# Scum mafia: On Cecil pond \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 24, 2010, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202 "2010-01-24T05:10:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 64
**Author:** ![Alka\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Alka\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alka_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1261 "2010-02-17T17:33:53Z")
Fair enough Drain. With the above, I’ve tried to look at the votes in context, but that wasn’t always possible with the volume of posts. If I’ve missed supporting posts, please point them out to me. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1262 "2010-02-17T19:22:06Z")
My vote for fluid was weak, and wrong, and as I said all along it was mostly OMGUS in response to her vote on peeker. I am not blaming story or fluid for my vote. The point I tried to raise about fluid deciding to WoW on story was shadowboxing, but the intent was to try and scrape together supporting evidence that hadn’t already been played. Unfortunately when Town players do that, it is hard to determine if the case was manufactured on purpose or in error. The reason I have not yet voted based on my circumstantial case against story is because it is circumstantial and because I was wrong about fluiddruid, I could still be wrong about Scuba, and collectively the Pond has been wrong with both lyses so far this game. I am trying not to participate in a mislynch again. Is it that you needed to see me put storyteller’s name in blue in order to not be tempted perceive my opening post as some sort of reverse-psychology defense of him? Because that is not what that post was, at all. ---
**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1263 "2010-02-17T20:38:27Z")
Looking at the **Mahaloth** case: > [@amrussell](#): > > Two parts to that - the gratuitous “knowing I’m town” is a little over-eager, but more importantly, the fear of drawing attention seems very scummy to me. It’s a scum trait to worry about reputation and how town will percieve you. He has a tendency to emphasize he’s town, see his Summer Two vote: > [@Mahaloth](#): > > It’s early still, so my vote may change, but I think town should have no problem getting early votes out there. I’m town, so here is my vote, at least for now. > > **Lyse KellyCriterion** > > for flat out voting with no rationale or even attempt a reasoning. Very anti-town behavior. Note that that also involved a bit of skimming - the reasoning was ‘to put pressure on **Scuba** ’. So it’s at least consistent behavior. For the rest the content of his posts seem relatively save. A scum motivation would be that he picks a weak voter (fluiddruid, Kellyx2) and then coasts along for the Summer. Mahaloth also argued that her vote Summer One wasn’t a bandwagon one or was starting one. Bit odd reasoning but might just be a definition question. Attempting to start bandwagon is any of the early votes on a player, while a votes a ‘bandwagon’ votes. **Vote Mahaloth** And this a ‘joining the band wagon’ vote. For picking an easy early votes and contributing not much beside it. **KellyCriterion** , can expand on what you think is wrong with **Mahaloth** ’s voting strategy? You didn’t want to discuss it Summer Two but it was part of your reasoning Summer Two. I asked about it and since you’re voting again for the same reasons so more details would be nice. To get it clear why not voting for the others: I don’t want a **Storyteller** lynch Today, the **Sachertorte** case seems involve a lot of OMGUS - a lack of looking for a motivation might be scummy, but it doesn’t mean his Storyteller votes weren’t without reason. **Meeko** ’s voting does look suspicious to me, but also seem unlikely to be made by scum (not because as he argued that ‘scum wouldn’t vote Scuba\_Ben’, but because I don’t think a scummy would vote that way and then explain it that way). I would still like some more rational why he didn’t revote **fluiddruid** who he suspected and voted earlier, said nothing that the suspicion was now gone and that he wanted to give Story the benefit of the doubt. Revoting fluid would have made that more sure than leaving them in a tie. Ah before I forget: **Vote Spawn!** Full is Full! Pond Plankton First! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1264 "2010-02-17T20:49:56Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > I actually made no claim on what I think **story’s** alignment is. You’ve imagined it. I know you haven’t made a claim. But this whole, “If story comes up town, we should look at \_\_\_\_” kind of makes me think you’re distancing yourself from the story bandwagon because you yourself have some reason to know that **story** is town and you want to sort of “told you so” if he does come up as a townie. When I was playing scum, and I wasn’t on a bandwagon for a townie, I was always profoundly grateful because it made me think that, “Oh, people won’t look at ME when this person comes up town because I was so far away.” I’m not utterly convinced you’re scum, but your play does so far kind of ring “Newbie trying to look as vanilla as possible but not quite doing it.” Anyway…we’re getting close to Winter. Can we have a vote count, **Chronos**? ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1265 "2010-02-17T21:34:27Z")
