# Scum mafia: On Cecil pond \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 24, 2010, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202 "2010-01-24T05:10:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 38
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/741 "2010-02-07T00:54:08Z")
A (very brief) blurb on masons: [http://wiki.flyingcowofdoom.com/mafiaWiki/Mason](http://wiki.flyingcowofdoom.com/mafiaWiki/Mason) ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/742 "2010-02-07T00:55:58Z")
And of course now that I’ve posted it I realize that the wiki should be edited to say: "A Mason is, almost all of the time, one of a group of Town players who all know \*who each other are and \*that their fellow Masons are Town-aligned. Generally Masons can talk privately at night, although this is a secondary benefit. ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/743 "2010-02-07T01:30:25Z")
Thanks, **ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies**. If masons are town-aligned and know who the other masons are, why wouldn’t it be most valuable to town if they all claimed straight away? ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/744 "2010-02-07T01:53:48Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > Thanks, **ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies**. > > If masons are town-aligned and know who the other masons are, why wouldn’t it be most valuable to town if they all claimed straight away? Because the scum would kill them off immediately. The masons’ goal is to stay hidden(and alive) for as long as possible. It’s way more valuable to have, for example, 3 confirmed Town out of 10 than 3 confirmed Town out of 21. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/745 "2010-02-07T02:01:14Z")
That is certainly one Mason strategy, but not a very popular one. By staying incognito, Masons can leverage their perfect information (knowing who each other are and that they are all on the same side) to deduce possible motivations on any players voice suspicions about anyone in the Masonry. Also, by outing themselves they reduce the pool of unknown players which reduces the cover for other town power roles to hide in. Also-also, by outing themselves they expose themselves to be picked off at Night by the Scum since there are usually not enough protective roles provided to the Town to protect all of the Masons at the same time, and loss of confirmed Townies like that can be a deathblow to the Town under certain circumstances. There are lots of other reasons why most Masonry players don’t expose themselves right away, but it has been done in the past. I just can’t recall in which games, and I don’t know if it has ever happened without at least one of the Masons being lynched or killed first. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/746 "2010-02-07T02:09:31Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Hm. That’s pretty unfortunate for us. Without this information, it makes it way more different to evaluate future claims. For all we know, ed was a doctor, which would be critical information to have down the road if we had a player claim doc. Wouldn’t a Doc self protect night 1? I can’t wrap “Doctor” around communal organism. As other people have offered, I would have to guess that communal organism = mason. > [@Oredigger77](#): > > Snipped. > > I was thinking that I don’t know what to make of the Peeker and Scuba wagons from yesterDay with Peeker coming up town I think there’s a good possibility of both being scum motivated. I didn’t see any overt scum actions pushing either wagon but with nothing else standing out I think that’s a good starting place. > > Snipped > [@Oredigger77](#): > > I believe you misunderstood me. I think the wagons on Peeker and Scuba were scum motivated this is no reflection on the alignment of Scuba. Scum have been known to bus scum so I don’t think anything other then the people on the wagon might have been scum and I think those two are a good place to look. Well that addresses a question I had. > [@Oredigger77](#): > > How many if hard to say but since the max number on Scuba was 5 I would say the 4 is the max number is scum. As far as the minimum I guess the number could be zero if they were feeding a case to us and stayed off of the wagon. > > The reason I think that peeker’s case was scum motivated was that it didn’t exist as was pointed out several times he may have been over reacting and acting without good reason but it never felt like a good case. Scuba’s case was basically him doing a little snuggling then coming back to say he was busy but would eventually return. It seemed to spring out of no where possibly to get us to not lynch spawn. > > Either way given the number of people on both wagons I think it’s a safe bet to think some of them were scum just on a numbers basis. As was pointed out yesterDay 1 out of 5 of us is scum and any random group of 5 had an 80% chance of being scum so between the ~10 players on both of them I would assume there to be an 80% chance of two scum. But this seems to kinda undo it. \*\* Digger\*\* Do you mind clarifying : How many if hard to say but since the max number on Scuba was 5 I would say the 4 is the max number is scum. * * * When I was looking at my 5 people, I included Peeker. \*\* Digger\*\*, do you mean to include a look at Scuba in your random group of 5, or does he get a pass? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/747 "2010-02-07T02:18:05Z")
