# Scum mafia: On Cecil pond \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 24, 2010, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202 "2010-01-24T05:10:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/101 "2010-01-26T22:27:43Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Could we please not discuss the strategy implications of the setup until we’re assured that we can’t trust each other? I almost edited that aspect of my post, but what imho sucks worse than figuring out that whatever your faction is had some strategy scooped in pre-game, is playing with people on your own team who have a fundamental misconception of the rules. Especially if those people are yourself. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/102 "2010-01-26T22:32:40Z")
Meh. Everything I’ve posted I would have posted as scum or as Town so I don’t really see your point. It’s not like correcting misconceptions about the rules would involve some nefarious scum plot anyway. I’m actually wondering if Chronos is aware that the spawn mechanic degrades the game. I suppose some hidden aspect might make a difference, but I’m not really sure. The solid play is to lyse spawn every Summer leaving ZERO spawn during winter anyway. So to some degree, I question the spawn mechanic in its entirety. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/103 "2010-01-26T22:36:04Z")
> [@storyteller0910](#): > > And, in the sentence I have been waiting to type since I started playing Mafia: > > **I agree with peeker and Meeko.** > > (I would pay cash money to be Scum with the two of you, by the way, partly so you’d both _get off my back_ for one game, and partly because we’d either be really great or game-overed by end of Day Three) and no offense to anyone but yeh. either you or **sach**. problem is **sach** might just come clean about our potential alignment just out of general annoyance. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/104 "2010-01-26T22:44:16Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Meh. > Everything I’ve posted I would have posted as scum or as Town so I don’t really see your point. It’s not like correcting misconceptions about the rules would involve some nefarious scum plot anyway. I’m actually wondering if Chronos is aware that the spawn mechanic degrades the game. I suppose some hidden aspect might make a difference, but I’m not really sure. The solid play is to lyse spawn every Summer leaving ZERO spawn during winter anyway. > > So to some degree, I question the spawn mechanic in its entirety. In different words, but at least in my actions so far, I think you can conclude that your thoughts are mine as well. I’m willing to give Chronos the benefit of the doubt here, and I’m \> \< close to stating that power roles are 100% given. The lack of information here is by design, not by accident. If not, we can break the mechanics up, and have them pond off for a quick buck. [[Been waiting to use that one. I guess my Koi one wooshed.]] ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/105 "2010-01-26T22:45:57Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Could we please not discuss the strategy implications of the setup until we’re assured that we can’t trust each other? and what’s new. i disagree **tom**. i think getting some of the general strategy what if’s right now with some input while folks don’t have a clue provides some real data points for future analysis. right now, i assume, most comments are being made and discussed honestly. so if someone starts behaving inconsistently once their alignment is known - lyse them or at least inquire skeptically. ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/106 "2010-01-26T22:48:06Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > [[Been waiting to use that one. I guess my Koi one wooshed.]] \ no, i got it. but honestly, it just wasn’t that funny or memorable. sorry, but i calls 'em like i see 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/107 "2010-01-26T22:55:27Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > \ > > no, i got it. but honestly, it just wasn’t that funny or memorable. sorry, but i calls 'em like i see 'em. “Comedy is a Volume business, if you didn’t like that one, wait a minute, another one is coming.” - Conan O’Brien ---
**Author:** ![peekercpa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8baadc/32.png) [@peekercpa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peekercpa)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/108 "2010-01-26T23:08:36Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > “Comedy is a Volume business, if you didn’t like that one, wait a minute, another one is coming.” - Conan O’Brien ok, fuck it. i was kidding. maybe the funniest thing i have read in a month of sundays. seriously, peed myself a little bit. rotflmao x 5. i’ll be sharing with my friends and family once i get a little control. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/109 "2010-01-27T00:03:48Z")
OK, I think I got it regarding the Spawn now. I’m ready to get my role and start playing whenever at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/110 "2010-01-27T00:32:26Z")
I think we’re starting Thursday afternoon. I’m stoked! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/111 "2010-01-27T01:30:16Z")
> [@peekercpa](#): > > ok, fuck it. i was kidding. maybe the funniest thing i have read in a month of sundays. seriously, peed myself a little bit. rotflmao x 5. i’ll be sharing with my friends and family once i get a little control. You keep that up, and I will have to show you my YouTube Channel. A promise and a threat. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/112 "2010-01-27T04:49:55Z")
