# Scum mafia: On Cecil pond \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 24, 2010, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202 "2010-01-24T05:10:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/321 "2010-01-29T21:24:58Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > I object to such a policy. In fact, I absolutely refuse to follow such a policy. I also categorically refuse to give any sort of pass to a player who uses such a policy as justification for a vote. I am opposed to creating _any_ rote mechanism. Every player should have to explain every action, every time. Are you voting Spawn with one of your votes? Fine. But you need to _defend_ that choice, each time; you don’t get to have the fallback of “well, we decided to be unanimous, so here’s my contribution.” You’re responsible for your votes, whether they be for a PC or a Spawn. Eventually, we will look at your record and the choices you made and see how they stack up. Every vote I make in this game will be a reflection of my own current opinion on the gamestate, and I expect every player to have to live up to that same standard… it’s where and how we will find the Scum, if we find them. You are welcome to disagree on the point of unanimity. But spawn are a very different game mechanism than we’ve seen before. Spawn is 100% known to be anti-town. The scum win condition is nScum+nSpawn \> nTown. It’s all fine and well to get all flashy and say that voting for spawn needs some reason better than “we decided to be unanimous,” but that is a red herring. Anyone at anytime can justify voting for spawn because spawn are 100% known to be bad. No one needs unanimity as a cover for voting for spawn. To say otherwise is ridiculous. Has anyone voting for spawn really had to justify it at all? Their fucking spawn! We have to kill them. My point is the inequity that arises from some players using their vote to kill spawn and others not. This bothers me. Maybe it doesn’t bother you (all of you not specifically storyteller), but I’ve stated why it bothers me, which I feel justifies my position. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/322 "2010-01-29T21:56:14Z")
“They are” even. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/323 "2010-01-29T22:51:16Z")
I’m off to see my newly born nephew tomorrow, I’ll be back Sunday. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/324 "2010-01-29T23:30:43Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Well, he made it because he was confirmed which I think you were alluding to. > > I do think you raise a good point, which is that **peeker** does make it far. What I was saying earlier, I’ll reiterate: **peeker** , you can’t pull these bullshit stunts and then act all put upon as though voting for you is the most bizarre, ludicrous thing in the world. Because you’re **peeker** and that’s how you act. > > You’re not confirmed as anything in this game, so either act normal or don’t be surprised when we start to suspect you. If you do get lysed and it turns out you were a Townie, you have only yourself to blame. had a long day so am just kind of skimming to kind of get a feel. this is bullshit. if i get strung up it’s not because of anything i do it’s because other folks vote for my stringing. sheesh, no self immoloation. and i do believe that watching folks take an “easy” out vote is telling late term. as i have said all along and will again, i play for a win not for survival. let’s try and see who fits their arguments/discussions based on incentive and who really structures some reasoning. someone has to be cannon fodder for town. seriously, look at **story** ’s game. those suckers wouldn’t have posted jerk unless a town went and poked the ant mound. did they reach the conclusion that i would have - nope. but at least the clues were there. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2010, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/325 "2010-01-29T23:34:35Z")
We wouldn’t vote for you if you didn’t post bizarre stuff, dude. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/326 "2010-01-30T00:20:03Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > We wouldn’t vote for you if you didn’t post bizarre stuff, dude. Actually, that stuff flies as long as you’ve never met the dude before. I’ve been guilty of the same sin (voting for bizarro **peeker** even though I’ve seen him act like that before) but by now I accept him at face worth: he is what he is. Which makes it damn hard to read him, by the way. Nonetheless: you have played against him, both more times and longer than I ever have. So, for trying to indict **peeker** on a flimsy reason: **vote Freudian Slit** ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/327 "2010-01-30T00:46:59Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > vote peekercpa Nice totally unsupported vote