# Scripture debates - Satan, omnipotence, etc. \[split from 'Majority atheist world' thread\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 31, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308 "2011-12-31T19:30:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/181 "2012-01-04T18:54:20Z")
So, Theophane, you do know that the Garden of Eden thing didn’t actually happen, right? There were never only two humans, and no tree gave knowledge of good and evil? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/182 "2012-01-04T19:00:47Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > The Tree of Life was among the trees God permitted them to eat from. (Genesis 2:15-17) The only off-limits tree was the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. And off limits would have meant nothing to them… ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/183 "2012-01-04T19:02:54Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > He shut it down. Stationed an angel with a flaming sword to block the way back to the Tree of Life. What verse is _that_ in? ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/184 "2012-01-04T19:05:02Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > So, Theophane, you do know that the Garden of Eden thing didn’t actually happen, right? There were never only two humans, and no tree gave knowledge of good and evil? Is it a myth? It’s in the Bible, that’s all I know for sure. It must have some signficance even if it’s only a story. The events portrayed in the first few chapters of Genesis have far-reaching implications. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/185 "2012-01-04T19:05:59Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > What verse is _that_ in? 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/186 "2012-01-04T19:07:18Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > Is it a myth? It’s in the Bible, that’s all I know for sure. It must have some signficance even if it’s only a story. The events portrayed in the first few chapters of Genesis have far-reaching implications. Do _you_ believe that it is a myth, or do you believe that it is literally true? ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/187 "2012-01-04T19:08:03Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > And off limits would have meant nothing to them… The story is what it is. Take it or leave it. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/188 "2012-01-04T19:11:43Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > The story is what it is. Take it or leave it. Okay, I’ll leave it since it doesn’t make any sense. Do you think that it was a good thing that God punished A&E for something they didn’t even know was wrong? Does this strike you as an omnibenevolent act? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/189 "2012-01-04T19:12:37Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > 3:24 So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. Ah, thanks. A direct answer to a straightforward question. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/190 "2012-01-04T19:15:55Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Ah, thanks. A direct answer to a straightforward question. Technically speaking it appears as though the sword is not in the hands of the angel - it’s just sitting there, spinning… ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/191 "2012-01-04T19:25:52Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Do _you_ believe that it is a myth, or do you believe that it is literally true? I think it is a myth, although one that conveys certain truths of our existence that we would not otherwise be able to understand. If you’ve studied world mythology you’ll begin to notice the places where all these stories begin to link together. Common themes, archetypes, characters, and whatnot. I’m convinced that mythology is a product of the collective unconscious. Ever notice the similarity between the Yrgdrassil in Norse mythology and the Tree of Life in Judeo-Christian mythology? Or Lucifer and Prometheus? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/192 "2012-01-04T19:30:25Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > Technically speaking it appears as though the sword is not in the hands of the angel - it’s just sitting there, spinning… Eddie: Mine’s stuck on “twirl”, Chief… ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/193 "2012-01-04T19:32:29Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > I think it is a myth, although one that conveys certain truths of our existence that we would not otherwise be able to understand. If you’ve studied world mythology you’ll begin to notice the places where all these stories begin to link together. Common themes, archetypes, characters, and whatnot. I’m convinced that mythology is a product of the collective unconscious. > > Ever notice the similarity between the Yrgdrassil in Norse mythology and the Tree of Life in Judeo-Christian mythology? Or Lucifer and Prometheus? So you believe that the serpent mentioned in the story of Adam and Eve is a myth. No, I really don’t see any similarity between a king of Babylon and Prometheus-please explain. ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/194 "2012-01-04T19:34:45Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > Okay, I’ll leave it since it doesn’t make any sense. > > Do you think that it was a good thing that God punished A&E for something they didn’t even know was wrong? Does this strike you as an omnibenevolent act? They knew it was wrong because they had been explicitly warned about it. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/195 "2012-01-04T19:36:37Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > They knew it was wrong because they had been explicitly warned about it. Yeah-they were warned that they were going to die the day they ate it. _That_ didn’t happen, did it? ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/196 "2012-01-04T19:47:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Yeah-they were warned that they were going to die the day they ate it. _That_ didn’t happen, did it? You didn’t like my cite then? Alternatively… Maybe it refers to “spiritual” death. Maybe it doesn’t refer to a literal day. The idea that we’ve lost the precise meaning of the words in the 3000 years since they were written is more likely than the compilers of the Hebrew scriptures tossing in a story about God being a liar. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/197 "2012-01-04T20:08:42Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > They knew it was wrong because they had been explicitly warned about it. How would they know what ‘wrong’ was if they didn’t know good and evil? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/198 "2012-01-04T20:09:20Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > You didn’t like my cite then? > > Alternatively… > Maybe it refers to “spiritual” death. > Maybe it doesn’t refer to a literal day. > > The idea that we’ve lost the precise meaning of the words in the 3000 years since they were written is more likely than the compilers of the Hebrew scriptures tossing in a story about God being a liar. If we don’t know know what the words mean, maybe this story is of no use to us at all. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/199 "2012-01-04T20:27:23Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > Shoot, why can’t serpents talk **now**? The Bible doesn’t say that God made the serpents mute or anything… It’s all the dust they’ve been eating. Have you ever tried to talk with a mouth full of dust? ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/200 "2012-01-04T20:31:05Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > Who was the Serpent if not Satan? It _is_ fiction, you know. But again, _presumably_ the character is Satan because it fits the archetyoe, but technically it’s not Satan/Lucifer/etc. because it’s not named as such and he hadn’t been invented yet. > [@](#): > > The Serpent corrupted Adam and Eve in a bid to lead the whole human race astray. And it worked. But again, what’s the point? I’m looking around at the world and I see it’s ups and downs, but I don’t see how anything is profiting any supernatural evil dark lord. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308.md?page=11)