Sigh. Why do I have the feeling we are losing this game, fellow townies? \*\*Vote NatLaw \*\* for joining a bandwagon and stating it as much. I love that early voting is considered a weakness by some. ---
**Author:** ![ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e9bcb4/32.png) [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1266 "2010-02-17T21:49:51Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Sigh. Why do I have the feeling we are losing this game, fellow townies? > > \*\*Vote NatLaw \*\* > > for joining a bandwagon and stating it as much. I love that early voting is considered a weakness by some. Can you be more specific? I made a post where I explained why/when I don’t tend to vote early, but I’ve also made a post wherein I dismissed that aspect of Kelly’s “but he votes early for Pondies! A whole 2 of them! And I’m one of them!!” case against you, and suggested that voting early was not going to be considered suspicious activity by many people. Do I make your list? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1267 "2010-02-17T21:50:33Z")
Vote total: Spawn 14 Mahaloth 4 Storyteller0910 3 sachertorte 2 Natlaw 2 Meeko 1 DiggitCamara 1 KellyCriterion 1 [del]1: special\_ed[/del] 2: ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies – Spawn (1139) 3: Drain Bead – Mahaloth (1162), [del]Storyteller[/del] (1210-1220) 4: Oredigger77 – Spawn (1176), sachertorte (1194-1212,1214), [del]Storyteller[/del] (1212-1214) 5: storyteller0910 – sachertorte (1174), Spawn (1174) 6: Meeko – Spawn (1135), Natlaw (1170) 7: Mahaloth – Spawn (1140), Natlaw (1265) 8: Freudian Slit – Spawn (1136), KellyCriterion (1251) 9: USCDiver – Spawn (1161), Meeko (1161) 10: Alka Seltzer – Storyteller (1203), Spawn (1203) [del]11: peekercpa[/del] 12: Natlaw – Mahaloth (1263), Spawn (1263) [del]13: Zeriel[/del] 14: DiggitCamara – Storyteller (1186) 15: amrussell – Mahaloth (1172), Spawn (1173) 16: KellyCriterion – Spawn (1145), Mahaloth (1233) 17: Red Skeezix – Spawn (1146), [del]Natlaw[/del] (1222-1250) 18: sachertorte – [del]Storyteller[/del] (1179-1242), Spawn (1179) [del]19: fluiddruid[/del] 20: TexCat – Spawn (1155), Storyteller (1155) 21: Rysto – Diggit (1226), Spawn (1226) Not much change since the last count. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1268 "2010-02-17T21:57:40Z")
My good man. There will be a Freudian Original waiting for you at the start of winter, mark my words! ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1269 "2010-02-17T22:19:06Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Is it that you needed to see me put storyteller’s name in blue in order to not be tempted perceive my opening post as some sort of reverse-psychology defense of him? Because that is not what that post was, at all. No - I don’t mind you not voting for story as such. (I said earlier that I think we need a mix of early voters to get things moving, and later voters to weigh up the various cases). And I didn’t interpret your post as a reverse defense. Quite the opposite -what struck me as odd about your post is that you devoted by far the greater part of it to laying out the case against story and very little to explaining the doubts that made you hold back. While _in your mind_ those doubts presumably have enough weight to counter the 6 or 7 point case you laid out against story, anyone reading _what you wrote_ sees a lot of evidence on one side and nothing much on the other. So it could be interpreted as a way of keeping the pressure up on story - and encouraging others to vote for him - while keeping your hands clean. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1270 "2010-02-17T22:49:50Z")