on a strong player there, cupcake. > [@Mahaloth](#): > > And, for now: > > vote peeker > > For his totally baseless vote. Flinging votes around for no reason isn’t OK, even if it is peeker. > [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Okay then. For this and for his random voting and not really defending his actions except for accusing those who vote for him of being anti town for no real reason, vote peeker > [@fluiddruid](#): > > In the interest of getting a vote on the record, since the game clock seems to be flying by, I’m going to > > vote peeker > > I get his frustration, but not his anger. At the risk of being labeled a bandwagoner, I confess this vote is largely for selfish reasons – I don’t want to play in a game with the tone that **peeker** has been using. Scum or not, I don’t get a good feeling. What is going on here gang? Worst case scenario, **Peeker** is Pond, and he is well on his way to getting lynched. Best case scenario, he is Scum and we have 4 Pondies in on the vote. \*\*Are any of these votes any better than Peeker’s? \*\* I am looking at a total of five people (I’m counting Peeker), and I am looking at a pool of 21 unconfirmed players. I’m betting one of them is scum. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/328 "2010-01-30T00:49:42Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > We wouldn’t vote for you if you didn’t post bizarre stuff, dude. so posting bizarre stuff as a town means that you support lynching a town? now that’s kind of an interesting pov. nudge nudge. we are supposed to lynch scum. unless you are scum in which case it makes perfect sense. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/329 "2010-01-30T00:52:29Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > so posting bizarre stuff as a town means that you support lynching a town? > > now that’s kind of an interesting pov. > > nudge nudge. we are supposed to lynch scum. unless you are scum in which case it makes perfect sense. No. It means that we can’t say, “Oh, he’s just acting like that, he’s **peeker** ” because that way he’s going to get away with all kinds of crap. He’s not always going to be town, you know. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/330 "2010-01-30T00:54:17Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > What is going on here gang? > > Worst case scenario, **Peeker** is Pond, and he is well on his way to getting lynched. > > Best case scenario, he is Scum and we have 4 Pondies in on the vote. > > \*\*Are any of these votes any better than Peeker’s? \*\* > > I am looking at a total of five people (I’m counting Peeker), and I am looking at a pool of 21 unconfirmed players. I’m betting one of them is scum. I have to agree and it will be an interesting data point to keep in mind as the game progresses. Your best case scenario seems pretty unlikely to me too, but that doesn’t narrow things down too much. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/331 "2010-01-30T00:58:49Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > No. It means that we can’t say, “Oh, he’s just acting like that, he’s **peeker** ” because that way he’s going to get away with all kinds of crap. He’s not always going to be town, you know. ok. well then fucking say it. i play the same way and you keep lynching my townie ass. so just say. odds are that he has to be scum one of these days. shit. that reasoning is worse than mine. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/332 "2010-01-30T01:04:03Z")
c’mon baby three blacks in a row on the wheel. red is due, bet the house. whoo boy. don’t ever go to vegas, please. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/333 "2010-01-30T01:09:45Z")
Hypothetically, say you are scum. And you act like this. What are we supposed to do, give you a pass because this is just how you play? What if someone decides to just lurk? Is it okay because that’s just their style? Or if they never post reasons for why they’re voting for someone but that’s just their strategy? I think it’s bull. You’re free to do what you want–I’m just calling you on it. I’m not saying you have to die, just that right now I see you as scummiest. And as was pointed out earlier, a game without you in it would have a more pleasant tone, so at least we’d have that going for us. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/334 "2010-01-30T01:32:16Z")
