# Scum mafia: On Cecil pond \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 24, 2010, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202 "2010-01-24T05:10:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 40
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/781 "2010-02-08T03:53:52Z")
Now that there’s actually a human vote out there, Vote total: Spawn 8 KellyCriterion 1 [del]1: special ed[/del] 2: ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies – Spawn (727) 3: Drain Bead – Spawn (737) 4: Oredigger77 – Spawn (717) 5: storyteller0910 6: Meeko – Spawn (715) 7: Mahaloth – Spawn (721), KellyCriterion (778) 8: Freudian Slit – Spawn (718) 9: USCDiver – Spawn (749) 10: Alka Seltzer [del]11: peekercpa[/del] 12: Natlaw 13: Zeriel 14: DiggitCamara 15: amrussell 16: KellyCriterion – Spawn (740) 17: Scuba\_Ben 18: sachertorte 19: fluiddruid 20: TexCat – Spawn (722) 21: Rysto ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/782 "2010-02-08T07:27:57Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I think it would be extremely foolish to entirely ignore Kelly’s vote on Scuba yesterday. I have no idea whether Scuba is scum or not(I have no vibe on him either way yet), but his/her vote on Scuba was flat out pointless and was claimed so. The non-sensical rush to lynch **peeker** was pointless, and I am on the record stating that I thought the case against him was weak, and I stated it _prior to us learning that **peeker** was town_. My vote had some motive which I stated.. basically it was a “let’s even up for the voting tally to see if the extra pressure being applied causes some sort of slip”. At least I was trying _something_. In other news.. is there ever a good reason that we wouldn’t lynch a spawn every single day? I can understand if we reach an end-game where we think the scum are on the verge of outnumbering us, so we throw a “Hail Mary” double player kill in an effort to steal the win.. but other than that, why would we _not_ always lynch the spawn? ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/783 "2010-02-08T07:28:57Z")
Oh, and to clear up some other confusion, I am certifiably male. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/784 "2010-02-08T13:19:38Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > Oh, and to clear up some other confusion, I am certifiably male. :)🙂 Is that beccause you have nuts, or are nuts? :)🙂 To turn the phrase, “It’s that -ly ending…” Says the guy who takes his name from the Disney Raccoon, and not an Asian girl. [Apparently no one remembers that Disney movie.] ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/785 "2010-02-08T13:59:54Z")
**vote Rysto** Late, one-off vote on someone we now know was a Town power role, probably a Mason. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/786 "2010-02-08T14:16:16Z")
Well, the good news is that we’ve got two new bits of information. The bad news is that I’m not very sure they help us all that much. Firstly, we know \*\*peeker \*\*was town. But that doesn’t really tell us a huge amount about the motivations of people voting for him. I can see that he made it easy for scum to vote for him; the flip side is, he also made it easy for town (e.g. **special ed** ). So while there’s a plausible scum-motivation for a **peeker** -vote, by itself it’s not such outlandish behaviour as to tell us anything. In other words, I think there probably Secondly, we know \*\*ed \*\*was town. That at least tells us that everything he posted was in good faith. But most of what he posted was about double-lysing (or not), or his case against **peeker** , which doesn’t seem to tell us much. He was also the most prolific poster at the time of his death - I half-wonder if the point of killing him was just to make us waste time reading all his posts for clues? In any case, it feels like empty speculation at this point. My unfortunate suspicion is that the Day One narrative is: \*\*peeker \*\*stirs the pot, and attracts votes from town, plus some scum who see cover; \*\*Scuba \*\*attracts votes from townies who want an alternative to peeker, plus some scum who see cover; the remainder, unconvinced by either case, pursue their own one-off votes - plus some scum who see cover. I’m certainly interested in hearing more from **Scuba** , as this may throw some more light on his wagon. (Not knowing his alignment makes it more difficult to even guess at motivation, but obviously lysing him just for the info would be poor play indeed, so further interrogation is all that’s warranted.) I’m also interested in hearing from our quietest players - **TexCat** , **fluiddruid** , \*\*Diggit \*\*and **USCDiver**. We need play to generate info. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/787 "2010-02-08T14:41:20Z")