> [@ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies](#): > > Can you be more specific? I made a post where I explained why/when I don’t tend to vote early, but I’ve also made a post wherein I dismissed that aspect of Kelly’s “but he votes early for Pondies! A whole 2 of them! And I’m one of them!!” case against you, and suggested that voting early was not going to be considered suspicious activity by many people. Do I make your list? No, you didn’t make my list. I was referencing NatLaw’s comments. Guys, I am not sure if I’m getting lysed, but it isn’t looking good. I think we really need to look at the people who are slipping little votes in and hoping not to be noticed. Now, I’ve been quieter toDay due to being really busy, but I try to get my votes out early and clearly. For better or worse, I think I’ve been at least actively stating my reasoning. The reason is has been so hard is that the scum have not, that I’ve seen, made any significant errors. Look at Kelly and Natlaw’s votes on me. They are really weird. Kelly just says he has no reason to change the vote for me. He is just sticking with it. Must I remind you it was simply an OMGUS vote originally? Natlaw’s vote is just slipped in there. I think NatLaw was hoping to not to draw much fire for that vote. I’m also not buying a lynch of storyteller. I’m just not seeing it. So, make what you will of it, but I don’t think the top vote getters right now are wise strategy moves(except Natlaw, who I just moved into being one of the top vote getters). ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1271 "2010-02-17T22:56:27Z")
I do have to agree with Mahaloth. Kelly’s vote today is weird. Natlaw’s vote looks “safe”, but so “safe” as to be unsafe. Does weird = scummy? No Idea. **@Freudian** : You spent alot of time yesterDay, discussing and contributing to the case against story. You voted for him yesterDay, yet you start today with assertions that you didn’t have a clue for today. What happened to yesterDay’s suspicions? ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2010, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1272 "2010-02-17T23:36:37Z")
> [@Natlaw](#): > > **KellyCriterion** , can expand on what you think is wrong with **Mahaloth** ’s voting strategy? You didn’t want to discuss it Summer Two but it was part of your reasoning Summer Two. I asked about it and since you’re voting again for the same reasons so more details would be nice. Refer to post #838 for the full line of reasoning, but here’s the juicy bit: > [@](#): > > But in this thread, for appearing to be driven to vote based more on whose playing style you most disagree with instead of who you suspect of being scum (which would be a lot more helpful to the town), I: > > vote Mahaloth ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1273 "2010-02-18T00:02:03Z")
I still don’t get it, Kelly. I have voted for whom I most believe to be scum. Why can’t you just review the comment from everyone and make a better justified vote? It’s a lazy vote, at best. ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1274 "2010-02-18T00:25:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by **KellyCriterion** > I know that Alka has probably been the most vocal of this quartet, but a review of his posts indicates that he often only arrives suited up for a battle after the village cavalry have already gone in and done most of the damage. > [@Alka\_Seltzer](#): > > This is baseless. I placed the 1st vote for Story on Day 1, the 2nd on Day 2 and the 3rd toDay. In my first post toDay I flagged up a point against Story, it should have been pretty obvious I was thinking about voting for him again. My criticism was poorly worded. Let me try again, and I’ll use your post up above where you analysed the **fluid** votes, aka, _worked your PR machine_, to show what I mean about you not wanting to get your hands dirty. > [@](#): > > Rysto places the first vote, his basic case seems to be that Fluid was trying to provoke peeker and Story, and create a distraction. He then picks at some points in Fluid’s WoWs on Story (#850 and #851). Obviously, I’m largely in agreement with Fluid here … I’m pretty null on Rysto’s case, I can see why he might think this way even if I don’t agree with his position In other words, “Hey Rysto, I’m totally cool with the fact you voted town, ok?” > [@](#): > > Drain Bead places a hunch vote on Fluid. This is a pretty poor vote, but Drain is almost certainly town In other words, “I didn’t like Drain’s vote, but DRAIN I THINK YOU’RE TOWN!! I’LL SAY IT AGAIN I THINK YOU’RE TOWNNNNNN!!! DON’T GET UPSET WITH ME OK?!” > [@](#): > > At this point, Meeko thinks that Story is probably town, and that if he isn’t he will be vigged. He is making an assumption about Story’s kill drawback.. I haven’t had the time to review Meeko’s play properly, but this is at least somewhat consistent with his later policy vote and unvote for Story, trying to get him to reveal what it is In other words “Here is some safe commentary on Meeko’s vote. Note the absence of anything that might upset Meeko”. > [@](#): > > Diggit places a vote on Fluid, based on the assumption that neither Story nor Sach are scum (I don’t see why he would make that assumption), and that it would be a good scum strategy. The strategy argument is somewhat flawed I can’t follow your reasoning on this one, but I note you once again favour some commentary over a real, genuine attack. So, what does **Alka Seltzer** look like when he’s actually “going hard”? This, apparently: > [@](#): > > OreDigger is concerned about a claimed power role being close to the vote lead as the deadline approaches. I don’t think this is a legitimate concern. Man, _what a beating!