# Scum mafia: On Cecil pond \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 24, 2010, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202 "2010-01-24T05:10:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 58
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1141 "2010-02-13T23:32:12Z")
Avenge meeeeee! Also: Spoiler me! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1142 "2010-02-14T01:37:23Z")
OK, I’ve spoiled you, but you’ll have to find someone else for the avenging. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1143 "2010-02-14T01:39:03Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > However, Meeko is starting toDay with an odd comment, which I see Natlaw also noticed right away. I don’t get what he was talking about with vote re-examination and his votes being his and his alone. I also don’t get what he is talking about in his response to Natlaw calling him out for it. And why would Natlaw have to be more specific about his comment? > > Meeko has been more clear lately and it almost is feeling like he is being intentionally vague and hard to understand. Very weird…hmmmm. > > What’s up with that Meeko? I felt the end of last summer getting VERY escalated. I felt if the end of summer came perhaps an hour later, I would have been lynched. I would like to think that the time off helped all of us cool down, to the point where it could blow over.\*\* I figured I had to address the situation as soon as this summer started. While it is not an apology, I feel it does some of the same things. \*\* For reasons I don’t think I will ever understand, I have gotten pressure on me for my number of Unvotes. As if my actions alone could be the scapegoat for everyone else, and their votes. As if my votes had more power to them than any other. Obviously, it is a part of the game, so I would like to think there is some inflation on my ““charges”” of unvoting. And indeed I do feel charged with something. In short **Mahaloth** , The game got to me, and I told the game I needed some time. I felt when I came back, I would have some 'splaining to do. People are trying to look at my votes and conclude something. If you guys conclude anything, let me know, I am dying to know myself. I Reject the premise of the second statement. The game got to me, and the reaction there was rapid fire responses with out the luxury of expanding my thoughts in the more favorable way as seen for most of this game. I think that there is a negative correlation between you guys understanding me, and time left to answer posts in each day. Make no mistake, my posts for this game still average 30-45 minutes [And the Olympics aren’t helping]. There is no way to make 45 minutes into 15. There is no way to get this, in the time I felt I had left to answer at the end of last summer. I reject it further, because I do not believe that anyone, and certainly not you **Mahaloth** would entertain that I would “chose” to post like my previous games, at any point in time, let alone when I have demonstrated an alternative. I can chose to post like this, certainly, but when I don’t chose anything, I think we all know the alternative. The question was brought up, if you could scum hunt from Votes alone. I believe that scum hunting from votes needs to be defined further. What votes do we count, what votes do we not count? Do we count timing? Do we count vote position? [Are you the third to vote for someone? Was there 3 votes after one post, but only one vote after each of three other posts?] ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1144 "2010-02-14T03:14:28Z")
Hey guys; I’m just checking in quickly. I’m at my parents for a long weekend but I will be home on Wednesday. Until they my participation will be rather sporadic. ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1145 "2010-02-14T04:25:38Z")
Like **Rysto** , just checking in. Will be having a thorough re-read to decide what on earth happened to cause the late flood of votes on **fluid**. On another note, the night kills of **special ed** and **Zeriel**. Is there anything we can glean out of the scum decision to kill them? (I am assuming of course that the scum are killing every night, and the kills aren’t the result of some kind of “power role”)… Finally, congratulations, **Mahaloth**. For the first time all game, you’ve managed to get through the first part of a Day without racing your vote on to a Townie. Well done. **Vote spawn** ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1146 "2010-02-14T06:07:21Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > Finally, congratulations, **Mahaloth**. For the first time all game, you’ve managed to get through the first part of a Day without racing your vote on to a Townie. Well done. This post bugs me. I’ve read you’re new to the game. It sounds like PIS, and smudge on Mahaloth. Please explain why you believe that Mahaloth races in to vote a town player. In other words, if you’ve got a case, make it. **FOS Kelly Criterion.