# Scuba Charter Disaster in California: over 30 feared dead.\[Sept.2019\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 2, 2019, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592 "2019-09-02T16:57:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/41 "2019-09-03T02:45:55Z")
> [@Spiderman](#): > > Assuming that was the cause, propane is one of the most expansive fuels when it explodes, meaning the fireball will expand faster & farther than with other flammable liquids like gasoline. Below is a surveillance camera video of a food truck propane canister exploding. This is outside, not a confined space like a boat galley & you can see the fireball goes across multiple lanes of traffic. It’s not going to expand any less in a confined space but it will blow out more windows/doors/walls, etc. If it was a propane explosion, it’s amazing that they got a “Mayday” out before abandoning ship. They didn’t it turns out. According to an eye witness account, they were blown off the boat and swam to a different boat which made the Mayday call. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/42 "2019-09-03T02:55:26Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > The reports that it was a group from the city of Santa Cruz may have been wrong and just early confusion with Santa Cruz Island. There were apparently locals who were killed too. The boat was chartered by Worldwide Diving Adventures, which is based in the city of Santa Cruz, California, well north of Santa Cruz Island. I don’t know where the passengers were from. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/43 "2019-09-03T03:06:21Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > They didn’t it turns out. According to an eye witness account, they were blown off the boat and swam to a different boat which made the Mayday call. A couple of the crew had some pretty significant injuries that jibe with that account. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/44 "2019-09-03T03:43:01Z")
I don’t know any more than anybody else here, but I agree that there’s not a whole lot that anyone could have done to help the passengers if it was indeed a propane explosion as has been hypothesized. Propane is heavier than air, so it tends to sink and build up in low areas (like bilges and below-deck compartments). If an explosive concentration is reached in one of these areas, all it takes is a spark to set off a conflagration. I’ve seen the aftermath of two buildings that blew up from gas explosions, one from natural gas and one from propane. I was about five miles away from the propane explosion, which completely leveled a church in my town, and I heard it quite clearly. (I remember thinking to myself, “If I hear follow-up explosions, I’ll get worried…and see if we’re under attack.”) :dubious: In any event, there’s not a whole lot of alternatives for a relatively small boat, I wouldn’t think. Liquid fuels (like kerosene or Coleman fuel) are even more dangerous onboard a small vessel. A small vessel likely isn’t able to produce the amount of electricity necessary for an electric stove. If propane is utilized in the galley of a small vessel, maybe it would be prudent to require that vessels that utilize propane for cooking have [combustible gas detectors](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0776JTF59/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_7WDBDbQSHE99Z) installed in areas where it could build up, like below decks. Here’s a [portable version](https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07BM1XWB8/ref=cm_sw_em_r_mt_dp_U_g0DBDbHYMQES0), and here’s a [marine version](https://www.westmarine.com/WestAdvisor/Selecting-Vapor-Detectors). I’m actually surprised something like this isn’t already required. From the last website: > [@](#): > > Fume detectors monitor the concentration of dangerous gasses in the air and sound an alarm to warn of a potentially dangerous situation. They help prevent explosions or fires from concentrations of gasoline vapor or propane gas. > > …Propane is by far the most popular onboard heating and cooking fuel because it is efficient, cheap and readily available wherever you go. Propane is heavier than air and settles below deck in enclosed spaces like storage lockers and the bilge where an electrical spark can ignite it. > > …You don’t want an alarm to go off a second before the concentration of harmful gasses reaches explosive levels, which is why gasoline, propane and CNG detectors set off the alarm at 10 to 20 percent of the LEL [lower explosive limit]. This extra warning gives you time to fix whatever the problem is before vapors reach dangerous levels. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/45 "2019-09-03T05:08:25Z")
There will be an official update at 10 am tomorrow. The latest is 29 dead and nine missing. Someone who was on that same boat earlier this summer said in an interview that there were two exits, the main one and a rear escape hatch. ---
**Author:** ![Bookkeeper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bookkeeper/32/281_2.png) [@Bookkeeper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bookkeeper)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/46 "2019-09-03T05:24:46Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > There will be an official update at 10 am tomorrow. > > The latest is 29 dead and nine missing. > > Someone who was on that same boat earlier this summer said in an interview that there were two exits, the main one and a rear escape hatch. If the explosion was as sudden as apparently happened, it’s not likely that anyone below had a chance to reach either exit. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/47 "2019-09-03T06:15:14Z")
> [@robby](#): > > I don’t know any more than anybody else here, but I agree that there’s not a whole lot that anyone could have done to help the passengers if it was indeed a propane explosion as has been hypothesized. Propane is heavier than air, so it tends to sink and build up in low areas (like bilges and below-deck compartments). If an explosive concentration is reached in one of these areas, all it takes is a spark to set off a conflagration. Does anyone here know if levels could have built up to a point where the people below deck may have been asphyxiated, or at least unconscious, before the explosion? I guess the autopsies would tell us that. ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/48 "2019-09-03T07:22:49Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > I don’t care if you know the crew or not. I don’t care if you’re offended by the preceding posts. I don’t even know any of these people and your attitude on screen—that someone might actually dare to question the actions of the crew—is still beginning to piss me off. > [@](#): > > Thirty people placed their lives in the crew’s hands at sea and are now dead, in a particularly nightmarish way. The crew managed to save their own asses > [@](#): > > doesn’t happen on a US flagged diesel-fuelled motor vessel absent intentional action or gross negligence. > [@](#): > > I mourn the victims and I await the Coast Guard’s determination of what happened. So you know fuck all about what actually happened but reserve your right to denigrate the crew members regardless? I suspect mourning the victims is low on your list of priorities. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/49 "2019-09-03T09:32:20Z")