_ You still right to play, **OreDigger**?! Which brings me back to one other thing **Alka** said: > [@](#): > > In my first post toDay I flagged up a point against Story, it should have been pretty obvious I was thinking about voting for him again. Your first post toDay did include a “point against a **story** ”, but once again you can’t help yourself, you need to congratulate him in the same post. **Story** makes a point how bad lots of late votes are, to which you respond by saying: > [@](#): > > This. The late votes and bandwagons really hurt town. I have acknowledged you have no shortage of posts, but you are a master at using them to become everyone’s buddy. Unless you have a town role in this game and it’s to be “everyone’s favourite teddy bear” (or some likable pond equivalent, in which case I commend you for your play), then you need to start sticking the sword in a little harder. Or don’t, but I’m going to keep drawing attention as long as this continues. ---
**Author:** ![KellyCriterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b3f665/32.png) [@KellyCriterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KellyCriterion)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1275 "2010-02-18T00:28:48Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I still don’t get it, Kelly. I have voted for whom I most believe to be scum. Which is useless if you’re _appearing_ to be driven to vote based on other “reasoning”, which was clearly my criticism of you. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1276 "2010-02-18T01:22:50Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > Which is useless if you’re _appearing_ to be driven to vote based on other “reasoning”, which was clearly my criticism of you. Uh, neener, neener, neener? I have no idea what you are trying to get at. Just admit you are voting OMGUS. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1277 "2010-02-18T01:32:16Z")
Kelly sure seems to be talking a lot for Noob. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1278 "2010-02-18T01:46:38Z")
**Kelly** , there’s a damned good reason **Alka** , and everyone else, thinks I’m town. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1279 "2010-02-18T02:46:15Z")
Kelly’s last post was super-over-defensive. I’ve been kicking myself since I’d didn’t vote Freudian for the same in Colorless. You might be new to the game, but the combination of OMGUS, over-defensive play, and lack of a meaningful case from you for 3 days running. I may be in the minority with my opinion, but your play reads like an inexperienced attempt to make shit up. **vote KellyCriterion** ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2010, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1280 "2010-02-18T02:57:37Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > Kelly’s last post was super-over-defensive. I’ve been kicking myself since I’d didn’t vote Freudian for the same in Colorless. You might be new to the game, but the combination of OMGUS, over-defensive play, and lack of a meaningful case from you for 3 days running. I may be in the minority with my opinion, but your play reads like an inexperienced attempt to make shit up. Dammit. Has “playing like Freudian” become the new “You throw like a girl”? 😃 But yeah, I’m getting the same read. As for why I’m not hounding **storyteller** today…mainly I feel like I’m getting a stronger reading on **Kelly**. I’m not sure I like how **story** ’s playing but I can’t help thinking would he be attracting this much attention to himself if he were scum? The posting a lot and the defensiveness are, I think, characteristic of scum, esp. noob scum. You don’t want to die if you’re scum because you’re letting your team down and people will get more info from your deaths. Whereas if a townie dies, it’s less of a huge thing, and in some cases, post analyses after death can help, a LOT. A noob scum tends to get kind of upset at the idea of being killed off. You take it a lot more seriously. So yeah I can’t help taking a second glance at someone who really REALLY doesn’t want to die even though they haven’t really taken so many votes yet. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202.md?page=63) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202.md?page=65)