# Scum mafia: On Cecil pond \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 24, 2010, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202 "2010-01-24T05:10:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 41
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/801 "2010-02-08T18:25:16Z")
> [@DiggitCamara](#): > > I can understand voting for a late, one-off vote. But how does the fact that it was a Town power role mean anything? Who could have known that he had that role prior to his lysing? So you’re saying that if I’d simply said “for someone we now know was Town,” you’d have no problem with my vote? What’s the difference between what I said and what you “can understand” that makes it more likely for me to be Scum? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/802 "2010-02-08T18:31:35Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > So you’re alleging that you had tunnel vision while writing that post. You were so convinced that **peeker** was Town that when an opposing lynch bandwagon started up, you assumed that this was the scum response to the heat that **peeker** was getting. You’re so certain of your case against **peeker** is a good one that you’ve concluded that **Scuba** _must_ be Town. But in the very same post that you assumed that **Scuba** must be Town, you said this: > > Oh yes, you’re very certain here. > > I think that you’re lying. I think that you slipped into Perfect Information Syndrome and accidentally revealed that you know that **Scuba** is Town. I called you on it immediately and you had to offer some kind of response, but your explanation doesn’t match your own words from the very same post in which you slipped. This reads like a half assed last minute post to me, no offense. **special ed** admits that the vote on **peeker** isn’t perfect, and I felt the same way–however, we both felt he was as anti town in his behavior as you can get, even if he didn’t end up flipping town. And he didn’t say anything about knowing **Scuba** is town. Maybe you’re parsing it that way but I don’t see it. Granted, he’s dead and he’s town–but I’m not jumping on you for going after a townie. I’m saying it’s weird that you did that at the last minute, as if you had to vote else garner suspicion. But you have poor reasoning for picking ed. **vote rysto** ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/803 "2010-02-08T18:47:06Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > This reads like a half assed last minute post to me, no offense. A half-assed vote on Day One? Now that’s totally unheard of! We only have perfectly backed up, comprehensive Day One cases around here. Seriously, what do you expect? > [@](#): > > **special ed** admits that the vote on **peeker** isn’t perfect, and I felt the same way–however, we both felt he was as anti town in his behavior as you can get, even if he didn’t end up flipping town. Yeah? Well, anti-Town isn’t the same as pro-Scum. That’s exactly what I said yesterday, and that’s why I didn’t vote for peeker. > [@](#): > > And he didn’t say anything about knowing **Scuba** is town. Good lord, could you be any more obviously skimming? He _admitted_ to making that assumption! > [@special\_ed](#): > > > [@Rysto](#): > > > > :dubious: > > > > That would be predicated on the assumption that Scuba is going to come up Town, ed? Is there anything you’d care to share with the rest of the class? > > Yeah, there is that assumption. I guess I’m still looking at the game through ‘peeker is Scum’ goggles. I should stop that. ---
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/804 "2010-02-08T18:52:27Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Was Ed adding or taking away to their conversation? Would it be easier to sell just one box of Spawn misconceptions [excuse the pun] with the Scum brand, or was Ed on to to something? Was Ed Noise or Signal to Scum? > > WIFOM. > > Why would Scum kill someone who was against an immediate Spawn vote every day? > Why would Scum kill someone who was that vocal about it ? Frankly, I think you’re overthinking the decision. I’ve played scum in enough games – you have a pretty limited amount of time and you’re on the first Night, so you make your arguments and you pick a candidate relatively fast. Usually it comes down to “let’s peg someone who’s strong and who doesn’t have a good chance of being suspected in the foreseeable future”. Ed was a good candidate because he substantively contributed a lot of analysis, the bulk of which I’d consider good (or at least well-thought-out, and well-defended) advice. The spawn vote may not have been a consideration at all in offing him at all; frankly I think it works to scum’s benefit to continue the whole spawn debate until there really is a reason to double-vote players, despite the reasonably strong consensus, due to just adding to the level of noise. **vote spawn** ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/805 "2010-02-08T18:53:02Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > A half-assed vote on Day One? Now that’s totally unheard of! We only have perfectly backed up, comprehensive Day One cases around here. Seriously, what do you expect? Other people made cases. **special ed** and