# Scum mafia: On Cecil pond \[Game Over\] **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 24, 2010, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202 "2010-01-24T05:10:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 89
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1761 "2010-03-08T01:28:26Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > I really don’t think that you guys are thinking this through. Consider this: if I had voted for Mahaloth over Kelly, would you be voting for me toDay? Probably not. But you did vote for **Kelly** over **Mahaloth** when all other known Scum had already voted for **Mahaloth**. And no-one who did vote for **Kelly** on that Day turned out to be scum. I’m unwilling to believe that on that Day not a single scum saw the opportunity to validate himself in the eyes of town and vote in a close contest for scum. **Vote Rysto Vote spawn** ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1762 "2010-03-08T01:58:28Z")
> [@DiggitCamara](#): > > Probably not. And that doesn’t give you pause at all? Seriously? You’re all voting for me because I voted scum? And it doesn’t strike you for a moment that that’s totally backwards? ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1763 "2010-03-08T04:57:00Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > And that doesn’t give you pause at all? Seriously? You’re all voting for me because I voted scum? And it doesn’t strike you for a moment that that’s totally backwards? Dude: If you’re town, you had no way to know it really was scum. However, if you’re scum you _knew_ she was scum. Collectively, I doubt all scum decided to avoid voting for her during that Day. (Especially if, as I suspect, scum aren’t allowed to talk during the Day). ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1764 "2010-03-08T14:09:55Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > You flat out ping me. Period. Meh. I don’t really care that I ‘ping’ you. Quite frankly, pinging you is probably a good thing. > [@Meeko](#): > > Sach just pings me on the language used to chew Drain out. I reject your assertion. Furthermore, on the list of masons that deserve chewing out, Drain is not at the top. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1765 "2010-03-08T14:12:06Z")
DiggitCamara responds to Rysto: > [@DiggitCamara](#): > > But you did vote for **Kelly** over **Mahaloth** when all other known Scum had already voted for **Mahaloth**. And no-one who did vote for **Kelly** on that Day turned out to be scum. Wait. What?! I’m assuming that you are referring to The Day 3 vote. If I recall correctly, The final votes went like this: Mahaloth leads KC by one. Rysto votes KC -\> tie Cookies votes KC -\> KC leads by one Alka Seltzer votes Mahaloth -\> tie storyteller votes Mahaloth -\> Mahaloth leads by one Why are you saying that Rysto voted for KC "when all other known scum had already voted for Mahaloth? Something is not right here. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1766 "2010-03-08T14:42:41Z")
> [@Natlaw](#): > > Looks like I might be wrong about **Oredigger** - still like a response to my last observation: you earlier had a suspicion of **sachertorte** , who also voted **Mahaloth** It wasn’t simply voting for Mahaloth that I objected to other wise there would be a much longer list of people to be suspicious of. What I didn’t like about Alka in addition to the earlier stuff which had already earned him an FOS was the timing of the vote. It was the same reason that people are now suspicious of Rysot, which I’ll get to in a bit. It looked like a saving action. Voting for town will happen but when someone comes in with a late vote to change the leader board it needs to be looked at closely. I was already suspicious of Alka so the late vote made me think that he was either trying to create some WIFOM is Kelly turned out to be town or was trying to save a scum buddy. Unfortunately, I did the same thing that I accused FS of doing earlier in the game which is becoming focused on one player to the exclusion of looking at others so now that Alka is gone I’m without a hunch. Thinking back I think that Sach’s earlier statement still seems weird but his pursuit of Story has me leaning town. I do think Rysto’s actions were pretty similar to Alka but I need to do a reread there. My main plan for the Day was to look at some of the people flying below the radar we’ve got a pretty good group of people who haven’t really contributed and I think that at this point in the game it is more likely that some of the scum have been laying low in that group. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1767 "2010-03-08T15:24:55Z")
> [@DiggitCamara](#): > > Dude: If you’re town, you had no way to know it really was scum. I never said that I did know. However, you are arguing that doing a pro-Town action is scummy. Full stop. You really don’t think that’s an absurd argument? Really? ---
