# Scum and villainy: Republicans already throwing Palin under the bus. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 6, 2008, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-and-villainy-republicans-already-throwing-palin-under-the-bus/471420 "2008-11-06T05:44:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-and-villainy-republicans-already-throwing-palin-under-the-bus/471420/261 "2008-11-10T21:01:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, we have been\* told \*they are Repub sources. We know nothing. > > How could anyone verify this dude was not told that by secret sources? Go to every possible source and have then swear “It wasn’t me”? > > This dude is getting lots of press over these little stories, and it’s impossible to prove he has no source. > > It also possible that the source is making this up, or it’s so wildly out of context to be worthless. Palin is known to joke around, maybe she was clearly joking, or it was a miss-speak. We know nothing. We know plenty. That you’re in denial for one thing. Do you really expect the sources to allow their names to be used? That doesn’t happen for less sensitive things. If it is press bias, how come both the right wing and the “liberal” media are reporting the same story? The Newsweek article gives plenty of examples of infighting in the McCain camp - is it so hard to believe that some of these people wouldn’t go after Palin? I don’t recall her denying the stories, just saying that the reports are mean. Maybe they are false - though the prank call also makes me believe them - but they aren’t being made up by reporters. Why would they risk their credibility after the election? ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-and-villainy-republicans-already-throwing-palin-under-the-bus/471420/262 "2008-11-10T21:10:20Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, we have been\* told \*they are Repub sources. We know nothing. We know what’s usually the most pro-Republican news source on TV is reporting the attacks as gospel. Bill O’Reilly put up a token defense of Palin [when he interviewed Carl Cameron (VIDEO)](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFJ-bJTIx-0) but he did not yell and he did not even talk over the guy when the accusations were made. That’s downright meek for Bill. In fact, it would be a downright meek interview for just about anyone: He basically let Cameron unload without much interference. Fox should know what its demographics are by now and it should know that O’Reilly, of all people, should be its point man in tearing the Palin accusations to shreds. He didn’t even try. From widespread commentary in multiple conservative fora, Fox is going to reap some bitter seasons for not sticking up for Palin. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-and-villainy-republicans-already-throwing-palin-under-the-bus/471420/263 "2008-11-10T21:18:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Were he to start to gain traction nationally, would you be in favor of outing him, should you somehow come across (ahem) proof positive? On what factors would that depend? I agree with Dan Savage that there is only one acceptable justification for outing someone: if that person is actively fighting to take away our rights, to make life harder for the community, or just to the detriment of the community in general. So if Charlie Crist has a history of anti-LGBT legislation, riling up hate against the community, etc., then I wouldn’t think twice about outing him. Well, apparently he is. > **[The Daily Home](https://www.annistonstar.com/the_daily_home/)** > [@Annison Star](#): > > Gov. Charlie Crist said Tuesday that he is not reconsidering the **[same-sex couple]** adoption ban. “No second thoughts,” he said. Bolded part is mine. Is he anywhere near as bad as most of the other outed Republicans? No. But he’s actively working to oppress our community, so his hypocrisy (if it exists) needs to be publicized for the good of the Florida electorate. Staying closeted and keeping up appearances to win in a Southern state is fine, but actively supporting the oppression of the community is going too far. > [@Tom Scud](#): > > Well, Romney also has the problem that he’s the most transparent opportunist I’m aware of in American politics. Yes, all politicians shift with the wind and pander, but I can’t think of anyone who does it as obviously as Romney does. Really? I never saw him as being particularly more transparently opportunistic than, say, John Edwards, who was clearly lying through his teeth every time he opened his mouth in the Democratic primary, or John McCain, whose mountain of hateful lies during the general campaign and flip-floppery through the years is astounding. (However, I love the nickname “Multiple-Choice Mitt”. Can you give us some examples of his flip-floppery?) > [@JThunder](#): > > Yet here, we have people who are expressing no doubt whatsoever about