Ok. I’m going to take a step further now. I still believe that Peeker + 4 will net at least one scum. > [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Snipped > > My suspicions are tending toward **fluiddruid**. First, there’s the “Scum wouldn’t do that” argument. I think pretty much everyone agrees that there’s nothing that Scum wouldn’t do anymore. I’m not saying this is the case, but an experienced player like **storyteller** could be playing the Devil’s Advocate argument as Scum, precisely because too many people would think “Hey, **story** is a good player and wouldn’t put his ass on the line like this as Scum.” So saying that Scum aren’t going to be advocating a double-player-lynch because Scum don’t advocate for things that are obviously in their best interest is probably wrong. See Colorless, where a Scum Freudian tried (for a moment) to advocate a leash-the-Vig strategy, even after I (also Scum, natch) said that Scum would love to see it happen. And then there’s the piling on of **peeker** for completely non-game reasons. It’s an easy way for Scum to hide. > > vote fluiddruid I tend to agree here. A vote is coming, but I want to say a few things first. Let’s review Fluid’s vote : > [@fluiddruid](#): > > Snipped > > In the interest of getting a vote on the record, since the game clock seems to be flying by, I’m going to > > vote peeker > > I get his frustration, but not his anger. At the risk of being labeled a bandwagoner, I confess this vote is largely for selfish reasons – I don’t want to play in a game with the tone that **peeker** has been using. Scum or not, I don’t get a good feeling. @ **Fluid** First off, I’m not exactly sure what you mean by “vote on the record”, I assume it means that you are subscribing to Vote Early, Vote Often. If this is the case, then take my vote on you in the same vein. Second off, I’m not exactly sure what you mean by “since the game clock seems to be flying by”. [We have until the fourth.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12050820&postcount=174) I want to say that this is a cooked up idea, with a pinch of skimming. Third, I question why you feel you have to point out that you are on the bandwagon. Guilty conscience? – Ok, you admit it is a selfish reason. Hopefully you will revisit the vote later in the week. I refer you to the last line of my first paragraph if this is the case. Fourth, and I have to go here, because if I don’t, and especially since I am placing a vote for you, it will come up in spades later; I am against your policy vote here. I can not begin to fully understand what Peeker does. Yes, I am often lumped in with him when it comes to the WTF style of Mafia. That doesn’t mean I understand him all of the time. I make Big Macs, Peeker serves up Whoppers. I am just saying, that I have been here, I have been where Peeker is now, and I can only guess that he has been there before, perhaps even before I started playing. The frustration is on a level that, I’m not sure I comprehend fully. I know I can not express it fully. When I do express things, it rarely comes out how I intend. I remind myself of one game, where players asked for my forced substitution. Where would I be now, if that had panned out? [Yet, this game seems to be a turning point for me, if I can touch there for a second.] I’m not asking to give Peeker a free pass. I am not asking to give me a free pass. I am just saying that Peeker does not own 100% of what makes Peeker ““Peeker””. I do not Own 100% of what makes Meeko, Meeko. What you guys do with our comments must enter the equation on how you perceive us. This belief is only furthered by these rare moments when we can connect. And for other SDMB posters that do not play Mafia. (BigT for starters.) In so many words, Yes, a fraction of my Vote is policy vote on your policy vote. The game is hard enough for Peeker. The game is hard enough for me. I am not sure if ‘grudge’ is the right word. Easy Targets? Perhaps. At least the farmer waited for his Goose to lay a golden egg first, then he killed him. Again, on the pure math, we have 4 people on Peeker as I write this. If Peeker is scum, well I just hope I am around to vote him later in the game. Bur for now, I feel the scum is among his voters, and is not the Votee. I have given my sound reasons, and yes, I will not deny that I have personal equity here too. Again Fluid, I am just “getting a vote on the record”. \*\* Vote Fluiddruid.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/335 "2010-01-30T01:34:23Z")
Can’t we make it through the first 48 hours without personal scuffles? ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/336 "2010-01-30T01:50:00Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Hypothetically, say you are scum. And you act like this. What are we supposed to do, give you a pass because this is just how you play? > > What if someone decides to just lurk? Is it okay because that’s just their style? Or if they never post reasons for why they’re voting for someone but that’s just their strategy? I think it’s bull. You’re free to do what you want–I’m just calling you on it. I’m not saying you have to die, just that right now I see you as scummiest. And as was pointed out earlier, a game without you in it would have a more pleasant tone, so at least we’d have that going for us. ok, well then i am fucked either way, right? i post and i offend. i do’t and i lurk. what’s a poor town put in a no win situation to do? screw it, sub me. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/337 "2010-01-30T01:50:21Z")