** * * * **Meeko** , you voted me at the end of the day yesterday (before I subbed in) on the basis that you had some questions that you’d like answers to. Can you please restate these questions so that I don’t have to hunt to find them? And if anyone else has any questions or concerns that they asked me (scuba) before that he didn’t not address please also restate them so that I may address them. My initial feelings: None really, this game has been very active and there has been a lot of strategy discussion which IMO is often meaningless in determining scum. AKA, I’m still organizing my thoughts and digesting things. **@Alka** : You may have already answered this; if so, feel free to point me to the relevant posts as I may have missed them. You were fairly persistent when Storyteller refused to continue discussion of double player lysing with you, what then is the scum motivation for refusing to continue discussion? I think there is something here that I’m missing. Since many have commented on their position of double-lysing, I shall do so as well, so that it’s on the record. There are only a tiny handful of situations where I see double lysing as effective for town play. Quite frankly, if you vote two players, you better have a pretty damn good justification. The attitude “that spawn is already going to be lynched, I might as well vote two players” is anti-town. If you vote this way, you are providing extra cover for scum to spread their votes amongst themselves, and dilute the voting record. If you want to put pressure on another player, then make a solid case, or use your one remaining vote. **Vote spawn** ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1147 "2010-02-14T06:56:44Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > This post bugs me. I’ve read you’re new to the game. It sounds like PIS, and smudge on Mahaloth. _ **Please explain why you believe that Mahaloth races in to vote a town player** _. I have no idea why he keeps doing it, but it’s certainly not very pro-Town, is it? As for whether it’s a smudge on **Mahaloth** , yes, you most certainly can consider it a smudge. As for my “Perfect Information Slip” (hey! KellyCriterion said he’s a noob but he knows what PIS stands for! LYNCH HIM!!), uhm, huh? **Mahaloth** voted for **peeker** early on Day 1 ( **peeker** got lynched and _turned up town_), and then voted for **me** early on Day 2. If my “perfect information slip” was knowing my own alignment in this game, then yes, I’m guilty of PIS. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1148 "2010-02-14T07:33:34Z")
No one else knows your alignment, Kelly, and lots of other people voted for peeker on Day 1 and fluid on Day 2, and for Ed, and maybe even for Zeriel but I don’t exactly recall. So if you’re going to smudge someone for voting for a townie, Mahaloth is in good company and your smudge is going to have to be a wee bit bigger. If you are going to try and smudge someone for voting early, I’m afraid you’re likely to have even less luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1149 "2010-02-14T07:43:43Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > I have no idea why he keeps doing it, but it’s certainly not very pro-Town, is it? Town votes for town all the time. Town voting for someone and having them turn up town is not really telling of anything (null). Mostly because town has no clue who other town is, and generally will vote town more often than vote scum. > [@KellyCriterion](#): > > As for whether it’s a smudge on **Mahaloth** , yes, you most certainly can consider it a smudge. Smudging is bad. Smudging is impugning someone with no real case, or casting suspicion in a matter that seemingly avoids accountability. More bluntly, why do wish to cast suspicion on Mahaloth on such spurious reasoning? If you have better reasoning, why have you not presented that instead of this faux-reasoning? > [@KellyCriterion](#): > > As for my “Perfect Information Slip” (hey! KellyCriterion said he’s a noob but he knows what PIS stands for! LYNCH HIM!!), uhm, huh? **Mahaloth** voted for **peeker** early on Day 1 ( **peeker** got lynched and _turned up town_), and then voted for **me** early on Day 2. If my “perfect information slip” was knowing my own alignment in this game, then yes, I’m guilty of PIS. I think you are looking at the context differently than I am, let me rephrase. It seems like you are implying that he is consistiently voting for town early. And that he made some statements about **Meeko** , and you are congratulating him on refraining from voting **Meeko**. The possible PIS is how do you know **Meeko** is town? ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 9:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1150 "2010-02-14T09:02:25Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > No one else knows your alignment, Kelly Nor did I suggest they did. > [@](#): > > and lots of other people voted for peeker on Day 1 and fluid on Day 2, and for Ed, and maybe even for Zeriel but I don’t exactly recall. My criticism was very specifically that Mahaloth _raced early votes on to townies_ at the beginning of Days 1 & 2, not simply that he voted for townies. > [@](#): > > So if you’re going to smudge someone for voting for a townie, Mahaloth is in good company and your smudge is going to have to be a wee bit bigger. As explained above, no it isn’t. > [@](#): > > If you are going to try and smudge someone for voting early, I’m afraid you’re likely to have even less luck with that. Again, no. _Racing early votes on to townies_ was my criticism. If you remove the part about the townies or if you remove the part about the early voting, you’re no longer talking about anything I said. Here, let me repeat it from my original post: > [@](#): > > Finally, congratulations, **Mahaloth**. For the first time all game, _you’ve managed to get through the first part of a Day without racing your vote on to a Townie_ ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1151 "2010-02-14T09:10:28Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > Town votes for town all the time. Town voting for someone and having them turn up town is not really telling