**Author:** ![USCDiver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uscdiver/32/354_2.png) [@USCDiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/USCDiver)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1768 "2010-03-08T15:54:41Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > I never said that I did know. However, you are arguing that doing a pro-Town action is scummy. Full stop. You really don’t think that’s an absurd argument? Really? The problem with that defense is that your vote is not unambiguously pro-Town. There is a possible Pro-Scum motivation as well. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1769 "2010-03-08T16:02:46Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > DiggitCamara responds to Rysto: > > Wait. What?! > I’m assuming that you are referring to The Day 3 vote. If I recall correctly, The final votes went like this: > Mahaloth leads KC by one. > Rysto votes KC -\> tie > Cookies votes KC -\> KC leads by one > Alka Seltzer votes Mahaloth -\> tie > storyteller votes Mahaloth -\> Mahaloth leads by one > > Why are you saying that Rysto voted for KC "when all other known scum had already voted for Mahaloth? > Something is not right here. Actually, I was just looking at the summary of the voting on Day’s 3 and 4, not at the relative time where the votes where posted. In other words: at the end of Day 3 all known Scum had voted for **Mahaloth** and no known scum had voted for **Kelly**. I _still_ find it unlikely that no scum would have voted for **Kelly** during that Day. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1770 "2010-03-08T16:03:52Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > The problem with that defense is that your vote is not unambiguously pro-Town. There is a possible Pro-Scum motivation as well. That’s exactly the point I’m trying to make. ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1771 "2010-03-08T16:08:35Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > The problem with that defense is that your vote is not unambiguously pro-Town. There is a possible Pro-Scum motivation as well. Yeah, I see that. That makes it a null tell. You want to lynch someone on a null tell? ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1772 "2010-03-08T16:10:54Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Meh. I don’t really care that I ‘ping’ you. Quite frankly, pinging you is probably a good thing. > I reject your assertion. Furthermore, on the list of masons that deserve chewing out, Drain is not at the top. \*\*This is what I was talking about over on the Smash game. Town does not play as town. There is no hope for any town when that is the case. \*\* There is no way I can see you as “town” now. Your role could align you as town, but you are so anti-town right now, that it is not even funny. You are given a chance to take something back, re-clarify, or otherwise disengage. You re-entrench. Chronos could Mod confirm you right now, and I would still not unvote you. I don’t know what you were trying to get from all of this, but I think you got it. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1773 "2010-03-08T16:45:33Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > \*\*This is what I was talking about over on the Smash game. Town does not play as town. There is no hope for any town when that is the case. \*\* > There is no way I can see you as “town” now. Your role could align you as town, but you are so anti-town right now, that it is not even funny. You are given a chance to take something back, re-clarify, or otherwise disengage. > > You re-entrench. > > Chronos could Mod confirm you right now, and I would still not unvote you. > > I don’t know what you were trying to get from all of this, but I think you got it. Does anyone else read this post and see a total contradiction? **Meeko** , as your Mason friend, allow me to tell you that if someone is mod-confirmed, it’s anti-Town to continue to vote them. Probably more anti-Town than **sachertorte** has been playing, which I admit is a lot. It’s kinda funny that you call someone anti-Town and then suggest that you’d deal with it in an even more anti-Town manner. Play like this is why people tend to think you’re batty. 😉 Just a suggestion from your friendly-neighborhood Mason buddy who is trying to help you be a better player. ---
**Author:** ![Meeko](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Meeko](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meeko)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1774 "2010-03-08T17:05:47Z")
> [@Drain\_Bead](#): > > It’s kinda funny that you call someone anti-Town and then suggest that you’d deal with it in an even more anti-Town manner. It is frankly where I am with Sach’s entire attitude. I thought you were with me, at least part of the way. You were like “What is the the town motivation to say that”. I’m further along that path. ---
**Author:** ![TexCat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/texcat/32/9041_2.png) [@TexCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TexCat)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1775 "2010-03-08T17:19:00Z")
I am still feeling a bit lost in this game. I was focused on storyteller, and I am still having trouble believing that he was, in fact, a vig with a drawback. I need to do another re-read – which I hope to do today. I am not really sure that I understand the Rysto votes. We think that there had to have been a scum vote on Kelly day 3? And we picked Rysto out of the voters to be the scum? Has anyone considered whether the scum can talk to each other? Since our masons cannot talk privately, is it possible that the scum cannot talk privately? I am still wondering about Kelly’s claim. It seems like one of the scum would have caught the problem with it, if they had discussed it at all. ---
**Author:** ![Drain\_Bead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e47774/32.png) [@Drain\_Bead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drain_Bead)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1776 "2010-03-08T18:16:48Z")
> [@TexCat](#): > > I am not really sure that I understand the Rysto votes. We think that there had to have been a scum vote on Kelly day 3? And we picked Rysto out of the voters to be the scum? Not exactly picked **Rysto**. He’s the only Day 3 **Kelly** voter whose identity we don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1777 "2010-03-08T18:29:12Z")