Some updates. 25 bodies found. 9 missing. > **[California boat fire: More bodies found off Santa Cruz Island](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49556638)** > > At least 25 are confirmed to have died in a boat blaze that trapped sleeping passengers below deck. > [@from article](#): > > Those who escaped the fire may have been sleeping in the main cabin of the boat rather than below. They were awake and had jumped off the boat’s bridge before a Good Samaritan vessel called The Grape Escape arrived to rescue them. > > … > > The owner of the Grape Escape, Bob Hansen, told the New York Times that the boat was engulfed in flames, “from stem to stern”. > “I could see the fire coming through holes on the side of the boat,” he said. "There were these explosions every few beats. You can’t prepare yourself for that. It was horrendous. So this was a true nightmare no matter how this happened. Awful beyond anything. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/50 "2019-09-03T10:18:06Z")
> [@Gray\_Ghost](#): > > Their boat blew up killing thirty of their clients. Rudeness at a minimum is warranted towards the vessel operator and crew. Are you suggesting it was an Act of God that killed those people? Or that it was unforeseeable that letting the operator of a vessel, with a grossly inadequate means of exiting a confined lodging space, charter said vessel to the public might result in a tragedy? > > Yes, inferring the crew and or operators were negligent sounds appropriate. ’ You’re still making assumptions based on no evidence. We _don’t know_ why this happened. We _don’t know_ whether it was negligence or something else. We _don’t know_ whether or not the crew tried to save the passengers - at a certain point it’s just not possible to get through fire, life is not a Hollywood movie where the hero can always brave the flames and survive. And I don’t know if you’ve ever been on a ship that small, but they are invariably somewhat cramped with limited exits from the hold. Space aboard a ship is always at a premium. If everything above the sleeping area was on fire it might not have mattered how many exits there were, it would be impossible to exit. More than one of the five survivors was seriously injured. The 911 recordings are pretty harrowing, with the speaking crewmember sometimes incoherent and having breathing troubles. Let the authorities investigate and get some facts, then we’ll know what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Darryl\_Lict](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7cd45c/32.png) [@Darryl\_Lict](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darryl_Lict)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/51 "2019-09-03T13:08:19Z")
Ugh, this breaks my heart. I have friends who dive off of this boat and I hope no one I know was on board. I was invited to go on a rafting trip down the Grand Canyon with a bunch of people, one of whom was a captain of one of the three Truth boats. I assume he is rafting and was not on the boat. I’'m really anxious about seeing the passenger list. I looked up Twin Bridges, where the charter group was from and it looks like it was near Tahoe. I was on the Truth, a different boat owned by the same company about a month ago for a wonderful whale watching trip where we saw a dozen humpbacks, a couple hundred dolphins, and the season’s first blue whale (might have been a fin whale). These boats are well known in the community, and everyone is freaking out. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/52 "2019-09-03T13:53:13Z")
I wonder if more egress points would have helped, or was the nature of the explosion and fire such that it would not? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/53 "2019-09-03T13:57:21Z")
The really depressing thing is that, as far as we know, nobody had time to call or text anyone before they died. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/54 "2019-09-03T14:18:29Z")
The responders that go into that boat will need counseling afterwards. Burn victims are especially horrific and grotesque scenes. I wouldn’t want to go into that boat after the fire cools. Someone has to retrieve the body’s for the families. It’s going to be a difficult job. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/55 "2019-09-03T14:23:14Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > The really depressing thing is that, as far as we know, nobody had time to call or text anyone before they died. Yes, because family members feel _so_ much better when they get panicked calls from dying relatives. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/56 "2019-09-03T14:27:20Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Does anyone here know if levels could have built up to a point where the people below deck may have been asphyxiated, or at least unconscious, before the explosion? I guess the autopsies would tell us that. Maybe. According to the USDOT [Emergency Response Guidebook](https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/hazmat/erg/emergency-response-guidebook-erg), petroleum gas vapors, in addition to being extremely flammable, “may cause dizziness or asphyxiation without warning.” This is a horrible tragedy. Hopefully it will spur regulatory changes to prevent a similar tragedy from happening again. On a personal level, I mentioned upthread that I have witnessed the aftermath of two explosions, from leaking natural gas and propane, respectively, inside of buildings over the last couple of decades. It occurs to me that my house is currently heated with propane, and I have no combustible gas detectors in my house. It’s not something that ever occurred to me to get, and they certainly aren’t required by building code. The main safety factor for propane is the odorant that is added (ethyl mercaptan, which smells like rotten eggs), but it can lose its protective effect if people are asleep or have a diminished sense of smell (which can happen to anybody due to olfactory fatigue). In my house, we currently have smoke detectors (which are required, of course), and CO detectors (which are strongly recommended), but that’s it. I’m going to look into getting combustible gas detectors for my house. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/57 "2019-09-03T14:30:37Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I wonder if more egress points would have helped, or was the nature of the explosion and fire such that it would not? From what was posted above, there were stairs at the front of the sleeping/shower area and a rear escape hatch. If no one made it out of either one, I can’t see anyone making it out of one in between them. Boats of this size just don’t have lot of access points to the below-decks area. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/58 "2019-09-03T14:34:06Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > The really depressing thing is that, as far as we know, nobody had time to call or text anyone before they died. Yes, the whole thing is depressing but the alternative would mean a protracted death. I think the loved ones would understand and hope for the least amount of suffering. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/59 "2019-09-03T15:04:11Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > I hope Qadgop’s neighbor isn’t checking in because she wasn’t on the boat and is off the grid for whatever reason. > > ☹ She was there. Our little town is in mourning. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2019, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/60 "2019-09-03T15:11:05Z")
My condolences, Qadgop, and also to all the others touched by this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592.md?page=4)