I’m not aware of any pre-PC-AT 3270 emulators. The first Irma board I remember required a PC-AT system. Irma used the SysReq key for it’s intented purpose, and the Irma board was the IBM recommended solution. And you may have forgotton, but there was a 122-key keyboard for PC specifically for circumstances using 3270 or 5250 emulators and requiring the additional programmable keys, but in practice, I never saw admins using the extra keys, usually just the standard keyboard. I did personally use 5250 emulators, and the sysreq key is required for use, the extra keys you mention were not required for any system use.
Your explanation does add information, but does not negate my post - the intended function you suggest is consistent with the sysreq key’s function on other IBM operating systems, and the source of it.
dr.andrew.e.mossberg
–Don’t expect the SysRQ key to “die” anytime soon. It’s a very useful emergency/admin feature in Linux. If these “new” keyboards don’t include the label on the key, I won’t buy them.
IBM had BiSync and SDLC-based 3270 emulators long before it had coaxial adaptors; the first Irma board came out in 1982, two years before the PC AT; and the 122-key keyboard came out years after the PC-AT.
*PLEASE//i] check your facts before posting. You are being simply wrong about ascertainable issues of history.
And your statement that the F11, F12, PA1, and PA2 keys “were not required” makes me doubt that you have the slightest idea of what you’re talking about. The 3270 was chiefly sold for user-designed, user-coded applications, for which no key can be casually dismissed as “not required” and the chief IBM-coded application was TSO/ISPF, where those keys are most assuredly needed.
Even though the article had no profanity, no porn content whatsoever, no pictures of pornography, no links to pornographic content, no lists of provocative file names, no links to 122MB MPEGs of hardcore gay Pikachu anime, and no sexual content at all?
Without going into the details of why I don’t understand how the mere words “lesbian” and “porn” when used in a non-provacative and clearly joking sense would be offensive to anyone, I honestly apologize if the reference causes you or anyone else discomfort. But as far as things go with Cecil’s Columns, Staff Reports, and the forums in general on the SDMB, I’d say that my article was pretty close to “G” rated here.
Hmmm…the next article explores the sexuality of the Teletubbies - whilst discussing convective and evaporative heat transfer. I guess that’s not going to go over well either…
[ complete tangent ] Well, my firm once sent out an email to all clients about an important change in the sexual harrassment laws, that we felt they should know about. Amazin’ how many clients’ email rejected the notice because it contained the word “sexual.” [ / complete tangent ]
John, you are hostile for no apparent reason. Clearly you are an expert of considerable experience, but perhaps you should read my note more closely. You said:
>>IBM had BiSync and SDLC-based 3270 emulators long before it had coaxial adaptors; the first Irma board came out in 1982, two years before the PC AT; and the 122-key keyboard came out years after the PC-AT.
a) I clearly said the first IRMA board I saw required a PC-AT. I did not say nor do I know if there were IRMA boards earlier than that.
b) I never said that there were not other 3270 emulators. I also clearly did say that I am not aware of any earlier 3270 emulators than the one I specifically mention.
c) I never said anything about when a 122-key keyboard became available. I saw one in 1985 on a PC-AT with Irma board.
d) In 1984/85, when I was setting up Internet & UNIX labs at a local University, administration had PC’s with IRMA boards. The IRMA board they had required a PC-AT system.
e) your comments regarding the PF/PA are inconsistent. Perhaps the applications you used or had experience with relied on them. In the applications I saw, they were not used often, and no one in my department felt the need to get the more expensive keyboard option because of their absense.
You also said:
>And your statement that the F11, F12, PA1, and PA2 keys “were not required” makes me doubt that you have the slightest idea of what you’re talking about. The 3270 was chiefly sold for *user-designed, user-coded applications, for which no key can be casually dismissed as “not required” and the chief IBM-coded application was TSO/ISPF, where those keys are most assuredly needed.
You misquote me, perhaps intentionally. My full sentence was " I never saw admins using the extra keys, usually just the standard keyboard. I did personally use 5250 emulators, and the sysreq key is required for use, the extra keys you mention were not required for any system use." Perhaps you understood “admins” to mean system administrators or operators. I used it in term of “administrative employees” - i.e. administrative assistants, secretaries, etc who used a particular set of applications on the IBM mainframe. Not programmers, not system operators. Perhaps you neglected to note that I state that my in my experience with 5250 emulators, the extra keys were not required. Note 5250. Not 3270. 5250 terminal to a System 3x minicomputer. TSO/ISPF is not a System 3x application. No doubt you have extensive big iron experience, valuable as that may be. I’m quite sorry that my direct experience and knowledge acquired hands-on doesn’t jibe with yours. What can I say? Not everyone works in the same environment.
I am “hostile”, as you choose to put it, because this nonsense has been going on here for a week, and I am sick to death of people popping up with new ignorant speculations and false memories every few hours.
If you knew you were ignorant, why did you confuse the issue?
If you knew you were ignorant, why did you confuse the issue?
If you knew you were ignorant, why did you confuse the issue?
No, they are not. The 3270 was chiefly designed for user-designed, user-written applications. Therefore, users used them at their own discretion, and therefore IBM was in no position to say, “Oh, those keys aren’t important.”
In other words, you’re arguing from a position of ignorance.
No, because the 3270 is a buffered terminal that communicates with the mainframe only when Enter, PFn (like Fn on a PC) or a couple of other keys are depressed. As far as I know, “Press any key” entered IBM’s sphere with the PC. It may have existed earlier on pre-IBM personal computers, or on duplex terminals such as were used on DEC systems.
mossberg: << You misquote me, perhaps intentionally >>
John Kennedy: << Go to hell. >>
[Moderator hat on] OK, ENOUGH. These comments are NOT appropriate in this forum. You want to talk that way, go to the Pit.
John, you’ve been around long enough to know better, so consider this a VERY HARD smack upside the head. Look, I know you’re frustrated, this topic got threadspotted (or whatever the hell they call it), so we’ve been getting a rash of first time, probably one-time only, posters. They may have valid points, they may be ignorant as feces, but they’re swarming like termites. My suggestion is to ignore them all. Wait a week or two, then we can separate the grain from the chaff, respond to the ones that need response, see if any of them are more than just one-shot shoppers, and laugh at (or delete) the ones that are just kids showing off. Deal?
Mossberg, you’re new here, so you get some slack, but watch it, you’re treading on very thin ground. We don’t allow insults in this forum. I know, it’s kinda confusing whether you’re doing the insulting or being insulted, but please watch your language in future. This forum is intended for POLITE discussion. You want to call someone a dipshit, go to the forum called THE BBQ PIT.
I’m cracking the whip to get attention. I trust that another crack of the whip will not be necessary.
