> [@coremelt](#): > > see post number #10. Yep avoiding any issues killing a deity is why I went with Saul / Paul instead of straight to the big JC. :smack: I swear I looked to see if anybody had the same idea before I posted - not sure how I missed your post. Sorry about that! Carry on… ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwing-up-the-world-with-time-travel/637449/32 "2012-10-12T18:39:39Z")
There’s just a lot of these to consider. E.g., Ögedei, son of Genghis Khan was on the verge of sweeping into Europe when he died. The Mongol chiefs had to return home to elect a new Khan, giving Europe time to get it’s act together. Furthermore, the resulting dynastic disputes eventually lead to the breakup of the Mongol Empire. If you went back one generation and offed Genghis early in his expansion era, immense changes in history would have resulted. From the Jin dynasty in China, to the Caliphate in Baghdad, whole empires would have lasted a long longer. The Russians might have gotten their act together sooner and not have been so backwards until modern times. Poland and India would have much different histories, etc. Another very small act that had immense effects was the capture of a messenger to Hannibal from his brother Hasdrubal when the later was marching thru Italy to join forces. The Romans then had Hasdrubal’s plans, did a big trick involving two Roman armies secretly meeting up to attack him and the Carthaginians went from winning the war to losing. Ergo, a well timed attack on whoever got the messenger might have resulted in the Roman’s losing the 2nd Punic War, even being wiped out. Much of Europe would be speaking a Phoenician based languages instead of Romance ones. And much, much more. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwing-up-the-world-with-time-travel/637449/33 "2012-10-12T20:14:32Z")
Thinking way to small to be Dopers in here. The disintegrator works just as well on objects as it does on people. Grab your gun and head on back to the garden. Roast the tree of knowledge before Eve gets persuaded to chow down. Or if the gun doesn’t have enough juice for a whole tree, pick all the apples into a basket and vaporize it. Then take the trusty Husqvarna chainsaw to the tree. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwing-up-the-world-with-time-travel/637449/34 "2012-10-12T20:36:00Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > Thinking way to small to be Dopers in here. > > The disintegrator works just as well on objects as it does on people. Grab your gun and head on back to the garden. Roast the tree of knowledge before Eve gets persuaded to chow down. > > Or if the gun doesn’t have enough juice for a whole tree, pick all the apples into a basket and vaporize it. Then take the trusty Husqvarna chainsaw to the tree. Trouble with going after potentially (I’m being generous here) mythical things, that you’ll waste a perfectly good trip in a time machine and have nothing to show for it. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwing-up-the-world-with-time-travel/637449/35 "2012-10-12T20:42:44Z")
Show for it?! Who’s going to appreciate that you wasted the one and only possible time trip to go back and commit a murder, the consequences of which are unpredictable? And if you come back and everything has changed, for better or worse, how are you going to convince anybody that you are responsible for a major part of history? You can show them your rime machine – think they’ll buy that “Well, it doesn’t work anymore, but it DID!” story? ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwing-up-the-world-with-time-travel/637449/36 "2012-10-12T20:50:14Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > Show for it?! Who’s going to appreciate that you wasted the one and only possible time trip to go back and commit a murder, the consequences of which are unpredictable? > > And if you come back and everything has changed, for better or worse, how are you going to convince anybody that you are responsible for a major part of history? You can show them your rime machine – think they’ll buy that “Well, it doesn’t work anymore, but it DID!” story? Show for it, in the sense that you have accomplished an epic dick move… Not necessarily show other people 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mnemnosyne](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mnemnosyne/32/3347_2.png) [@Mnemnosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mnemnosyne)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwing-up-the-world-with-time-travel/637449/37 "2012-10-12T22:32:10Z")
I’m agreeing with taking out Octavian/Augustus Caesar before Actium. Although the Roman empire later survived lots of corruption, it only became as strong as it was largely through Augustus Caesar’s leadership. Rome may not have immediately collapsed, but it almost certainly would have diminished centuries earlier, and never achieved as much impact as it did. Of course…I wouldn’t even begin to be able to guess whether the resulting changes in history would make things better or worse now. It would certainly be significantly _different._ ---
**Author:** ![Astroboy14](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Astroboy14](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Astroboy14)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwing-up-the-world-with-time-travel/637449/38 "2012-10-12T23:09:16Z")
Kill either of my parents pre-1965 and the entire universe ceases to exist. ---
**Author:** ![Szlater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/90ced4/32.png) [@Szlater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Szlater)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwing-up-the-world-with-time-travel/637449/39 "2012-10-12T23:17:09Z")
> [@Astroboy14](#): > > Kill either of my parents pre-1965 and the entire universe ceases to exist. Solipsistic much? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2012, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwing-up-the-world-with-time-travel/637449/40 "2012-10-13T01:08:24Z")
What happens if I kill the guy who would have invented the time machine? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwing-up-the-world-with-time-travel/637449.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/screwing-up-the-world-with-time-travel/637449.md?page=3)