of anything (null). Mostly because town has no clue who other town is, and generally will vote town more often than vote scum. See my post above. I did not criticise **Mahaloth** because he voted for a townie. > [@](#): > > Smudging is bad. Smudging is impugning someone with no real case, or casting suspicion in a matter that seemingly avoids accountability. OK, I didn’t know that “smudge” has a Mafia-specific definition. What I intended to say was, I am casting suspicion at **Mahaloth**. More accurately, I am casting suspicion on his non-pro-Town actions. > [@](#): > > More bluntly, why do wish to cast suspicion on Mahaloth on such spurious reasoning? If you have better reasoning, why have you not presented that instead of this faux-reasoning? And I say it’s not spurious, but rather, quite solid. > [@](#): > > I think you are looking at the context differently than I am, let me rephrase. It seems like you are implying that he is consistiently voting for town early. And that he made some statements about **Meeko** , and you are congratulating him on refraining from voting **Meeko**. The possible PIS is how do you know **Meeko** is town? Oh.. is that the suspicion? My comment was simply in reference to the fact that there was no early vote from **Mahaloth** , hence, no early vote on a townie. Had nothing to do with anything going on with **Meeko**. I don’t think I even read **Mahaloth’s** post.. I just checked to see if he’d voted yet. ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1152 "2010-02-14T14:54:58Z")
> [@fluiddruid](#): > > The late votes are bad, bad, bad. Clearly they can’t all be scum players but this simply cannot be allowed on future Days or Town is hosed. I strongly suggest that Town players strongly try to get people to vote and discuss voting earlier in the Day. Last minute, scantly-defended-and-too-late-to-adequately-defend-against votes are simply a problem. This. The late votes and bandwagons really hurt town. **@Red** - There is currently a mason claim on the table (Drain Bead). If you are a mason, and Drain is not, I think you should counter-claim. In the absence of a counter, Drain is almost certainly town. The only way Drain could be scum is if Communal Organism is not a mason (unlikely), and the scum were somehow able to guess this (even more unlikely). Looking at Meeko, I thought most of his Day 1 and Day 2 play was fine, I could understand what he was doing and why. I don’t know what to make of his play at the end of yesterDay. > [@Meeko](#): > > Really? > > \*\*This seems like an advantage for Vig. Not a drawback. \*\* > > I mean, you get a 100% free shot here. No one can harbor any grudge against you. > > If you are intent on Vigging someone anyway, that is all that matters. Not having information shouldn’t concern you in the least. It’s information after the fact. It doesn’t change how you felt for them before. > > I never, ever got the joke, where people eat something “Oh, I’ve never had rocky mountain oysters. This is pretty good, what are they again?” > > And then they puke. > > \*\*As if knowing the ingredients changed the taste. > \*\* > > **Unvote Story** > > Thanks for wasting my time. > > **Vote Scuba Ben** > Even if he will get subbed, I never got an answer, and I feel my vote on him at this point is better than not voting at all. **@Meeko** - You need to think about the game from a town[/U perspective. The death of a player without learning their alignment is a huge penalty to town, we can’t then look at the voting record to make judgements on the alignment of other players. You should understand this, weren’t you involved in the Lost game where this problem was a major factor in the town loss? **@Meeko** - Your unvotes were also a factor in the Fluid mislynch. What were you thinking about the case on Fluid? Did you post anything about this? > [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > **@Alka** : You may have already answered this; if so, feel free to point me to the relevant posts as I may have missed them. You were fairly persistent when Storyteller refused to continue discussion of double player lysing with you, what then is the scum motivation for refusing to continue discussion? I think there is something here that I’m missing. What initially caught my eye was that Story was consistantly arguing an anti-town position without making any effort to address the points against it. Fluid’s WoWs on Story covers a lot of this. His position is even harder to understand in the light of his claim. He is saying that he can’t kill spawn. From his perspective, that should increase the danger of leaving spawn alive, he had even less reason to assume they could be dealt with without lysing one every Day. I have speculated on what Story’s scum motivation might have been in various posts. I’ll summarise my case against Story into when I have time, but there are some other things I need to look at. One of the things I was worrying about, that Story might be a Toughguy, now looks unlikely, unless a town blocker stopped him last night (would a Toughguy normally lose their bonus kill if that happened?). **@Town** - I think this post of mine may have been missed in the scrum at the end of the Day: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12105864&postcount=1043](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12105864&postcount=1043). Also, is there any way we could test Story’s claim, and are there any circumstances where we might want to use his power? The only scenario I can think of is if we could generate a large pool of confirmed town, and wanted to increase the death-rate in unconfirmed pool. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1153 "2010-02-14T15:49:05Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > **@Red** - There is currently a mason claim on the table (Drain Bead). If you are a mason, and Drain is not, I think you should counter-claim. In the absence of a counter, Drain is almost certainly town. The only way Drain could be scum is if Communal Organism is not a mason (unlikely), and the scum were somehow able to guess this (even more unlikely). I have no information relating to any of the claims which have been made so far, other than what has been posted during the day threads. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1154 "2010-02-14T16:19:26Z")