> [@Natlaw](#): > > I think the people who didn’t have a vote for either peeker or Scuba\_Ben also might be worth looking at as the didn’t commit one way or the other for the to players with a chance to be lynched. > > Freudian Slit voters: > 5: storyteller0910 – Freudian Slit (629), Spawn (629) > 14: DiggitCamara – Spawn (285), Freudian (326) > 18: sachertorte – Spawn (202), Freudian (489) When I voted for Freudian Slit, the Scuba\_Ben bandwagon had not yet come to fruition. I think I have been quite clear on my stance regarding peekercpa. I stuck with my vote for Freudian Slit because I felt she was the best lynch candidate. I supported neither the Scuba\_Ben nor peekercpa wagons. Therefore my vote was on neither. DiggitCamara voted even earlier than me, so it isn’t as though he chose Freudian to duck some mysical referendum. storyteller’s vote was later, he will have to tell you what he was thinking. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/788 "2010-02-08T14:44:50Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I think it would be extremely foolish to entirely ignore Kelly’s vote on Scuba yesterday. I have no idea whether Scuba is scum or not(I have no vibe on him either way yet), but his/her vote on Scuba was flat out pointless and was claimed so. > > I let it go last Summer, which was probably a mistake. I mean, he/she is new, but I don’t think I should have let it go. And neither should any of us. > > It’s early still, so my vote may change, but I think town should have no problem getting early votes out there. I’m town, so here is my vote, at least for now. > > [COLOR="Bl **Lyse KellyCriterion** [/COLOR] > > for flat out voting with no rationale or even attempt a reasoning. Very anti-town behavior. I could follow this reasoning if peekercpa was scum, but peekercpa is Town so I’m not following the reasoning one bit. Are you saying that scummy KellyCriterion tried to derail the peekercpa lynch? If it turned out that Scuba\_Ben is scum, would you change your opinion on KellyCriterion? My interpretation was KellyCriterion’s reason for voting Scuba\_Ben was to establish a two horse race. Not necessarily a fantastic reason, but it is a reason, and not one that I entirely disagree with. ---
**Author:** ![storyteller0910](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecae2f/32.png) [@storyteller0910](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/storyteller0910)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/789 "2010-02-08T14:52:05Z")
Regarding my vote for **Freudian** : I voted for the person for whom I was most suspicious, at the time when I had done enough reading and discussing to feel more or less comfortable with the vote. With rare exceptions, I don’t believe in voting in any other way; if I didn’t find the cases for **peeker** or **Scuba** compelling - and I didn’t - then voting for one of them just because they happen to be the lynch leaders doesn’t accurately reflect my thinking. And I will almost always vote late, unless something happens to promote a very strong suspicion earlier in the Day. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/790 "2010-02-08T15:14:42Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > **vote Rysto** > > Late, one-off vote on someone we now know was a Town power role, probably a Mason. I will not OMGUS, I will not OMGUS… You must be kidding. I voted for a Town power role? How on earth was I supposed to know that he was a power role? Seriously, this is just weak. As to the fact that it was late, well, the behaviour that I voted for occurred just a few hours before. Yes, it was a one-off, but I felt that it was worth bringing attention to. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/791 "2010-02-08T15:56:29Z")
Sorry for the delay but I wanted to be able to quote a bunch o posts and that’s a pain from my phone. > [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > I also don’t follow what, beside your gut, would tell you that 3 people voting for both Spawn and Scuba (while not voting for a Pondie peeker) is actually a signs of a scum plan to get us not to lynch Spawn. I know that wasn’t my motivation, so we’re down to 2 others, as I didn’t count your Spawn/Scuba vote because I’m assuming you are not confessing your part in the alleged scum-motivated plan. You may be able to make that claim about Natlaw, but I still don’t find it compelling. > > Scuba voters: > > 2: ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies – Spawn (193), Scuba\_Ben (549) > 4: Oredigger77 – Spawn (194), Scuba\_Ben (482) > 6: Meeko – Spawn (182), fluiddruid (334-386), peeker (386-507), Scuba\_Ben (507) > 12: Natlaw – Scuba\_Ben (460) > 16: KellyCriterion – Spawn (374), Scuba\_Ben (529) I think what gave me the idea was it actually being suggested . . . umm but I can’t find it. I thought I remembered Freudian or Fluid posting something about how we needed to lynch both Scuba and Peeker so that our discussion could move on toDay. I guess since that is just a figment of my imagination I’m probably imagining the whole thing. There a couple of people missing from your list thought and it’s another example how there could be a wagon formed by scum who aren’t on it at the end. (No I’m not accusing the missing of being scum). Here is Ed’s list of the people on Scuba’s case. > [@special\_ed](#): > > Here are the posts where Suba got his votes. > > \*\*Amrussell \*\*actually makes a case > > 1. Scuba snuggled with storyteller > 2. Scuba may have baited Meeko > > \*\*Natlaw \*\*agrees with the snuggle but doesn’t agree with the Meeko-baiting > > \*\*Oredigger \*\*is just poking Scuba to get him to respond > > **Meeko** …um…I don’t really know, I think he agreed with amrussell. But he voted for Scuba mostly for the Snuggling of Meeko himself and maybe baiting? > > **KellyCriterion** is just poking Scuba as well > > \*\*Cookies \*\*votes Scuba for skimming. She also doesn’t like his comments about the single or double lynching stuff. > > And now **Drain Bead** says she thinks she might vote this way. I’m going to drop this unless someone can back up my memory of the quote. Still even though I was part of it the Scuba case felt weak yesterDay and I had some concerns even while it was happening that we were being manipulated. Who know’s maybe I was full of it. > [@Meeko](#): > > How many if hard to say but since the max number on Scuba was 5 I would say the 4 is the max number is scum. > [snip] > **Digger** , do you mean to include a look at Scuba in your random group of 5, or does he get a pass? Well Ed put the list of people at seven and since I know that I’m town I’d say that up to six of them were scum but since I think there are only 4 scum I would say probably no more then 3 of them are scum. I never was looking about Scuba in this case because I think the make up of the wagon doesn’t reflect at all on the people on it. There is just as much chance of there being scum on the Peeker wagon now that he has been show to be town as there would have been if he had flipped scum. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/792 "2010-02-08T16:06:18Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I think what gave me the idea was it actually being suggested . . . umm but I can’t find it. I thought I remembered Freudian or Fluid posting something about how we needed to lynch both Scuba and Peeker so that our discussion could move on toDay. I guess since that is just a figment of my imagination I’m probably imagining the whole thing. Since I don’t think we should lynch two people in one day (we should lynch one potential scum and one spawn, IMO), I think you’re right about it being a figment. At least in regard to me. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/793 "2010-02-08T16:15:57Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > I think what gave me the idea was it actually being suggested . . . umm but I can’t find it. I thought I remembered Freudian or Fluid posting something about how we needed to lynch both Scuba and Peeker so that our discussion could move on toDay. I guess since that is just a figment of my imagination I’m probably imagining the whole thing. > [@special\_ed](#): > > So, if Scuba is going to be lynched, would it be beneficial to lynch Peeker as well and get all that behind us? Is this what you were thinking of? ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/794 "2010-02-08T16:34:02Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > Is this what you were thinking of? Yep, that would be pretty much it I just misremembered the person. Of course having a proven townie suggest it really doesn’t help with my thought process of scum trying to motivate us. I’ll do some more thinking and see if I want to pick this idea back up. I don’t have much else to go on so it may be worth it to try and see how he was manipulated, if he was. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/795 "2010-02-08T16:36:43Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > **vote Rysto** > > Late, one-off vote on someone we now know was a Town power role, probably a Mason. I can understand voting for a late, one-off vote. But how does the fact that it was a Town power role mean anything? Who could have known that he had that role prior to his lysing? For a suspicious vote: **vote Drain Bead** ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/796 "2010-02-08T16:40:01Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > vote Rysto > > Late, one-off vote **on someone we now know was a Town power role, probably a Mason.