And one more question for Oredigger before I shut up for awhile because I’m posting too much: > [@Oredigger77](#): > > As far as the minimum I guess the number could be zero if they were feeding a case to us and stayed off of the wagon. Can you point to some specific examples of people who were voicing suspicions about Scuba but who didn’t vote for him? If you can’t, I continue not to follow your logic in your last few posts. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/748 "2010-02-07T02:21:52Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Wouldn’t a Doc self protect night 1? I can’t wrap “Doctor” around communal organism. As other people have offered, I would have to guess that communal organism = mason. Probably, yes. I was just offering that up as an example of how the lack of information from the mod hurts us. ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/749 "2010-02-07T05:13:29Z")
This part of the color: > [@Chronos](#): > > … as though he was not evolved to survive alone… leads me also to conclude that this is a Mason role. I’m in Colorado this week and I have internet access in my hotel, but I’m going to be on the slopes and/or drunk a good bit of the week. I’ll read up daily and post when I can. **vote Spawn** ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/750 "2010-02-07T05:53:51Z")
Thank you for the explanations on masons, **Rysto** and **ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies**. ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/751 "2010-02-07T06:08:42Z")
Alright, I need some help here. What should we be looking for to help identify scum? I know I’m a n00b but even I could see that the “evidence” that was used to cast suspicion at **peeker** made absolutely no sense. Does this mean we should now turn up the heat on everyone who voted for **peeker**? My instincts would say no, because I doubt the scum would be so inept as to all (or even mostly) vote for the same townie on Day 1. Without having to read up on all the past Mafia games I can find, what are some common tell-tale signs of scummy behaviour? What’s the precedent? I can’t see how we can glean anything out of Day 1 now - as I suspect that the scum didn’t actually have to _do_ anything. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/752 "2010-02-07T06:46:48Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > This part of the color: > > leads me also to conclude that this is a Mason role. > > I’m in Colorado this week and I have internet access in my hotel, but I’m going to be on the slopes and/or drunk a good bit of the week. I’ll read up daily and post when I can. > > **vote Spawn** Mmmm…Bota bags full of 100 proof schnapps on the slopes. I have only been skiing once many years ago, but I do fondly remember that part. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/753 "2010-02-07T07:09:37Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Either way given the number of people on both wagons I think it’s a safe bet to think some of them were scum just on a numbers basis. As was pointed out yesterDay 1 out of 5 of us is scum and any random group of 5 had an 80% chance of being scum so between the ~10 players on both of them I would assume there to be an 80% chance of two scum. There’s a danger in assuming anything about the composition of subgroups vs. the composition of the whole group, since no given sample group (like, say, voters for Scuba) are a random sample. Basic statistics. Speaking of which, Special Ed’s numbers were wrong on the cumulative percentages yesterday, but I’m too lazy to do the math (my notes are at work). Thirdly, on the subject of Masons, I would prefer to not repeat MonkGate if at all possible. And that’s all I have to say about that. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/754 "2010-02-07T07:18:30Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > Snipped > > Does this mean we should now turn up the heat on everyone who voted for **peeker**? My instincts would say no, because I doubt the scum would be so inept as to all (or even mostly) vote for the same townie on Day 1. > > Without having to read up on all the past Mafia games I can find, what are some common tell-tale signs of scummy behaviour? What’s the precedent? I can’t see how we can glean anything out of Day 1 now - as I suspect that the scum didn’t actually have to _do_ anything. 1. And what of the people who unvoted Peeker? 2. As soon as we tell scum what not to do, they will stop doing it. We don’t want that. Heh. The game I stop using my Jamie Lee Curtis quote is the one game I need it. Information comes slowly at first. Once you can nail people down one way or another is when the fun begins, > [@Zeriel](#): > > Thirdly, on the subject of Masons, I would prefer to not repeat MonkGate if at all possible. And that’s all I have to say about that. This brings up another point on information, for **Kelly**. Re: The apparent mason dynamic in the game. But, **Z** , you know it can’t be a " And that’s all I have to say about that " moment. MonkGate ? I am willing to bet that at least two players have no clue here, Z. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/755 "2010-02-07T07:22:44Z")