> [@Meeko](#): > > \*\*This is what I was talking about over on the Smash game. Town does not play as town. There is no hope for any town when that is the case. \*\* > There is no way I can see you as “town” now. Your role could align you as town, but you are so anti-town right now, that it is not even funny. You are given a chance to take something back, re-clarify, or otherwise disengage. > > You re-entrench. > > Chronos could Mod confirm you right now, and I would still not unvote you. > > I don’t know what you were trying to get from all of this, but I think you got it. What on earth are you talking about? I’m saying that pinging you is a good thing, not because I’m keen on annoying you, but that you are acting so irrationally, that my pinging you makes me feel that I’ve done a good job in stating my position as clearly and unambiguously as possible. Have I been wrong? You betcha ;). Guess what? That happens. But I’ve been upfront in what my thoughts are. I have not been hiding them. And so I ping you. Which, as I stated before, seems to be a good thing, because I’ve actually, you know, stated stuff. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1778 "2010-03-08T18:34:12Z")
> [@DiggitCamara](#): > > Actually, I was just looking at the summary of the voting on Day’s 3 and 4, not at the relative time where the votes where posted. > > In other words: at the end of Day 3 all known Scum had voted for **Mahaloth** and no known scum had voted for **Kelly**. I _still_ find it unlikely that no scum would have voted for **Kelly** during that Day. I’m still trying to piece this together. You said: “when all other known scum had already voted for Mahaloth?” I take that to mean, at the time that Rysto voted, all other known scum had already voted for Mahaloth, which is not true. Now you say you mean something along the lines of ‘eventually all other known scum will have voted for Mahaloth’ Do you see a strong difference between these two? Do you feel that timing is unimportant? And it seems Diggit’s take has shifted even more as he states that his suspicion on Rysto rests on “unlikely that no scum would have voted for **Kelly** during that Day” which of course has nothing to do with vote timing. I’m skeptical. But open to DiggitCamara clarifying what is going on in his head. ---
**Author:** ![DiggitCamara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@DiggitCamara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiggitCamara)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1779 "2010-03-08T20:14:51Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I’m still trying to piece this together. > > You said: > “when all other known scum had already voted for Mahaloth?” > > I take that to mean, at the time that Rysto voted, all other known scum had already voted for Mahaloth, which is not true. > > Now you say you mean something along the lines of ‘eventually all other known scum will have voted for Mahaloth’ Do you see a strong difference between these two? Do you feel that timing is unimportant? > > And it seems Diggit’s take has shifted even more as he states that his suspicion on Rysto rests on “unlikely that no scum would have voted for **Kelly** during that Day” which of course has nothing to do with vote timing. > > I’m skeptical. But open to DiggitCamara clarifying what is going on in his head. Sorry, sach, but what part of > [@DiggitCamara](#): > > Actually, I was just looking at the summary of the voting on Day’s 3 and 4, not at the relative time where the votes where posted. is unclear to you? My take hasn’t shifted: I stated that I didn’t take the timing into account when I first made my point. I have subsequently looked at the timing of **Rysto** ’s vote (your post sums it up rather well). If we assume **Rysto** ’s scum, it could look like this from his perspective: 1. \*\*Rysto \*\* votes for **Kelly** , knowing that Alka (and maybe other scum) can break the tie in **Kelly** ’s favor 2. **Cookie** ’s vote shifts the balance in favor of **Kelly** ’s lysing 3. \*\*Alka \*\* panics and votes for **Mahaloth** to tie the vote 4. **story** “saves” the Day A scummy **Rysto** would have voted in this scenario to establish a townie reputation. Classic WIFOM, of course, but that’s my interpretation. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202/1780 "2010-03-08T20:42:26Z")
I’m confused because while you say you weren’t taking timing into account, your statement says otherwise: > [@DiggitCamara](#): > > Probably not. > > But you did vote for **Kelly** over **Mahaloth** when all other known Scum had already voted for **Mahaloth**. And no-one who did vote for **Kelly** on that Day turned out to be scum. > > I’m unwilling to believe that on that Day not a single scum saw the opportunity to validate himself in the eyes of town and vote in a close contest for scum. The important word here is “already”. If you had said: ‘But you did vote for **Kelly** over **Mahaloth** when all other known Scum voted for **Mahaloth**.’ I can see the lack of temporal reference here. But that isn’t what you said. You said: “But you did vote for **Kelly** over **Mahaloth** when all other known Scum had already voted for **Mahaloth**.” had already voted – which means at the time of Rysto’s vote other known scum had already voted. Which isn’t true, so I’m trying to make sense of it. I realize you are trying to explain away the temporal anomaly, but it is still there, staring me in the face. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202.md?page=88) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/scum-mafia-on-cecil-pond-game-over/526202.md?page=90)