I did, for one. Even though it’s day one, you can still try to back up your case with evidence. > [@](#): > > Yeah? Well, anti-Town isn’t the same as pro-Scum. That’s exactly what I said yesterday, and that’s why I didn’t vote for peeker. True, but even though both of those guys came up Town, **peeker** was coming off as way scummier. Anti town isn’t always scummy but if you have to vote for someone, why vote for the person who’s going to make life difficult, versus the person who’s engaging in thought provoking dialog? **special ed** was a valued member of our team and I think voting for him is pretty anti-town. > [@](#): > > Good lord, could you be any more obviously skimming? He _admitted_ to making that assumption! He said: > [@special\_ed](#): > > Yeah, there is that assumption. I guess I’m still looking at the game through ‘peeker is Scum’ goggles. _I should stop that._ Emphasis mine. He said that under the assumption that Scuba is town, then we should look at **peeker** as though scum were manipulating. “There is that assumption.” But he points out that that assumption isn’t a right one and he withdraws it. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/806 "2010-02-08T18:54:07Z")
Er, for “emphasis mine,” I meant to emphasize “I should stop that.” ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/807 "2010-02-08T19:01:33Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Other people made cases. **special ed** and I did, for one. Yes, and I disagreed on all counts with your case. It wasn’t at all compelling to me. > [@](#): > > True, but even though both of those guys came up Town, **peeker** was coming off as way scummier. Well, I disagreed. Are you seriously voting for me for disagreeing on this? > [@](#): > > He said that under the assumption that Scuba is town, then we should look at **peeker** as though scum were manipulating. “There is that assumption.” But he points out that that assumption isn’t a right one and he withdraws it. You really didn’t understand my point at all, did you? The problem I had was that **ed** made a completely baseless assumption at the start. In my experience, that usually happens because the player has secret knowledge to back up the assumption. When a player assumes that another is Town, especially on Day One, the most likely reason for that assumption is that player is scum and _knows_ that other player is Town. The fact that he withdrew the assumption after being called on it was irrelevant to my case. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/808 "2010-02-08T19:03:35Z")
I understand your points, **Rysto**. And I’m not voting for you just for disagreeing. I’m saying that I find your reasoning for voting for **special ed** very lacking, and because you didn’t really vote or talk all that much, it came across as you feeling you’d come under fire for NOT voting at all. So you chose someone, and it was for a really bad (IMO) reason. My vote on you stands for now. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/809 "2010-02-08T19:05:35Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > When a player assumes that another is Town, especially on Day One, the most likely reason for that assumption is that player is scum and _knows_ that other player is Town. Um…or they’re playing the odds maybe? ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/810 "2010-02-08T19:07:11Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > So you’re saying that if I’d simply said “for someone we now know was Town,” you’d have no problem with my vote? > > What’s the difference between what I said and what you “can understand” that makes it more likely for me to be Scum? No. Your reasoning is wrong, whether you mention his power role or not. It seems like an attempt to give your vote some extra weight when it has none ( **Freudian Slit** post shows how a better vote for him could be phrased). > [@Freudian Slit](#): > > (snipped) [S]pecial ed was playing fairly pro-town, and to vote for him at the last minute does kind of show that it’s a poor vote. (snipped) Additionally it’s a dangerous way to rationalize votes for future seasons: Look at [PLAYER]! He voted for town! Let’s lyse him! ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/811 "2010-02-08T19:09:04Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > So you’re saying that if I’d simply said “for someone we now know was Town,” you’d have no problem with my vote? > > What’s the difference between what I said and what you “can understand” that makes it more likely for me to be Scum? Didn’t address your last point. It smells like a subtle smear (if you’ll pardon the mixed metaphor). You’re voting for him whilst subtly accusing him of knowledge he couldn’t have had. And that seems scummy to me. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/812 "2010-02-08T19:17:26Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I’m saying that I find your reasoning for voting for **special ed** very lacking And I found your reasons for voting for peeker very lacking. Such is mafia. > [@](#): > > , and because you didn’t really vote or talk all that much, it came across as you feeling you’d come under fire for NOT voting at all. Is the implication here that I got all the way to the end of the Day before realizing, “Oh my God, if I don’t vote it will look really scummy!” I kinda hope you’d give me a little more credit than that. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/813 "2010-02-08T19:30:50Z")