these accusations against Gov. Palin, even though they come from completely unnamed and uncorroborated sources. Just about everything that comes from any campaign trail or other sensitive matter comes from completely unnamed and uncorroborated sources. That’s how journalism works. Remember, much of this comes from Newsweek, not the Huffington Post. > [@FriarTed](#): > > bona fides’ (I think I’m using that term correctly) No apostrophe. An apostrophe after an **s** at the end of a word is only appropriate when that word refers to a group which owns the next thing, like “the Senators’ pages”, “the comedians’ bongs”, “the Dopers’ healthy collective sense of skepticism”, etc. > [@JThunder](#): > > That’s what the subject line says. Even within this thread though, you have people treating these “heavy volleys” as gospel truth. I’m talking about comments like “She didn’t know what countries make up NAFTA. She didn’t know that Africa is a continent. Shockingly stupid person,” to name just a few. In her recent rebuttal, she did absolutely nothing to indicate that she knew those things or even that she’d decided to bone up on them after being called out for it. She could’ve easily said, “Come on, everyone knows NAFTA is the United States, Mexico and Canada.” or “Obviously, I know that Africa is a continent, which contains lots of politically important countries such as Ethiopia, Somalia, Morocco, Egypt, Suriname…” etc.–but she didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-and-villainy-republicans-already-throwing-palin-under-the-bus/471420/264 "2008-11-10T21:21:36Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > “Obviously, I know that Africa is a continent, which contains lots of politically important countries such as Ethiopia, Somalia, Morocco, Egypt, Suriname…” etc.–but she didn’t. A whoosh or a geographical corollary to Gaudere’s Law? Suriname is in South America. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-and-villainy-republicans-already-throwing-palin-under-the-bus/471420/265 "2008-11-10T21:36:50Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > Really? I never saw him as being particularly more transparently opportunistic than, say, John Edwards, who was clearly lying through his teeth every time he opened his mouth in the Democratic primary, or John McCain, whose mountain of hateful lies during the general campaign and flip-floppery through the years is astounding. (However, I love the nickname “Multiple-Choice Mitt”. Can you give us some examples of his flip-floppery?) Hmm, main thing that sprang to mind was his “I’m not a Reagan Republican” while running for Senate in 1994, which he tried to back far far away from during the primaries (I’m at work so I can’t search very hard, but here’s a NYT article that references it): [http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/30/us/politics/30campaign.html?fta=y](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/30/us/politics/30campaign.html?fta=y) And he conveniently became rabidly anti-abortion once he no longer had to worry about running for office in Massachusetts any more. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-and-villainy-republicans-already-throwing-palin-under-the-bus/471420/266 "2008-11-10T21:49:03Z")
McCain foreign policy advisor, Martin [Eisenstadt the source for Sarah Palin ‘Africa leak’… and proud of it](http://blog.iconflict.com/eisenstadt-the-source-for-sarah-palin-africa-leak%E2%80%A6-and-proud-of-it/) > [@Martin Eisenstadt](#): > > . . . > > So yes, to be clear, last week I was the one who leaked those things to a producer at Fox News who works with Cameron. Carl and his producers are good guys, and I don’t want them to have to worry about protecting their sources (and going through the wringer ala Judith Miller or Matt Cooper) on something like this. > > As you know, I was one of the foreign policy advisers on the McCain campaign who worked with Randy Scheunemann to help prep Sarah on her debate with Joe Biden. Did we outright give her a geography quiz when we started the prep? No, of course not. But yes, in the context of the prep, it slowly became apparent that her grasp of basic geo-political knowledge had major gaps. Could she have passed a multiple choice test about South Africa or NAFTA. Probably. But it was clear that she simply didn’t have the ease of knowledge that we come to expect from a major party political candidate. Other slights came up, too: Not knowing the difference between Hezbollah and Hamas. Or the difference between the Shiites and Suni. Or when it came to international terrorist organizations, knowing that the IRA was in Northern Ireland, and ETA in Spain. > > . . . I’d link directly to his blog, but it appears to be down at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-and-villainy-republicans-already-throwing-palin-under-the-bus/471420/267 "2008-11-10T21:57:50Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > I’d