# Scum mafia: On Cecil pond \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 24, 2010, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202 "2010-01-24T05:10:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 70
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1381 "2010-02-22T16:56:00Z")
> [@amrussell](#): > > Scum want to kill town. Town want to kill scum. For town to \*\*deliberately \*\*kill town is self-destructive. > > \ > > It is more difficult to imagine a scenario where town deliberately killing town **advances their win condition**. **TexCat** ’s proposal was that we sacrifice one of the town in exchange for confirming another member. Even on its face, it’s not clear to me that this represents a net gain for town. To be fair, TexCat is not “Town” but “unknown.” Town killing unknowns can very much lead to a win. If we ever get to a point with a set of confirmed town versus a set of unconfirmed players, killing off the unconfirmed via Vig is a very good thing. Not knowing alignment is a bad thing, but I’m not sure how it affects the calculus when the offed player is ‘low-profile.’ In other words, if we lost alignment on a low-posting, low-controversy unconfirmed player, would that damage the town so badly? I’m thinking no. That said, I agree with storyteller not killing last night. I wouldn’t have minded if he killed TexCat (or USCDiver) mainly because their footprints seem the smallest, but without knowing who the masons are or who the detective might be, not killing is the proper play here. Once the detective claims, then storyteller would be in a better position to take out unknowns, both because he won’t hit the detective, and he won’t hit investigated players. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1382 "2010-02-22T17:01:19Z")
**I totally hate how this game is being played.** Frankly, the game is getting this close to being no fun for me. Something needs to give for me to continue. I hate that EVERYTHING we are building dissolves for one reason or another. I hate that we can not have marked progress, and that everything, _everything_ is so wishy-washy. The point is, I know things. And I don’t think there is any advantage to keeping it to myself anymore. I am sick and tired of doubling over, checking everything, to make sure I don’t slip on things, that frankly, a Town power role should not care about. **I am with Drain. We are Masons.** RedSkeezix is not with us. . \*\*Drain, What do you think about starting mass Claiming for the entire game? \*\* If we have other mason members, I ask that they wait until the game digests what I have done here. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1383 "2010-02-22T17:13:36Z")
> [@KellyCriterion](#): > > - What is a rotifier? > - I have been PM’d two player names over the course of this game, which has happened in relation to my role. Is it in the town’s interest that I reveal these names? I have no idea what the significance of the names are. > - Are the scum likely to night kill me now that I know I am a rotifier? (I felt this was a chance I could take, given that I feel I am the front-runner to be killed by the town this summer anyway). (1) More important than the type of organism you are, is the function you possess. I don’t think anyone else will have more data on that. (Unless, the names are the result of someone else’s targeting and you only receive the name if it is Town [or scum]. But I find that a bit too twisted to be feasible. If this is the case, then someone else might know more about your role and possibly why you only received two names). (2) I find it highly unlikely that KellyCriterion would be sent a names list that only contained scum. It it more probable that the names list consists of Town. A mix of the two would be pointless. (3) Yes. But you are also more likely to be protected by a pro-town role. No guarantees, but that is generally how things go. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1384 "2010-02-22T17:20:05Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > \*\*Drain, What do you think about starting mass Claiming for the entire game? \*\* I’m not drain, but I’m generally against Masons taking charge like this. My personal feeling is a mass claim should be Detective/Doctor driven. (1) We need to figure out if KellyCriterion is our “detective” (2) We would do well to keep the Doctor hidden. (3) If we mass claim Today, it should happen before KellyCriterion reveals his information. (In other words, Kelly should reveal his information before the Summer ends, but if we mass claim, revealing it after the claim but still before the end of Summer is best.) If a protective role pushes for a mass claim, then I will comply. Otherwise, I feel a mass claim unnecessarily puts a hidden doctor in a bad place. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1385 "2010-02-22T18:01:22Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > RedSkeezix is not with us. Just so we’re clear, I did already say this, in a response to Alka. > [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > I have no information relating to any of the claims which have been made so far, other than what has been posted during the day threads. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1386 "2010-02-22T18:11:58Z")