I just want to point out that I don’t mind having peeker in the game. It’s not personal for me. I explained my vote for him, which stands for now. It’s Day One(early Day One, too). My vote will change if someone behaves more anti-town than his initial vote. I think voting for the most anti-town player makes sense and so far, it’s him. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/338 "2010-01-30T02:00:09Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > ok, well then i am fucked either way, right? > > i post and i offend. i do’t and i lurk. what’s a poor town put in a no win situation to do? > > screw it, sub me. You post like a normal person for once? ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/339 "2010-01-30T02:02:37Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > … My point is the inequity that arises from some players using their vote to kill spawn and others not. This bothers me. Maybe it doesn’t bother you (all of you not specifically storyteller), but I’ve stated why it bothers me, which I feel justifies my position. It doesn’t bother me at all. Everyone gets two votes. That seems equitable. How they use those votes is up to them. If we, as pond townies, don’t like how someone voted or their justification for their vote, we are free to vote to lyse them. And sache, you are free to vote for anyone who doesn’t vote spawn, and free to tell them ahead of time of your plan. It all seems perfectly fair to me. I plan on voting the two scummiest every summer. The spawn looked 100% scummy to me in the first seven minutes and so I voted for spawn. It’s a long Summer and no one else has particularly stood out yet, and so I have not placed my second vote yet. It’s hard to imagine that I would ever have enough insight into 2 other players to ever think that they were 100% scummy like the spawn, but I won’t rule anything out. Clearly the scum are more dangerous than the spawn, so I can certainly see the need to get rid of them as soon as possible, but the problem, as always, is finding them. We’ve had a lot of discussion about whether to vote spawn or not. I’m not sure that reading all of that discussion got me any closer to deciding who looked scummy. It mostly seemed like arguments, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2010, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/340 "2010-01-30T10:14:06Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > In so many words, Yes, a fraction of my Vote is policy vote on your policy vote. The game is hard enough for Peeker. The game is hard enough for me. I am not sure if ‘grudge’ is the right word. Easy Targets? Perhaps. > > At least the farmer waited for his Goose to lay a golden egg first, then he killed him. > \ > > I have given my sound reasons, and yes, I will not deny that I have personal equity here too. Again Fluid, I am just “getting a vote on the record”. Just for clarity, this is how I approach a mafia game: in essence it is a **role** playing game to have fun. This means this game I’m some sort of microscopic organism trying to survive. So are all of you. I might have some instincts about ‘when that plankton was in an _Evil Dead_ movie, he didn’t vote that way’. Several people have said I’m good, I think my win-lose record shows otherwise. But I’m a ‘hard target’ in that I typically don’t post in a style that allows me to get the type votes you get. You play differently, it’s much more emotional, more personal I guess - but that’s just different strokes for different folks. If I had wanted to make your **fluiddruid** case, I would just have sticked to the ‘policy vote’ argument, perhaps a mention of the ‘third vote = scum’ tell. I’m more of the ‘don’t hold grudges, play the game (the role)’. If it doesn’t work that way for you, it’s OK. To me the ‘personal equity’ sticks out and that is what I think triggers other people as well, so try to be aware of that. You just call it some hunch or insight you had instead of dwelling on whether ‘it’s a grudge or not or killing golden gooses’. Please just get your vote on record _without_ the quotes. As for **peeker** , [this reaction](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12051772#post12051772) was out of line with regards to the cursing. Feel free to rail against Zeriel’s vote, but preview, count to ten, etc please. It’s not like this situation is completely new, so don’t throw if you can’t catch (a vote). IMO, **fluiddruid** should have put on a moderator hat there and not make it part of the game by voting for it. Now let’s talk about finding scum, mkay? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202.md?page=18)