# Scripture debates - Satan, omnipotence, etc. \[split from 'Majority atheist world' thread\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 31, 2011, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308 "2011-12-31T19:30:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/161 "2012-01-04T17:51:48Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Are there any versions of the Bible out there that either say something different for Genesis 3:22, or leave it out completely? If not, then it’s pretty much universal that Adam and Eve were going to die anyway, and God lied. If Adam and Eve had steered clear of the Tree of Knowledge and kept eating from the Tree of Life, would they have lived forever? [That is disputed](http://www.nwcreation.net/immortality.html)in Christian circles. If Adam was created as an immortal being, what was the purpose of the Tree of Life? Was it the source of his immortality? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/162 "2012-01-04T17:51:55Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So when did he dismantle Eden? When he put up a parking lot. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/163 "2012-01-04T17:52:19Z")
Crikey, I pull up a cite and there are like six other posts to respond to now. ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/164 "2012-01-04T17:55:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So when did he dismantle Eden? He shut it down. Stationed an angel with a flaming sword to block the way back to the Tree of Life. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/165 "2012-01-04T17:58:00Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > He shut it down. Stationed an angel with a flaming sword to block the way back to the Tree of Life. Where is it, then? Did the animals who still resided there drown during the Flood? ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/166 "2012-01-04T18:01:41Z")
The most common interpretation I’ve seen is that A&E were immortal because they ate from the Tree of Life. Once they introduced evil into the garden by eating of the forbidden tree, and were expelled from the Garden, they were no longer immortal. Still not seeing how this makes God a liar. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Where is it, then? Did the animals who still resided there drown during the Flood? Nowhere. Are you unfamiliar with the concept of myth? ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/167 "2012-01-04T18:01:57Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Where is it, then? Did the animals who still resided there drown during the Flood? Yes, it’s implied that they did. In Genesis 6:17 God says to Noah, “I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish.” ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/168 "2012-01-04T18:02:26Z")
Also, if Satan is supposed to be the snake, then how’s he grow legs to pester Job? Compare: Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/169 "2012-01-04T18:04:46Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > If Adam and Eve had steered clear of the Tree of Knowledge and kept eating from the Tree of Life, would they have lived forever? [That is disputed](http://www.nwcreation.net/immortality.html)in Christian circles. If Adam was created as an immortal being, what was the purpose of the Tree of Life? Was it the source of his immortality? What do you mean **kept** eating from the tree of life? Where does it say that they ate from that tree at all? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/170 "2012-01-04T18:05:13Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > Yes, it’s implied that they did. > > In Genesis 6:17 God says to Noah, “I am going to bring floodwaters on the earth to destroy all life under the heavens, every creature that has the breath of life in it. Everything on earth will perish.” Do you believe that the events laid out in Genesis are literally true? That there was a Garden of Eden inhabited by Adam and Eve, and that a great flood covered the Earth? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/171 "2012-01-04T18:13:06Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > The most common interpretation I’ve seen is that A&E were immortal because they ate from the Tree of Life. Once they introduced evil into the garden by eating of the forbidden tree, and were expelled from the Garden, they were no longer immortal. Still not seeing how this makes God a liar. While that may be a common interpretation, I’m not seeing how to interpret the Bible that way. The Bible specifically says that A&E has to eat from the tree of life to live forever, not that they were either currently eating from the tree of life and no longer could or that they were immortal prior to sinning. In fact, why is there a tree of life at all if they were already immortal? Is it suggested that God knew that A&E would sin and thereby become mortal and he created a tree that would enable them to become immortal again only to cut them off from access to it? Here’s the verse: 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/172 "2012-01-04T18:13:30Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > Eugin J. Pentiuc, in his book “Jesus the Messiah in the Hebrew Bible” Good cite,\*\* Skammer\*\*. Does Pentuic address the Hebrew word for “that day” or “on that day” immediately preceding the words he talks about in the cite? It seems to me that if the words preceding mot and tamut include a word for today or that day, then his interpretation is a stretch. One of the things that happens with Christian apologists of a certain sort (inerrantists, omni-max believers) is that they work backward from the assumption that God can’t be wrong and neither can the book. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/173 "2012-01-04T18:17:55Z")
How did the _serpent_ know? Had he been noshing on the fruit himself? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/174 "2012-01-04T18:25:30Z")
Hmmm… Rereading Genesis 2, some verses: 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. + 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat I suppose this lends a bit of credence to the idea that A&E could have been eating from the tree of life. So my prior confidence was misplaced. I’m not very knowledgeable of Hebrew, so I can’t really comment other than to say that the translations **appear** to suggest that A&E would only have to eat from the tree of life once. 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/175 "2012-01-04T18:27:03Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > How did the _serpent_ know? Had he been noshing on the fruit himself? Shoot, why can’t serpents talk **now**? The Bible doesn’t say that God made the serpents mute or anything… ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/176 "2012-01-04T18:32:42Z")
For the matter, in _Exodus_ the Egyptian wise men could turn their staves into snakes (albeit weak ones that got eaten by Moses’ staff-snake). Seems like a useful talent. Why didn’t they pursue this? By now, Egypt could be mass-producing armies out of bread crumbs or something. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/177 "2012-01-04T18:35:38Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > Hmmm… Rereading Genesis 2, some verses: > > 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. > + > 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat > > I suppose this lends a bit of credence to the idea that A&E could have been eating from the tree of life. So my prior confidence was misplaced. I’m not very knowledgeable of Hebrew, so I can’t really comment other than to say that the translations **appear** to suggest that A&E would only have to eat from the tree of life once. > > 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: It sounds like God wasn’t really in control when it comes to these two trees. If the reason for the banishment was so that Adam didn’t eat from the other tree, then why didn’t he just change it into a regular tree, or just remove it altogether? What’s with this throwing Adam out of the garden and putting up a guardian angel at the gate? Now you have the garden containing two trees that absolutely no one can get to and/or use. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/178 "2012-01-04T18:36:57Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > For the matter, in _Exodus_ the Egyptian wise men could turn their staves into snakes (albeit weak ones that got eaten by Moses’ staff-snake). Seems like a useful talent. Why didn’t they pursue this? By now, Egypt could be mass-producing armies out of bread crumbs or something. And why is it that Goofy can walk and talk, but Pluto can’t? ---
**Author:** ![Theophane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@Theophane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Theophane)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/179 "2012-01-04T18:42:28Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > What do you mean **kept** eating from the tree of life? > > Where does it say that they ate from that tree at all? The Tree of Life was among the trees God permitted them to eat from. (Genesis 2:15-17) The only off-limits tree was the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308/180 "2012-01-04T18:51:24Z")
> [@Theophane](#): > > The Tree of Life was among the trees God permitted them to eat from. (Genesis 2:15-17) The only off-limits tree was the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Then why, in all the time they were there, they hadn’t yet eaten from it? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scripture-debates-satan-omnipotence-etc-split-from-majority-atheist-world-thread/608308.md?page=10)