Do we have anyone working a WOW on Special Ed? My WOWs were at best long winded. Not to touch the fact that I am only 7 games in. Given that I have been longer winded of late, I am not going to volunteer here. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/756 "2010-02-07T07:41:33Z")
I am likely to misremember some of the details even though I was one of the gated monks, but I believe there were 3 of us monks/masons left (we may have started the game with 4) and one of the three of us (NAF?) was either lynched or nightkilled, and one of us (sache) went on vacation and was unavailable to confirm with me that he and I were the two remaining masons. Queue two fake-claming mason scum stage left, and it was a big mess. ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/757 "2010-02-07T11:51:05Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > I am likely to misremember some of the details even though I was one of the gated monks, but I believe there were 3 of us monks/masons left (we may have started the game with 4) and one of the three of us (NAF?) was either lynched or nightkilled, and one of us (sache) went on vacation **and was unavailable to confirm with me that he and I were the two remaining masons**. Queue two fake-claming mason scum stage left, and it was a big mess. I thought “masons” knew who the other masons were.. so why did you need confirmation? ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/758 "2010-02-07T12:16:02Z")
Public confirmation. Since no one else knows who the live masons are, they claim/confirm each other publicly. With two scum fake-claiming mason, it became a battle of their word against ours’ and the Town had to figure out which two players were lying. ---
**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/759 "2010-02-07T12:17:36Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > I thought “masons” knew who the other masons were.. so why did you need confirmation? The rest of the town doesn’t though so they needed confirmation she was really a mason - which another mason can do. Unless of course two scum claim mason together. For that reason, the common mason tactic is to claim if there are only two left - a single mason is just a vanilla town. It’s not unlikely there are now two left (if a communal organism is a mason), but I’m not sure I would advice to claim now (if only two left). For the reason that it is early game and claiming later is more useful as mentioned and the odds aren’t that great another gets killed soon. Up to the masons to make the call of course. On why scum chose **special ed** to kill, I can see a motivation to direct the search some have announced to go look in the **peeker** votes for scum, but it’s just a random guess. ---
**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2010, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/760 "2010-02-07T12:25:40Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > I also don’t follow what, beside your gut, would tell you that 3 people voting for both Spawn and Scuba (while not voting for a Pondie peeker) is actually a signs of a scum plan to get us not to lynch Spawn. I know that wasn’t my motivation, so we’re down to 2 others, as I didn’t count your Spawn/Scuba vote because I’m assuming you are not confessing your part in the alleged scum-motivated plan. You may be able to make that claim about Natlaw, but I still don’t find it compelling. > > Scuba voters: > > 2: ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies – Spawn (193), Scuba\_Ben (549) > 4: Oredigger77 – Spawn (194), Scuba\_Ben (482) > 6: Meeko – Spawn (182), fluiddruid (334-386), peeker (386-507), Scuba\_Ben (507) > 12: Natlaw – Scuba\_Ben (460) > 16: KellyCriterion – Spawn (374), Scuba\_Ben (529) > > In short, I just don’t think you’re parsing the information available in a logical fashion with respect to the Scuba wagon. I agree I don’t see how the **Scuba** wagon was to get a dual player lynch going. If **Oredigger** wants to argue a scum was feeding it, I would include **amrussell** in the list with his vote/unvote for Scuba\_Ben. The case had a lot of ‘me too’-ing going on (including my vote), but that had more to do with there being no real case Yesterday and a desire to provide an alter lynch to **peeker**. And since peeker was town that isn’t a necessary scum motivation (but wouldn’t be anti-scum either unless Scuba\_Ben is scum). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202.md?page=37) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202.md?page=39)