like to see us remain nice and moderate. “What do we want!?” “Moderation!” “When do we want it!?” “As soon as the majority of the parties at the bargaining table agree that it’s reasonably convenient to pursue!” Not really much of a rallying cry, there… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ogre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecb155/32.png) [@Ogre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ogre)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-and-villainy-republicans-already-throwing-palin-under-the-bus/471420/268 "2008-11-10T22:03:58Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > “What do we want!?” > > “Moderation!” > > “When do we want it!?” > > “As soon as the majority of the parties at the bargaining table agree that it’s reasonably convenient to pursue!” > > Not really much of a rallying cry, there… 😉 Well, we have a bunch of snappier ones, but they’re all stuck in committee… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-and-villainy-republicans-already-throwing-palin-under-the-bus/471420/269 "2008-11-10T22:14:33Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Do you really expect the sources to allow their names to be used? That doesn’t happen for less sensitive things. Yes, and he apparently has: [http://www.eisenstadtgroup.com/2008/11/10/eisenstadt-the-source-for-sarah-palin-africa-leak-and-proud-of-it/](http://www.eisenstadtgroup.com/2008/11/10/eisenstadt-the-source-for-sarah-palin-africa-leak-and-proud-of-it/) Martin Eisenstadt has been called “questionable” several times before this. He doesn’t even have a wiki page (yet). He also doesn’t mention the context of the comments, except they were missteps and mistakes she made in debate practice. However, he does fess up to spilling them to Cameron. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-and-villainy-republicans-already-throwing-palin-under-the-bus/471420/270 "2008-11-10T22:20:06Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Hmm, main thing that sprang to mind was his “I’m not a Reagan Republican” while running for Senate in 1994, which he tried to back far far away from during the primaries (I’m at work so I can’t search very hard, but here’s a NYT article that references it): > > [http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/30/us/politics/30campaign.html?fta=y](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/30/us/politics/30campaign.html?fta=y) > > And he conveniently became rabidly anti-abortion once he no longer had to worry about running for office in Massachusetts any more. During the primary season many news accounts stated that his blasting of Hillary’s healthcare plan was pretty hypocritical as Hillary’s closely matched that which Romney had passed in MA. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-and-villainy-republicans-already-throwing-palin-under-the-bus/471420/271 "2008-11-10T22:31:23Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > McCain foreign policy advisor, Martin [Eisenstadt the source for Sarah Palin ‘Africa leak’… and proud of it](http://blog.iconflict.com/eisenstadt-the-source-for-sarah-palin-africa-leak%E2%80%A6-and-proud-of-it/) I’d link directly to his blog, but it appears to be down at the moment. ps “Originally Posted by Martin Eisenstadt’- Martin Eisenstadt is not a member here and didn’t post anything of the sort. _You_ posted a quote of his. Hint- See those little “””" marks? That’s what they are for. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-and-villainy-republicans-already-throwing-palin-under-the-bus/471420/272 "2008-11-10T22:33:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > ps “Originally Posted by Martin Eisenstadt’- Martin Eisenstadt is not a member here and didn’t post anything of the sort. _You_ posted a quote of his. Hint- See those little “””" marks? That’s what they are for. Boy, you’re really on a “the SDMB does not follow my standards!” kick lately, aren’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-and-villainy-republicans-already-throwing-palin-under-the-bus/471420/273 "2008-11-10T22:39:59Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > A whoosh or a geographical corollary to Gaudere’s Law? Suriname is in South America. The latter. I must have been thinking of, um, that other one that sounds kind of like it. I’m not going to give the shark a second bite. > [@DrDeth](#): > > ps “Originally Posted by Martin Eisenstadt’- Martin Eisenstadt is not a member here and didn’t post anything of the sort. You posted a quote of his. Hint- See those little “””" marks? That’s what they are for. Bullshit. Using quote tags for non-members has been standard practice for years, and you know it. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-and-villainy-republicans-already-throwing-palin-under-the-bus/471420/274 "2008-11-10T22:43:13Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > ps “Originally Posted by Martin Eisenstadt’- Martin Eisenstadt is not a member here and didn’t post anything of the sort. _You_ posted a quote of his. Hint- See those little “””" marks? That’s what they are for. P.S. It was “Originally Posted by Martin Eisenstadt” **ON HIS BLOG** , and there’s not a damn thing wrong with my putting his words in the quote tag - it’s a QUOTE, you moron! What the fuck is the matter with you? Still pissed I was right about Obama over your girl, Hillary, and now you’re pissed I beat you to the punch with this revelation? Get over your damn self already! ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/59ef9b/32.png) [@Don\_t\_fight\_the\_hypothetical](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_fight_the_hypothetical)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-and-villainy-republicans-already-throwing-palin-under-the-bus/471420/275 "2008-11-10T22:54:59Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > ps “Originally Posted by Martin Eisenstadt’- Martin Eisenstadt is not a member here and didn’t post anything of the sort. _You_ posted a quote of his. Hint- See those little “””" marks? That’s what they are for. Not to pile on but that’s stupid. It’s SOP around here. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-and-villainy-republicans-already-throwing-palin-under-the-bus/471420/276 "2008-11-10T22:57:34Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > The latter. I must have been thinking of, um, that other one that sounds kind of like it. I’m not going to give the shark a second bite. > > Bullshit. Using quote tags for non-members has been standard practice for years, and you know it. Yes, and I- and several others- have complained about it. It’s not a issue of plagarism of course, but there are a couple issues- is it a member or a outside quote? In the case of “originaly posted by George W Bush” we have no doubt, but **Martin Eisenstadt** is hardly well known. And, it makes it difficult to quote the post, since as you can see the Quote doesn’t come out. Ps- Shayna- I was not a Hillary supporter. Told you that a bunch of times. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-and-villainy-republicans-already-throwing-palin-under-the-bus/471420/277 "2008-11-10T23:02:07Z")
Waah, waah, waah, waah. If you can’t figure out who the hell **Martin Eisenstadt** is from my post, **where I identified exactly who he is in my very first sentence** , then you’re a bigger moron than I gave you credit for. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-and-villainy-republicans-already-throwing-palin-under-the-bus/471420/278 "2008-11-10T23:04:14Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > Waah, waah, waah, waah. > > If you can’t figure out who the hell **Martin Eisenstadt** is from my post, **where I identified exactly who he is in my very first sentence** , then you’re a bigger moron than I gave you credit for. And you not only identified him, you actually linked to his blog. Maybe **DrDeth** wanted semaphore? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-and-villainy-republicans-already-throwing-palin-under-the-bus/471420/279 "2008-11-10T23:10:09Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > And you not only identified him, you actually linked to his blog. Maybe **DrDeth** wanted semaphore? Well, a blog, even if not his personal blog [del](which is still down)[/del] (which seems to be working now). The even greater irony being, in trying to scoop this story, **DrDeth** himself doesn’t even identify who the bloody fuck Martin Eisenstadt is in _his_ post. Damn good thing I’d already identified him, or it might’ve _seriously_ confused too many Dopers to name! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-and-villainy-republicans-already-throwing-palin-under-the-bus/471420/280 "2008-11-10T23:11:07Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > In her recent rebuttal, she did absolutely nothing to indicate that she knew those things or even that she’d decided to bone up on them after being called out for it. She could’ve easily said, “Come on, everyone knows NAFTA is the United States, Mexico and Canada.” or “Obviously, I know that Africa is a continent, which contains lots of politically important countries such as Ethiopia, Somalia, Morocco, Egypt, Suriname…” etc.–but she didn’t. I don’t know how useful that would have been. If she had reeled off the names of a half-dozen African countries, she’d habe been accused of just what you suggest: cramming for a test the night before, as it were. I have trouble believing the bald-faced “Is Africa a country or a continent?” suggestion. But the Couric interview revealed gaps in her knowledge that dismayed me plenty. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-and-villainy-republicans-already-throwing-palin-under-the-bus/471420.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-and-villainy-republicans-already-throwing-palin-under-the-bus/471420.md?page=15)