I’m not seeing the Rysto case. The idea that a scummy Rysto would vote for Special Ed for a spurious reason then nightkill him doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. I don’t discount the possibility, but it just seems ‘off’ to me. I’m not saying that Rysto is Town, but that the circumstances of his vote don’t really point in either direction. Furthermore, the notion that Rysto intentionally voted for Special Ed because he was a Town Power Role is ridiculous. Finally, as far as cases go, Rysto’s case was not all that unusual as far as I have seen. As someone who has been on the receiving end of PIS accusations when it was simply a matter of sloppiness I was willing to accept Special Ed’s responses for the time being. However, Rysto’s pursuit is entirely consistent with general PIS play. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/814 "2010-02-08T20:54:22Z")
Maybe it’s just that when I’ve seen townies accused of PIS, it’s often done by a Scum trying to take advantage of something that can be construed as a “slip” by others. See my suspicion of…shit, who was it…amrussell? In Colorless? Scum will try to latch onto stuff like that, because it is a lot easier than actually making a real case against someone. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/815 "2010-02-08T20:57:20Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > Maybe it’s just that when I’ve seen townies accused of PIS, it’s often done by a Scum trying to take advantage of something that can be construed as a “slip” by others. See my suspicion of…shit, who was it…amrussell? In Colorless? Scum will try to latch onto stuff like that, because it is a lot easier than actually making a real case against someone. Hm. That’s entirely possible. I can’t remember if those jumping on my slip were Town or Scum. Maybe I should look it up. (I can’t even remember which game it was though). ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/816 "2010-02-08T21:02:44Z")
My vote remains on Kelly because it is the strongest case to me right now. I will try to post thoughts on the other cases being made later, but I think this information is relevant and should be noted. From toDay: > [@KellyCriterion](#): > > My vote had some motive which I stated.. basically it was a “let’s even up for the voting tally to see if the extra pressure being applied causes some sort of slip”. At least I was trying _something_. I snipped the front and end of the quote. From yesterDay: But you said it was to watch him sweat, right? Was that meaning to draw a scum slip from him? I did not get that from what you said(quoted below, though snipped for length): > [@Kelly](#): > > … so in the spirit of Mafia Day 1 recklessness and with openly declared provocation-based intent, I cast a vote at Scuba\_Ben purely to close the gap on the vote leaderboard, just so I can watch him sweat: Then, you later clarified, so to speak: > [@Kelly](#): > > Ok, a couple of people have asked me to give further info on why I voted to lynch Scuba\_Ben, specifically wanting to know what my case is against him. > > I have no case at all against him. I was also asked who my “top pick” is for scum at the moment. > > I don’t have one. > > The vote for Scuba\_Ben was purely for provocation, we might be able to glean more info on Day 1 if two people feel at genuine risk of getting lynched, instead of just one. > > That’s all I’ve got to run with right now.. I haven’t been convinced by any of the reasoning put forth so far as to why people are suspecting others of being scum. I closed a gap or two there for space, but I do not see you trying to get a scum slip out of it. I think you are fabricating a cause now to try to cover for yourself. Now, if you did mention your scum slip hunt-plan later, please show me the link. I am more than aware that I miss things, so fill me in. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/817 "2010-02-08T21:03:24Z")
What is PIS? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/818 "2010-02-08T21:07:10Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > What is PIS? I think it’s something like “prior information slip”, like when someone reveals they know something from their role. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/819 "2010-02-08T21:08:45Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I think it’s something like “prior information slip”, like when someone reveals they know something from their role. Perfect Information Syndrome, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/820 "2010-02-08T21:09:54Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > What is PIS? “Perfect Information Syndrome”–the kind of slip where you casually assert as fact something that you could not possibly have known as a vanilla town. Can be a signal someone is scum or town power role. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202.md?page=40) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202.md?page=42)