# Scum mafia: On Cecil pond \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 24, 2010, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202 "2010-01-24T05:10:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/721 "2010-02-06T20:59:00Z")
**Chronos, what is a communal organism?** **Vote spawn** ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/722 "2010-02-06T21:35:26Z")
Communal organism?!? I agree that it sounds like it might be a mason. Something to keep in mind for the future. I know that examining scum motivation is not always productive, and can sometimes even be counter-productive, but I always do it anyway. Asking myself about the scum motivation for getting rid of Ed forced me to review Ed’s posts. Generally he seemed like a rational and mediating voice in the single/double lyse argument. I can’t see much motivation there. He was a primary advocate for the peeker case, but again I don’t see much scum motivation there. The only thing that stood out to me was his suspicion of Cookies, primarily [post 596](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12075097&postcount=596). Of course, it’s just as likely the scum motivation was to get rid of a strong player. **vote spawn** I’ll be voting spawn every summer, but will leave my options open to changing to two nonspawn in the unlikely event that I see two convincing cases. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/723 "2010-02-06T22:19:33Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Thanks Drain I must have just gotten confused I was thinking 1 central instead of 1 mountain. > > Sorry to lose you Ed. I guess Rysto is probably right but I don’t think that hurts us too badly as long as we’ve still got a couple of masons left, who should not come forward unless they are on the lyse block. > > I was thinking that I don’t know what to make of the Peeker and Scuba wagons from yesterDay with Peeker coming up town I think there’s a good possibility of both being scum motivated. I didn’t see any overt scum actions pushing either wagon but with nothing else standing out I think that’s a good starting place. > > I don’t have my spreadsheet infront of me but with losing two pondies there is a greater chance of the spawn voting for scum but there is no increase of them screwing up the scum’s night. So their actions are probably not more then 25-30% town. That being said as of right now I don’t see that we’re likely to have two people with more then 75-80% suspicion of being scum so > > **Vote Spawn** How/why are you inferring that peeker flipping pond indicates that Scuba’s alignment is also pond? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/724 "2010-02-06T22:27:10Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > “Communal Organism” could mean lots of things in my estimation. I’m a bit worried about the speculation about it though. I don’t think that significant good can come from public guessing, and speculation seems like a rapid way to give additional information to scum. This post does not jive. In a semi-closed game where most of the Pond are vanilla plankton, a speculating and communicative vanilla pool is much more powerful than a vanilla pool that just sits around not speculating, hoping for little crumbs of insight from the mod. You can bet that the Scum are speculating in their thread. Why exile the Pondies to each be islands of one in trying to deduce the game instead of pooling their collective deduction power? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/725 "2010-02-06T22:40:50Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > Communal organism?!? I agree that it sounds like it might be a mason. Something to keep in mind for the future. > > I know that examining scum motivation is not always productive, and can sometimes even be counter-productive, but I always do it anyway. Asking myself about the scum motivation for getting rid of Ed forced me to review Ed’s posts. Generally he seemed like a rational and mediating voice in the single/double lyse argument. I can’t see much motivation there. He was a primary advocate for the peeker case, but again I don’t see much scum motivation there. The only thing that stood out to me was his suspicion of Cookies, primarily [post 596](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12075097&postcount=596). Of course, it’s just as likely the scum motivation was to get rid of a strong player. > > **vote spawn** > I’ll be voting spawn every summer, but will leave my options open to changing to two nonspawn in the unlikely event that I see two convincing cases. Metagaming perhaps, but when Ed has suspicions I don’t think he minces words about them. He did accuse me of using a strawman argument while making a strawman argument that implicated him, and maybe I was making too much of those who seemed to be making too much of the split-lyse strategy, but I consider that whole exchange as healthy discussion as opposed to “suspicion”. The only player for whom I included his strawman statement as _part_ of the justification for suspicion and a vote was Scuba, who I’m still very much wanting to hear more from toDay. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/726 "2010-02-06T22:57:47Z")
Vote total: Spawn 5 [del]1: special ed[/del] 2: ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies 3: Drain Bead 4: Oredigger77 – Spawn (717) 5: storyteller0910 6: Meeko – Spawn (715) 7: Mahaloth – Spawn (721) 8: Freudian Slit – Spawn (718) 9: USCDiver 10: Alka Seltzer [del]11: peekercpa[/del] 12: Natlaw 13: Zeriel 14: DiggitCamara 15: amrussell 16: KellyCriterion 17: Scuba\_Ben 18: sachertorte 19: fluiddruid 20: TexCat – Spawn (722) 21: Rysto > [@](#): > > Chronos, what is a communal organism? Assuming there are any communal organisms still alive, you can ask them. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/727 "2010-02-06T23:04:26Z")
And **Vote Spawn** too. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/728 "2010-02-06T23:05:28Z")
NETA: Sorry for not bleaching votes in my quotes. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/729 "2010-02-06T23:18:30Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Assuming there are any communal organisms still alive, you can ask them. Hm. That’s pretty unfortunate for us. Without this information, it makes it way more different to evaluate future claims. For all we know, ed was a doctor, which would be critical information to have down the road if we had a player claim doc. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/730 "2010-02-06T23:30:47Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > How/why are you inferring that peeker flipping pond indicates that Scuba’s alignment is also pond? I believe you misunderstood me. I think the wagons on Peeker and Scuba were scum motivated this is no reflection on the alignment of Scuba. Scum have been known to bus scum so I don’t think anything other then the people on the wagon might have been scum and I think those two are a good place to look. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/731 "2010-02-06T23:31:05Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Hm. That’s pretty unfortunate for us. Without this information, it makes it way more different to evaluate future claims. For all we know, ed was a doctor, which would be critical information to have down the road if we had a player claim doc. But the flip side of a closed or semi-closed set up is that the Scum starts the game not knowing what power roles the Pond has either, or what behaviors might betray those roles. I say this just as an explanation of implications of this particular set up, and acknowledge that sachertorte’s suggestion that we keep speculation at a minimum is to conserve that lack of information and keep the scum in the dark as much as possible, but that doesn’t change my opinion that keeping the vanilla players in the dark in order to try and keep the scum in the dark sacrifices too much deductive potential for the Pond as a whole. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/732 "2010-02-06T23:33:35Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I believe you misunderstood me. I think the wagons on Peeker and Scuba were scum motivated this is no reflection on the alignment of Scuba. Scum have been known to bus scum so I don’t think anything other then the people on the wagon might have been scum and I think those two are a good place to look. Okay then, on what basis do you think the Scuba train was scum-motivated? Can you define how many scum on a train it takes to be ‘scum-motivated’? ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/733 "2010-02-06T23:34:13Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > But the flip side of a closed or semi-closed set up is that the Scum starts the game not knowing what power roles the Pond has either, or what behaviors might betray those roles. Generally in a closed game we at least get some indication of what kind of powers the dead had. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/734 "2010-02-06T23:35:39Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Generally in a closed game we at least get some indication of what kind of powers the dead had. That hasn’t been my experience and would be balanced toward Scum if that were the case. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2010, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/735 "2010-02-06T23:53:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Assuming there are any communal organisms still alive, you can ask them. I see. Well, I guess that’s all there is to that for now. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/736 "2010-02-07T00:14:18Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Okay then, on what basis do you think the Scuba train was scum-motivated? Can you define how many scum on a train it takes to be ‘scum-motivated’? How many if hard to say but since the max number on Scuba was 5 I would say the 4 is the max number is scum. As far as the minimum I guess the number could be zero if they were feeding a case to us and stayed off of the wagon. The reason I think that peeker’s case was scum motivated was that it didn’t exist as was pointed out several times he may have been over reacting and acting without good reason but it never felt like a good case. Scuba’s case was basically him doing a little snuggling then coming back to say he was busy but would eventually return. It seemed to spring out of no where possibly to get us to not lynch spawn. Either way given the number of people on both wagons I think it’s a safe bet to think some of them were scum just on a numbers basis. As was pointed out yesterDay 1 out of 5 of us is scum and any random group of 5 had an 80% chance of being scum so between the ~10 players on both of them I would assume there to be an 80% chance of two scum. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/737 "2010-02-07T00:18:16Z")
The color and the name makes me think Mason, but I guess the only way we’ll find out for certain is to watch the game unfold. **sachertorte** ’s post caused me to raise an eyebrow. I’m glad **Cookies** pointed it out as well. I think speculating as to what **ed** was is important. Remember, as Town we lack information. We should try our best to get more of it. If that involves speculating as to what Ed’s exact role is, so be it. The more we post, the more data points we get. **vote spawn** ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/738 "2010-02-07T00:33:08Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > How many if hard to say but since the max number on Scuba was 5 I would say the 4 is the max number is scum. As far as the minimum I guess the number could be zero if they were feeding a case to us and stayed off of the wagon. > > The reason I think that peeker’s case was scum motivated was that it didn’t exist as was pointed out several times he may have been over reacting and acting without good reason but it never felt like a good case. Scuba’s case was basically him doing a little snuggling then coming back to say he was busy but would eventually return. It seemed to spring out of no where possibly to get us to not lynch spawn. > > Either way given the number of people on both wagons I think it’s a safe bet to think some of them were scum just on a numbers basis. As was pointed out yesterDay 1 out of 5 of us is scum and any random group of 5 had an 80% chance of being scum so between the ~10 players on both of them I would assume there to be an 80% chance of two scum. I have no issue with a WAG that the peeker lynch could have been driven/manipulated/encouraged/sit-back-and-let-it-happen by Scum, but I do not share your conclusions on the Scuba wagon and think they are dangerous conclusions to make at this point. I also don’t follow what, beside your gut, would tell you that 3 people voting for both Spawn and Scuba (while not voting for a Pondie peeker) is actually a signs of a scum plan to get us not to lynch Spawn. I know that wasn’t my motivation, so we’re down to 2 others, as I didn’t count your Spawn/Scuba vote because I’m assuming you are not confessing your part in the alleged scum-motivated plan. You may be able to make that claim about Natlaw, but I still don’t find it compelling. Scuba voters: 2: ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies – Spawn (193), Scuba\_Ben (549) 4: Oredigger77 – Spawn (194), Scuba\_Ben (482) 6: Meeko – Spawn (182), fluiddruid (334-386), peeker (386-507), Scuba\_Ben (507) 12: Natlaw – Scuba\_Ben (460) 16: KellyCriterion – Spawn (374), Scuba\_Ben (529) In short, I just don’t think you’re parsing the information available in a logical fashion with respect to the Scuba wagon. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/739 "2010-02-07T00:34:34Z")
There should be strike-through font on Meeko’s fluid and peeker votes. Sorry about that. ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/740 "2010-02-07T00:42:35Z")
Can someone please give a quick explanation as to what a “mason” usually is? **vote Spawn** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202.md?page=38)