# Scuba Charter Disaster in California: over 30 feared dead.\[Sept.2019\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 2, 2019, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592 "2019-09-02T16:57:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/81 "2019-09-04T12:20:14Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > A boat blew up earlier this summer. Arkansas Game and Fish suspects built up gas fumes and or spilled gas. I’ve launched my boat at that ramp many times. > [https://www.fox16.com/news/local-news/mom-suffers-severe-burns-in-garland-co-boat-explosion/](https://www.fox16.com/news/local-news/mom-suffers-severe-burns-in-garland-co-boat-explosion/) > > I don’t know if a similar situation happened on the dive boat. It’s certainly a possibility. Explosions that happen at the ramp are often caused by fumes built up in the bilge/engine compartment. That’s why you run your blower for a few minutes before starting the boat. For a boat that’s out on the water already, the bilge pumps have been operating all along, although they can fail. [Cite/discussion](https://rinkerboats.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/2488/when-to-use-blower-and-bilge) ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/82 "2019-09-04T15:52:06Z")
[They’ve recovered 33 of the 34 bodies now.](https://apnews.com/e599219b14bc4ee49ba4eae0b382a1fb) ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/83 "2019-09-04T15:55:08Z")
One man who was interviewed on Good Morning America this morning had lost five family members, his parents and his three sisters. I cannot imagine his heartbreak right now. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/84 "2019-09-04T17:34:22Z")
How horrible. > [@hajario](#): > > Someone who was on that same boat earlier this summer said in an interview that there were two exits, the main one and a rear escape hatch. I am no nautical engineer, but for a boat of this size, two exits, widely separated, would seem at least adequate. Having only one might be dangerous, but knowing there were two makes me feel like the design didn’t contribute to the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/85 "2019-09-04T18:30:48Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > How horrible. > > I am no nautical engineer, but for a boat of this size, two exits, widely separated, would seem at least adequate. Having only one might be dangerous, but knowing there were two makes me feel like the design didn’t contribute to the problem. The most recent news report I saw this morning says that the escape hatch didn’t lead to the rear or outside of the boat, but to the deck above, in the dining area next to the galley. > **[Lack of escape routes in California boat fire becomes focus as investigation...](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-09-03/escape-routes-blocked-by-fire-doomed-passengers-of-conception)** > > California Boat Fire: There is growing focus on the limited escape route on the boat where 34 died in the worst maritime disaster in modern California history > [@](#): > > “There was a stairwell to get down the main entry way up and down and there was an escape hatch and it would appear as though both of those were blocked by fire,” he said. > > The main staircase led into the galley, and the hatch opened into the adjacent mess area, both of which were engulfed in flames. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/86 "2019-09-04T22:32:44Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > Explosions that happen at the ramp are often caused by fumes built up in the bilge/engine compartment. That’s why you run your blower for a few minutes before starting the boat. For a boat that’s out on the water already, the bilge pumps have been operating all along, although they can fail. > > [Cite/discussion](https://rinkerboats.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/2488/when-to-use-blower-and-bilge) If the purpose of the fan is to evacuate potentially explosive gas then yes. If not it assumes a sealed fan motor or a unit that blows into the bilge versus pulling the air from the bilge. Otherwise you risk igniting fumes. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/87 "2019-09-04T22:45:21Z")
> [@Sailboat](#): > > How horrible. > > I am no nautical engineer, but for a boat of this size, two exits, widely separated, would seem at least adequate. Having only one might be dangerous, but knowing there were two makes me feel like the design didn’t contribute to the problem. If this is a propane issue then no amount of exits might have helped. Propane won’t explode in the classic sense. It will expand out and burn up all the oxygen around it. [video.](https://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/propane-leak-leads-explosion-minutes-45335558). This was a small leak and you can see it rapidly burn along the floor line where the heavier than air gas leaked and then ignited off the pilot light of the water heater. If there is no ignition source close to the ground then the gas builds up until it finds an ignition source. It then pushes itself outward from that source as it burns. ---
**Author:** ![sps49sd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@sps49sd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sps49sd)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2019, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/88 "2019-09-05T00:45:36Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > …I wouldn’t want to go into that boat after the fire cools. Someone has to retrieve the body’s for the families. It’s going to be a difficult job. The boat is sunk in 64 feet of water. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2019, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/89 "2019-09-05T03:05:45Z")
One interesting fact came out today. One of the people who perished was the cook who was hired for the charter. He’d worked for them many times before. He would typically start preparing breakfast at around 4am which was when the fire started. The galley fire hypothesis makes more sense now. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2019, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/90 "2019-09-05T04:12:40Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > One interesting fact came out today. One of the people who perished was the cook who was hired for the charter. He’d worked for them many times before. He would typically start preparing breakfast at around 4am which was when the fire started. The galley fire hypothesis makes more sense now. I hadn’t heard that yet, but today was crazy at work and I haven’t kept up with the news. It completely makes sense though given what we know. If the galley’s on fire then neither of the exits are workable. I did walk down to the harbor at lunch to look at the growing memorial. Couple thoughts: that’s more news trucks than I think I’ve ever seen in one place, and seeing Vision and Truth with the empty berth between then was a sobering moment to say the least. ---