> [@Red\_Skeezix](#): > > Just so we’re clear, I did already say this, in a response to Alka. Then it would seem our facts are in agreement with each other, not in opposition. My statement was Skeezix is not Mason _ **NOT** _ Skeezix is not Town. However, the fact that you are not Mason, does not in itself confirm that you are town. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1387 "2010-02-22T18:13:21Z")
**Kelly** , in response to “Is scum likely to…” I don’t know. But in general investigative roles are things that scum wants to get rid of, so I wouldn’t be surprised if you did bite the big one tonight. Here’s hoping we have a doctor. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1388 "2010-02-22T18:21:45Z")
\*\*If we find that Kelly is a Pro-Pond Detective role, I ask that the doctor protect him over me. \*\* As I said, I am not enjoying this game. I will of course, still play, but again, if we have a better power role to protect over a Mason, I don’t want to stand in the way. ---
**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1389 "2010-02-22T18:33:05Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > I am with Drain. We are Masons. Poor, poor **special ed**. I think our Pond is pretty polluted - Scum, Spawn and town freaking out all over the place. But seriously, **Meeko** unless **Kelly** is an alignment cop (which he doesn’t seem to be) a confirmed town (like a mason) is more valuable. Not that a doctor can’t WiFoM of course. ---
**Author:** ![Natlaw](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a88e57/32.png) [@Natlaw](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Natlaw)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1390 "2010-02-22T18:36:34Z")
Forgot to add: but if you are the last two Masons alive then it’s better with you both confirming each other. We’re aren’t at lynch or lose yet I think, so I agree that if a protective role doesn’t want to out himself yet a mass claim can wait a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1391 "2010-02-22T18:37:34Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Then it would seem our facts are in agreement with each other, not in opposition. > > My statement was Skeezix is not Mason _ **NOT** _ Skeezix is not Town. I agree that our facts are in agreement. I was just clarifying my position on the matter. Especially since Cookies asked again yesterday, I thought it might not have been clear. ---
**Author:** ![Red\_Skeezix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@Red\_Skeezix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Red_Skeezix)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1392 "2010-02-22T18:43:36Z")
And as far as mass claiming goes, it’s a little early for that. If there is an alignment cop out there, and they can report 3 (maybe 2, but no less than that) town and alive players, that would be a claim to consider making. Also, this is not an all power game. I think it is likely that most if not all scum will claim plankton, so we will have effectively outed all the town powers, without the preponderance of counter-claims and silly roles that come in an all-power game. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1393 "2010-02-22T19:15:40Z")
Ok, so we are 2 days into the Day and we have two power roles already claiming this is going to be a weird Day. Meeko, I’m not sure why you claimed or what benefit you think you are giving yourself besides not having to hid that you are a Mason but seriously WTF? Kelly I don’t understand your claim, you get PMed a name almost every Day? I thought Story was claiming a weird power but jeeze, it almost sounds like scum took Story’s role and tried to pervert it. I wasn’t that suspicious of you before but now I’m putting your claim way ahead of Story’s on the suspicious list. I can’t think of a way to test this claim without more information but I’m against confirming by lynch. What does you’re role tell you about these names there has to be more information in there. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1394 "2010-02-22T21:49:24Z")
> [@Oredigger77](#): > > Meeko, I’m not sure why you claimed or what benefit you think you are giving yourself besides not having to hid that you are a Mason but seriously WTF? In short, a bit of sanity, for me comes from claiming. To say nothing of the fact that I was growing tired of the the box the game has put all of us in. There are more “moves” more “plays” for me now, that I have claimed, over just doing the same stuff day in, day out. I am tired of having to check and recheck my posts, making sure that I don’t slip on something. I don’t need _this_ frustration anymore, in a game that is already frustrating. \*\* I saw a game that was, is, and remains headed towards a Scum flawless victory. The game needs information that helps pond. I need to stop wasting time and worrying about what I can, and can not, or rather should not, post. I felt like my claim did both.\*\* All of that being said let me ask two questions now: 1. My god, how do you guys not skim all the crap that is in a Mafia game? \*\*Yes. I have been skimming. \*\*Who wants to read a 4th day of Doube lyse or not arguments? If you tell me you never skim, I will show you a liar. 2. Revisiting: I wonder how many Scum this game started with. I know this would actually help lynches, because the odds will be better to lynching scum, but given the overall run of this game, I just feel that Scum are playing too well of a game to have a “Standard” number. **If we can vote twice, wouldn’t that make a game that can support twice the number of scum?** And I highly doubt I could have asked either question, without claiming. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1395 "2010-02-22T21:58:35Z")