** How is the bolded part relevant at all? We didn’t have a night start, so it’s pretty good (granted not certain) odds that scum would have no knowledge about it yesterday. The motivation quoted looks good on the surface, but it smells funny. **vote Drain Bead** for now. > [@KellyCriterion](#): > > The non-sensical rush to lynch peeker was pointless, and I am on the record stating that I thought the case against him was weak, and I stated it prior to us learning that peeker was town. > > My vote had some motive which I stated.. basically it was a “let’s even up for the voting tally to see if the extra pressure being applied causes some sort of slip”. At least I was trying something. > > In other news.. is there ever a good reason that we wouldn’t lynch a spawn every single day? I can understand if we reach an end-game where we think the scum are on the verge of outnumbering us, so we throw a “Hail Mary” double player kill in an effort to steal the win.. but other than that, why would we _not_ always lynch the spawn? Try going back to Yesterday, I outlined a few reasons I thought were good. This smacks dangerously of skimming. Skimming is a potential sign of scumminess–and frankly I’m not buying your innocent newbie schtick–you’re juxtaposing “what’s a mason” with at least pseudo-sophisticated self-defense like in the beginning of this post. It smells bad to me here too.. **vote KellyCriterion** Before the lynch, I will switch a vote to Spawn because at this point I believe we are still too early in the game to not lynch Spawn. However, I don’t feel any need to hold back votes for players this early in the Day. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/797 "2010-02-08T16:45:43Z")
I don’t think **Drain Bead** ’s reasoning is as bad as you are saying. No, **Rysto** couldn’t have known it was a power role. But **special ed** was playing fairly pro-town, and to vote for him at the last minute does kind of show that it’s a poor vote. Plus then he just so happens to die…though then again, could be scum trying to make it look like a townie **Rysto** is scum, so who knows. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/798 "2010-02-08T16:49:36Z")
> [@amrussell](#): > > Snipped, Bold added > > Secondly, we know \*\*ed \*\*was town. That at least tells us that everything he posted was in good faith. But most of what he posted was about double-lysing (or not), or his case against **peeker** , which doesn’t seem to tell us much. He was also the most prolific poster at the time of his death - **I half-wonder if the point of killing him was just to make us waste time reading all his posts for clues?** In any case, it feels like empty speculation at this point. No no, I agree here. I went back and grabbed a lot of Ed’s quotes. I wanted to compare it to other people advocating for double player kills, that spawn can wait. If I may go one further on you amrussell: Scum do not want Spawn dead. Spawn are aligned with Scum and their guaranteed population increase each summer outweighs the random chance of adding a vote to scum. Was Ed adding or taking away to their conversation? Would it be easier to sell just one box of Spawn misconceptions [excuse the pun] with the Scum brand, or was Ed on to to something? Was Ed Noise or Signal to Scum? WIFOM. Why would Scum kill someone who was against an immediate Spawn vote every day? Why would Scum kill someone who was that vocal about it ? ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/799 "2010-02-08T16:50:36Z")
NETA : I Went back to grab Ed’s posts and was too overwhelmed to do anything with it after I got it all. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/800 "2010-02-08T17:26:33Z")
Vote total: Spawn 8 Drain Bead 2 KellyCriterion 2 Rysto 1 [del]1: special ed[/del] 2: ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies – Spawn (727) 3: Drain Bead – Spawn (737), Rysto (785) 4: Oredigger77 – Spawn (717) 5: storyteller0910 6: Meeko – Spawn (715) 7: Mahaloth – Spawn (721), KellyCriterion (778) 8: Freudian Slit – Spawn (718) 9: USCDiver – Spawn (749) 10: Alka Seltzer [del]11: peekercpa[/del] 12: Natlaw 13: Zeriel – Drain Bead (796), KellyCriterion (796) 14: DiggitCamara – Drain Bead (795) 15: amrussell 16: KellyCriterion – Spawn (740) 17: Scuba\_Ben 18: sachertorte 19: fluiddruid 20: TexCat – Spawn (722) 21: Rysto [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202.md?page=39) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202.md?page=41)