Kelly, you are moving from beyond noobishness to idiocy. I think you are actually attacking me because I voted for you yesterDay. However, how do I know you are town? I don’t! Early votes are good. Late votes are usually bad. Sure, we all know I voted for peeker early, but I didn’t know he was town until it was revealed. Did you? And as for my early vote for you, we still don’t know if you are town or not. Of course you “know” this, but we don’t!!! I did not place and OMGUS vote, which I think you…actually did against me! I get that you don’t want me to vote for you, but don’t start attacking early voters. That is anti-town. Just chill out. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1155 "2010-02-14T16:57:04Z")
I have been suspicious of storyteller for his double lyse position and for his insistence on voting late. I don’t believe I ever got an answer to why he is insists on voting late; he just said that he always would. It is certainly possible to read this as a scum who wants to wait to see where his vote is needed and where it will not lead to suspicion, unless he really needs to lead a bandwagon away from a fellow scum earlier in the day. > [@storyteller0910](#): > > […]And I will almost always vote late, unless something happens to promote a very strong suspicion earlier in the Day. Regarding story’s claim and the drawback, sachertorte asked him some pretty specific questions: > [@sachertorte](#): > > […] > On the other hand, storyteller’s ‘very significant drawback’ gives me pause. I’m not sure what to make of it. As scum he would have an easier time simply leaving that part off. As town, he would be stating so simply because it is true. If the drawback is so terrible that storyteller will never kill, then I have a harder time seeing why he needs to be secret. Though he doesn’t really say “never” just ‘highly unlikely.’ > > **storyteller** , please weigh the cost-benefit between your ‘very significant drawback’ and proving your power. In other words, is throwing out a Winter Kill worth it to show Town you aren’t lying about your power? > Scenario: storyteller kills during Winter. storyteller uses the don’t talk during night but there is no punishment loophole and posts his target just before Summer. > (Yes, scummy storyteller could just use the scum kill to perpetuate his lie, but then we would only see one death, which would be suspicious. Double yes, scum could forgo their kill to make storyteller look bad, but hey, no scum kill is a good thing right?) > > **storyteller** , could you post your role PM? Feel free to redact your ‘very significant drawback.’ > [@storyteller0910](#): > > Sach - > > […]Well, there’s the reason. There are specific and unlikely circumstances under which I might attempt a kill. If those circumstances happen to arise - which again, is probably not likely - I would prefer that there not be a handbook on how to handle me available to the Scum. > > Most definitely _not_. For me to kill at this time would be _quite_ anti-Town in my opinion. > > Sure. It’s short. > > “You are an amoeba, one of the largest of single-celled creatures, and as such, can completely engulf another organism to eat it. Every Winter, you may choose to PM me the name of any one other player to eat and kill. \ You are aligned with the Pond, and win or lose when the Pond does.”[…] Later, after quite a bit of pressure, story reveals the drawback: > [@storyteller0910](#): > > […]I will reveal my power it at one minute before the deadline if I am going to be lynched, in order to supply the maximum amount of information, but I will not do it at any time before then and I will NOT do it while I am alive. As long as I am in the game, the Pond benefits from my information remaining secret. > [@storyteller0910](#): > > […]The drawback can be managed, even ameliorated, under very specific and limited circumstances. The minute I share it, my hope of using my power effectively in one of the few possible situations where it will be useful is reduced significantly. Thus I will not reveal it so long as I’m in the game. If I’m to be lynched toDay, I’ll let you all in on it once my death appears inevitable, in case it has some sort of relevance to the rest of the setup (and because the drawback is only relevant if I’m alive, and it would be kind of jerky to keep the secret to my grave, y’know?)