Y’know, on further consideration, I don’t think I really have the time or mental resources for another Mafia game right now. Since things haven’t actually started yet, seems like a better time than any for this. **Chronos, please remove me from the game** ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/113 "2010-01-27T05:43:46Z")
**sach** , I agree with your interpretation of the Spawn mechanic with the added caveat that the (hopefully) one Spawn which is alive at the end of each Summer will have the random ability to potentially change who the town decides to lynch. I assume that every player will have one vote for Spawn, but if the other lysed player is only one vote ahead of another, then a Spawn vote could lead to a tie (which would be decicded randomly). So two random coin tosses could lead to a reversal of the town plurality vote. I think it would be wise to consider a one vote lead nearly the same as a tie vote near the end of Summer. I’ll also be looking askance at any player who does not vote for Spawn except for the rare cases \*\*sach \*\*mentions. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/114 "2010-01-27T06:16:23Z")
1: special\_ed 2: ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies 3: Drain Bead 4: Oredigger77 5: storyteller0910 6: Meeko 7: Mahaloth 8: Freudian Slit 9: USCDiver 10: 11: peekercpa 12: Natlaw 13: Zeriel 14: DiggitCamara 15: amrussell 16: KellyCriterion 17: Scuba\_Ben 18: sachertorte 19: fluiddruid 20: TexCat 21: Rysto (Red Skeezix) ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 11:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/115 "2010-01-27T11:21:05Z")
Just checkin’ in. Looking forward to the start. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/116 "2010-01-27T13:59:30Z")
It occurs to me that if the Pond knows that two Scum have been positively identified, there may be a benefit to lysing both Scum and letting the Spawn grow. The Spawnage will definitely make for an interesting mechanic. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/117 "2010-01-27T14:53:53Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Could we please not discuss the strategy implications of the setup until we’re assured that we can’t trust each other? Strategy talk is never scummy, pretty much period. As for you, Sach, you seriously don’t see the benefit of voting for a two scummy players while leaving the random actors alive to reproduce? My thought was that spawn is much less dangerous than scum simply because spawn has no plan. **Chronos, if the scum vote over winter is tied up, what happens? That is, say there is one scum and one spawn left, and the scum votes for one player and the spawn randomly picks another?** ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/118 "2010-01-27T16:01:44Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > As for you, Sach, you seriously don’t see the benefit of voting for a two scummy players while leaving the random actors alive to reproduce? My thought was that spawn is much less dangerous than scum simply because spawn has no plan. I know you didn’t address me, but I can see some problems with voting two non-Spawn in one Summer. Firstly, unless you’re 100% sure both are Scum, you’re giving the Scum team a huge advantage. Secondly, the following Summer will by necessity be a unanimous vote for both Spawn. That will give us no new information to analyze. Honestly a Scum/Spawn then Scum/Spawn vote is numerically similar to a Scum/Scum then Spawn/Spawn vote. The exception would be if we think we have found the last 2 Scum or we think we can prevent an anti-town Winter action by killing both Scum first. It’s true Spawn act randomly and have no plan, but that also means we can’t use their posts and votes to find other Scum. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/119 "2010-01-27T16:13:56Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > I know you didn’t address me, but I can see some problems with voting two non-Spawn in one Summer. Firstly, unless you’re 100% sure both are Scum, you’re giving the Scum team a huge advantage. Secondly, the following Summer will by necessity be a unanimous vote for both Spawn. That will give us no new information to analyze. Honestly a Scum/Spawn then Scum/Spawn vote is numerically similar to a Scum/Scum then Spawn/Spawn vote. The exception would be if we think we have found the last 2 Scum or we think we can prevent an anti-town Winter action by killing both Scum first. It’s true Spawn act randomly and have no plan, but that also means we can’t use their posts and votes to find other Scum. Pretty much what I’m thinking. Small deviations: - even if we think we have found the last two scum, voting scum/scum is not necessarily the correct play. It doesn’t end the game (there would still be a spawn running about), so I see little reason to pursue a scum/scum vote even in this case. Of course you could flip it around and say there is not a compelling reason to not vote scum scum in this case, but that is kind of the point. They are at best equivalent, so might as well stick to scum/spawn. - in my opinion the ONLY reasons to kill scum/scum during summer is if (1) we know with certainty that both are scum and posses a winter action OR (2) we know that a pro-town role can kill the spawn during winter. player/player kills necessitate a spawn/spawn kill to balance it out. That will be a very boring Summer. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/120 "2010-01-27T16:32:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Chronos, if the scum vote over winter is tied up, what happens? That is, say there is one scum and one spawn left, and the scum votes for one player and the spawn randomly picks another? All ties are resolved randomly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202.md?page=7)