KellyCriterion: The decision to reveal information has to be your own. The information you have will help you make this decision. For example, if the two names you have are already dead, then your information is not of great help to us. If the two names you have are still alive, then there is a bit more we have to work with. Furthermore, who those names are should affect your calculus. If it is someone we are about to lynch, you may be more inclined to speak up (or not if you suspect your list is a list of scum). Whatever the case, you have to look at the information and decide what to do with it to the best of your ability. As a side note, and only because you claim newness, ‘town’ investigation results are very powerful. In some situations, they are even better than ‘scum’ investigation results. Of course, your situation is even more opaque, but I just wanted you to know that even a list of “town” people is of good help. As for your fate. You need to also weigh the value of your information versus the chance you will die during Winter. If you die before revealing the information, the information is lost. However, if you keep the information secret for longer (and manage to survive) then a later reveal is more powerful (Since scum don’t know your information, they can’t act optimally based on it). But that has the risk of your dying and taking all the information to the grave with you. Right now, there is presumably a town protective role, so you might survive to Tomorrow, but we can’t be certain. You have to weigh the risks with the benefits. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1396 "2010-02-22T22:06:07Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > I just feel that Scum are playing too well of a game to have a “Standard” number. **If we can vote twice, wouldn’t that make a game that can support twice the number of scum?** Actually, its harder to find scum when there are less of them. Imagine a game with just one scum to begin with. Probability says you are not likely to find that scum in the first three days. Anyway, the idea that because we can vote twice, that there are double the number of scum is ridiculous. There is no logical reason to think so. Furthermore, a game with double the number of scum pointless and would be over now. Games are balanced to allow a similar number of lynches/mislynches necessary to win the game for either side. With 21 to start, I suspect that the game started with 5 scum (with 0 vs 3 on the lynch vs mislynch count). ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1397 "2010-02-22T22:16:13Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Games are balanced to allow a similar number of lynches/mislynches necessary to win the game for either side. With 21 to start, I suspect that the game started with 5 scum (with 0 vs 3 on the lynch vs mislynch count). I don’t know how a game can be balanced with a Pond Vig that affords no death reveal on his vig, an apparent Detective that doesn’t get to chose (Or indeed, “Retract”,) how to use his power. \*\*I believe that ALL Pond power roles are broken [Handicapped] in this game, and no allowance was made for that fact in regards to Scum. \*\* Once I am confirmed as being a Mason, I will reveal our handicap, if there is no objection. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1398 "2010-02-22T22:17:55Z")
**Meeko** , maybe you should step back, take a deep breath, etc.? No, we haven’t found scum yet, but I don’t think that’s all that uncommon, and I’m not sure the game is necessarily being played so horribly. The fact that we seem to have some confirmed town works in our favor, IMO. When it comes to claims, **Drain Bead** is to be believed because someone would have counter claimed if she were not who she said. Same goes for you, and I’m sure **Drain** will confirm you soon enough. I’m leaning towards believing **Kelly** because I don’t think that’s the kind of thing that a noob would make up, myself. Still not sure on **story** , though. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1399 "2010-02-22T22:24:38Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > I’m leaning towards believing **Kelly** because I don’t think that’s the kind of thing that a noob would make up, myself. Still not sure on **story** , though. Agreed. I wonder how an average person would come across “Rotifer”. An Amoeba seems to be on the same spectrum there, but, I believe Rotifer at Town more than Amoeba. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2010, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1400 "2010-02-22T22:28:18Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > Agreed. I wonder how an average person would come across “Rotifer”. > > An Amoeba seems to be on the same spectrum there, but, I believe Rotifer at Town more than Amoeba. Well, I could sort of see someone coming up with amoeba. Most people have a vague idea of what an amoeba is, plus as for the details of the role, **story** is fairly experienced, so that wouldn’t faze me. Like you, I’m more inclined to believe in the rotifier/Kelly than story and the amoeba role. Though I’m not entirely sure that **story** is lying either. Also, just realized I’m still voting for Kelly. I will **unvote Kelly** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202.md?page=69) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202.md?page=71)