[…] > [@storyteller0910](#): > > […]I’ve changed my mind again; I’m done with this Day. Lynch me or don’t, but the fact that people are just flat out doing shit like **Freudian** just did makes it clear that I’m getting lynched. > > If I kill, neither the role nor the alignment of the player I kill will be publicly revealed. > > Now kill me, please. > > Storyteller, out. After all of that, I understand that not getting roles or alignments is bad for pondies. I don’t understand how revealing the drawback is “a handbook on how to handle me available to the Scum.” I don’t understand how “the Pond benefits from my information remaining secret.” And I don’t understand the one situation that story might have used his power is somehow different now that the pond knows the drawback. This all smells like a scum claim to me. Story claimed vig and then had to provide some reason for not having his claim tested and so he invented the drawback. He did not plan on revealing the drawback and so some of the reveal seems not to have been thought out very thoroughly. The reasons for not revealing the drawback do not seem to match the actual drawback. **vote spawn vote storyteller** ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1156 "2010-02-14T17:15:23Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > **Meeko** , you voted me at the end of the day yesterday (before I subbed in) on the basis that you had some questions that you’d like answers to. Can you please restate these questions so that I don’t have to hunt to find them? I am not trying to be a dick here, but I think we are both confused. \*\* I had questions to Chronos, on what the value of voting Scuba would be after he stated he had the possibillity [and now certainty] of being Subbed. \*\* Obviously, a Sub is different than a Mod kill. I will have to review my case on Scuba/Red. I will represent my case towards you if I make one, Red, but I can not think of any outstanding questions currently. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1157 "2010-02-14T17:32:30Z")
> [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > Looking at Meeko, I thought most of his Day 1 and Day 2 play was fine, I could understand what he was doing and why. I don’t know what to make of his play at the end of yesterDay. > > **@Meeko** - You need to think about the game from a town[/U perspective. The death of a player without learning their alignment is a huge penalty to town, we can’t then look at the voting record to make judgements on the alignment of other players. You should understand this, weren’t you involved in the Lost game where this problem was a major factor in the town loss? > > **@Meeko** - Your unvotes were also a factor in the Fluid mislynch. What were you thinking about the case on Fluid? Did you post anything about this? 1. Repeating : I think we can all agree that I can either post Quality or Quantity. Quantity comes at the penalty of being a 45 minute ordeal. I felt attacked and my reflex was rapid quantity. Quality and coherence went out the door. 2. You asked for this, so I will go back here again. In LOST the same situation came up. We later found out that my unvote saved the lynch of a townie. The argument still remains, that **everyone and their brother was on me, because I would not cast the deciding vote to lynch a Townie.** I fail to see how unvoting a townie, is Anti-Town. But sure enough, this is exactly what I was charged with. Players still in the game remain Town, or Scum after a death with out information. The informationless death only stops the play of the dead person. There is no worse fate here, than if a player completely stops playing, and is not subbed or mod killed. How does my Unvoting for Fluid cause the mislynch? \*\*As I remember the math, the Spawn would broke any tie, anyway. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1158 "2010-02-14T17:33:34Z")
NETA: **Quality** comes at the cost of being a 45 minute ordeal.:smack: ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1159 "2010-02-14T17:43:50Z")
Vote total: Spawn 7 Storyteller0910 1 [del]1: special\_ed[/del] 2: ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies – Spawn (1139) 3: Drain Bead 4: Oredigger77 5: storyteller0910 6: Meeko – Spawn (1135) 7: Mahaloth – Spawn (1140) 8: Freudian Slit – Spawn (1136) 9: USCDiver 10: Alka Seltzer [del]11: peekercpa[/del] 12: Natlaw [del]13: Zeriel[/del] 14: DiggitCamara 15: amrussell 16: KellyCriterion – Spawn (1145) 17: Red Skeezix – Spawn (1146) 18: sachertorte [del]19: fluiddruid[/del] 20: TexCat – Spawn (1155), Storyteller (1155) 21: Rysto ---
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1160 "2010-02-14T18:35:27Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > 1. Repeating : I think we can all agree that I can either post Quality or Quantity. Quantity comes at the penalty of being a 45 minute ordeal. I felt attacked and my reflex was rapid quantity. Quality and coherence went out the door. Go for quality please. > [@Meeko](#): > > 1. You asked for this, so I will go back here again. In LOST the same situation came up. We later found out that my unvote saved the lynch of a townie. The argument still remains, that **everyone and their brother was on me, because I would not cast the deciding vote to lynch a Townie.** Didn’t a town player die anyway, but as a result of the tie no-one knew if they were town or scum? That was why it was anti-town. It’s a disaster for a player to die without town finding out their alignment. > [@Meeko](#): > > Players still in the game remain Town, or Scum after a death with out information. The informationless death only stops the play of the dead person. See above. > [@Meeko](#): > > How does my Unvoting for Fluid cause the mislynch? Your unvote of Story implies that you thought Fluid was a better lynch that him. Was this the case? Did you indicate this anywhere? Unvotes can be just as significant as votes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202.md?page=57) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202.md?page=59)