**Author:** ![Esprise\_Me](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprise_me/32/2947_2.png) [@Esprise\_Me](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprise_Me)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2019, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/91 "2019-09-05T07:01:55Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > One interesting fact came out today. One of the people who perished was the cook who was hired for the charter. He’d worked for them many times before. He would typically start preparing breakfast at around 4am which was when the fire started. The galley fire hypothesis makes more sense now. The distress call went out at 3:15 a.m., so that timeline doesn’t work. Also the owner of the boat was interviewed and stated the kitchen was all electric, so not a gas leak. Could be an electrical fire or exploded battery; divers use a lot of rechargeable lithium ion batteries and typically leave them charging overnight, often on a table in the galley, where the fire appears to have started. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2019, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/92 "2019-09-05T11:44:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If this is a propane issue then no amount of exits might have helped. Propane won’t explode in the classic sense. It will expand out and burn up all the oxygen around it. [video.](https://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/propane-leak-leads-explosion-minutes-45335558). This was a small leak and you can see it rapidly burn along the floor line where the heavier than air gas leaked and then ignited off the pilot light of the water heater. If there is no ignition source close to the ground then the gas builds up until it finds an ignition source. It then pushes itself outward from that source as it burns. Slow burns like the one in your video happen when there is inadequate opportunity for the fuel to mix with the air before ignition. the “small” leak in your video was large enough that a river of mostly homogenous propane was able to reach the burner; the progress of the flame front after that is limited by mixing of the propane and air. See figure M3-10 on page 17 of [this PDF file](https://umd.instructure.com/courses/643394/files/14931449/download?download_frd=1): hydrogen, acetylene and ethylene burn pretty fast, but the alkanes (methane, ethane, propane, butane, etc.) are all in the same ballpark, and in fact propane actually has a flame speed slightly higher than natural gas, the latter of which is famous for occasionally blowing houses to bits. Bottom line, if a propane vapor cloud is given adequate time for air to diffuse into it, then you have a mixture that is capable of rapid combustion. Were this not true, it would not be possible for internal combustion engines to run at their usual range of speeds when using propane. [Here is a premixed propane-air explosion.](https://youtu.be/HhXNs8EVQck?t=96) > [@Spiderman](#): > > Assuming that was the cause, propane is one of the most expansive fuels when it explodes, meaning the fireball will expand faster & farther than with other flammable liquids like gasoline. Below is a surveillance camera video of a food truck propane canister exploding. This is outside, not a confined space like a boat galley & you can see the fireball goes across multiple lanes of traffic. It’s not going to expand any less in a confined space but it will blow out more windows/doors/walls, etc. If it was a propane explosion, it’s amazing that they got a “Mayday” out before abandoning ship. > > Spoilered only for graphic content (two people died in this explosion, though you can’t see them in this video) > > [food truck propane explosion](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGGlddddi_0&t=19s) The video you linked to shows a more complex event, a [boiling-liquid/expanding-vapor explosion (BLEVE).](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_liquid_expanding_vapor_explosion) The sequence of events in your video is something like this: 1. a tank containing pressurized liquid propane ruptures. 2. the liquid, no longer under pressure, rapidly vaporizes and expands. 3. the violently-expanding cloud of gaseous propane and atomized liquid propane (the white cloud in the video just before the fire happens) mixes with the surrounding air. 4. the cloud reaches an ignition source, and a flame front propagates across the cloud. A BLEVE like this is quite rare. Propane tanks contain safety valves that will vent propane vapor if the pressure exceeds a predetermined limit. This presents the risk of a fire from the expelled vapor, but reduces the risk of a violent tank rupture and subsequent massive explosion. You can still get the tank to rupture, but it typically takes a huge fire to get the tank so hot that the safety vent can’t release propane vapor fast enough to keep the pressure down below the rupture limit. The alternative is a structural flaw in the tank that allows it to spontaneously rupture. > [@Esprise me](#): > > Also the owner of the boat was interviewed and stated the kitchen was all electric, so not a gas leak. Could be an electrical fire or exploded battery; divers use a lot of rechargeable lithium ion batteries and typically leave them charging overnight, often on a table in the galley, where the fire appears to have started. The batteries divers might use would be pretty small; even [diver propulsion units](https://www.divegearexpress.com/submerge-minnus-dpv?gclid=Cj0KCQjw5MLrBRClARIsAPG0WGxnZICADXRajdN6Y_GSAqmMndzqI1Sttgej6BkfOwzphljAaKwxZxcaAi3jEALw_wcB) only have batteries the size of motorcycle batteries (~20 A-h). A charging problem might start a fire and spray some sparks, but it wouldn’t instantly incapacitate everyone in the sleeper cabin. According to [this article,](https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/2019/09/03/california-dive-boat-tragedy/2202452001/) “Authorities said Tuesday there was no indication of an explosion.” The only alternative to an explosion is a vigorous fire that spreads over a short-but-finite amount of time. But I’m puzzled as to how a fire could have spread so rapidly as to block both exits before _any_ of the passengers could get out. 30+ people down there, and not one of them was a light sleeper or insomniac who could notice the growing fire before it blocked both exits? ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/93 "2019-09-06T14:15:21Z")
> [@Esprise\_Me](#): > > The distress call went out at 3:15 a.m., so that timeline doesn’t work. Also the owner of the boat was interviewed and stated the kitchen was all electric, so not a gas leak… That’s interesting… because the [specs for the galley list](https://www.truthaquatics.com/conception/) an “Onboard built-in Bar-B-Que”. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/94 "2019-09-06T15:38:09Z")
A college friend on FB just posted a picture of one of the victims who he worked with in Antarctica. It’s an amazing small and fragile world. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/95 "2019-09-06T15:38:28Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > But I’m puzzled as to how a fire could have spread so rapidly as to block both exits before _any_ of the passengers could get out. 30+ people down there, and not one of them was a light sleeper or insomniac who could notice the growing fire before it blocked both exits? A couple questions to consider would be: 1. How well-lit was the berthing compartment at night? 2. How aware were the occupants of an emergency exit? Finding your way anywhere in the dark is difficult. Finding your way in the dark to an exit you don’t even know is there, possibly with a bunch of people trying to go the other way down a narrow passage, and maybe a bunch of backpacks, blankets, and pillows cluttering up the deck is something else. I hope everyone died in their sleep. I fear they may have died in circumstances I cannot, or at least should not, seek to describe. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2019, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/96 "2019-09-06T16:09:51Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > 1. How well-lit was the berthing compartment at night? > > 2. How aware were the occupants of an emergency exit? Fair points. Presumably one of the responsibilities of the crew when taking on a new set of passengers it to inform them of the location of things like fire extinguishers and emergency egress points. No doubt the coast guard and/or NTSB will be asking whether this was done. The news last night had an interview with a Coast Guard official who visited the stricken vessel’s sister ship, which had the same/similar berthing layout including the emergency exit from the berthing deck. They showed the emergency exit on this boat, and it was a small hatch that required significant contortions to access and pass through. The Coast Guard Official expressed doubts about the utility of such an exit. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/97 "2019-09-06T18:52:38Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > That’s interesting… because the [specs for the galley list](https://www.truthaquatics.com/conception/) an “Onboard built-in Bar-B-Que”. Could it be an electric BBQ? > [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Fair points. Presumably one of the responsibilities of the crew when taking on a new set of passengers it to inform them of the location of things like fire extinguishers and emergency egress points. No doubt the coast guard and/or NTSB will be asking whether this was done. > > The news last night had an interview with a Coast Guard official who visited the stricken vessel’s sister ship, which had the same/similar berthing layout including the emergency exit from the berthing deck. They showed the emergency exit on this boat, and it was a small hatch that required significant contortions to access and pass through. The Coast Guard Official expressed doubts about the utility of such an exit. Friends of mine who have been on that boat said that it was part of the safety briefing. Somewhere I saw a picture of the hatch and it would be next to useless in getting a lot of people out quickly in a fire situation. I was probably more designed for a sinking boat. The boat got yearly Coast Guard checks and passed all of them. I can’t sat whether some of the things that passed were because they were grandfathered in. Once the cause is determined, we may well see some changes. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2019, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/98 "2019-09-06T22:27:45Z")
they said on the news that it’s a requirement that a crew member be on watch at all times. Probably more concerned about sinking or getting hit by other boats. It wouldn’t surprise me if emergency systems are revisited. It might be something as simple as locating more fire suppression switches around the boat and turning off flammable gas tanks at the source when not in use and venting the bulkheads continuously. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2019, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/99 "2019-09-06T22:37:57Z")
I just read an article from USA Today that the victims are believed to have died due to smoke inhalation. So the limited points of egress wasn’t the reason for their deaths. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2019, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592/100 "2019-09-06T22:48:46Z")
There’s a lot of talk about overheating lithium batteries as being potentially the point of origin for the fire. Given the extra layers of scrutiny those already get for air travel, if they played a part in this tragedy, I wonder what the reaction would be. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scuba-charter-disaster-in-california-over-30-feared-dead-sept-2019/839592.md?page=6)