# SDMB Assholes aka mass ignorance on the SDMB **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 17, 2003, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-assholes-aka-mass-ignorance-on-the-sdmb/161970 "2003-03-17T11:44:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2003, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-assholes-aka-mass-ignorance-on-the-sdmb/161970/41 "2003-03-19T06:18:36Z")
I havent followed up on the thread in question, and because it was already four pages long when I got there, I decided against writing a post to condemn what I saw on the first page. KP\_72110 may have been a little over the top, but I certainly agree with his/her sentiments. We don’t know what its like to be kidnapped, and we don’t know what Elizabeth or Mr. Smart is really like; how dare we jump upon small little “inconsistencies” in what we expect in their behavior and criticize? From what Diane has posted, it appears that Elizabeth suffered a horrific ordeal, and I think those that immediately piped up with their smart-assed intuitions about this whole “vibe” should be ashamed. What if someone threatened to kill you and held you captive for nine months and you returned home only to find people calling your dad a freak, your sister a moron/coward, and yourself… whatever people were saying in that thread. We need to understand that stress can create bizarre behavior, bizarre as in bizarre, not bizarre the way you want or expect it to be. The same thing after Jon Benet Ramsey, and other famous murder, etc. It’s disgusting. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-assholes-aka-mass-ignorance-on-the-sdmb/161970/42 "2003-03-20T08:27:46Z")
Okay, wearywitch, your last asinine comment requires an answer in the Pit. Luckily there’s already a thread here provided for exactly what you were saying. Let’s go in reverse order, shall we? > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Evil Captor_ > A Mormon turned me into a newt! > > But I’m feeling much better now … A newt??? Damn! I’m hoping to be turned into a Salamander, myself!.. unfortunately, as a native Arizonan (twicefold), I’m probaby limeted to "desert dweller’ choices… [/quote] You probably think you’re being cute referring to the critter in the infamous forgery. Problem is that has exactly nothing to do with the bigoted comments you’ve made in the GD thread. They do, however, show more of your prejudice against the LDS. Before that, you made this comment: > [@](#): > > Okay, I’m going to respond to this… my waiver: I’m not here to recruit any one to any religion, but the the discussion has changed and maybe one would post a new discussion re: “Religious beliefs as they pertain to Elizabeth Smart”. I’m feeling pretty confident that Monty will set us straight should we go astray. Not only I, you jerk, but quite a number of others, some of whom aren’t even LDS have attempted to set you straight already. But your prejudice is in the way of realizing that. This I know from your previous statement: [/quote] No, I made statements (of opinion, I AM allowed to do that, right MONTY?) about the “One True Church” that offended members of the “One True Church” and folks that have not been subjected to the “One True Church” and that pissed you off. Thats all. Have a nice day - see ya when I have time for more of Monty’s superfluous and self-righteous diatribe. There’s a war - silly me, seems to have attracted my attention. Blessed Be. And BTW, I STILL STAND BY EVERY STATEMENT I HAVE MADE (and again) REGARDLESS OF HOW YOU CHOOSE TO PERCIEVE IT. [/quote] Let’s talk about that one for a second. > [@](#): > > No, I made statements (of opinion, I AM allowed to do that, right MONTY?) Yes, you are. Be so kind as to carry your unfounded and bigoted opinion over to IMHO, then. In GD, one is expected to provide support for their statements. > [@](#): > > about the “One True Church” that offended members of the “One True Church” and folks that have not been subjected to the “One True Church” and that pissed you off. What offends me is you asserted your prejudices as fact. I pointed out that your comments are bigoted. > [@](#): > > Thats all. Right bac atcha, liar. > [@](#): > > Have a nice day - see ya when I have time for more of Monty’s superfluous and self-righteous diatribe. No diatribe from me, liar. > [@](#): > > There’s a war - silly me, seems to have attracted my attention. Oh, btw, I’m kind of interested in what’s going on in the matter of our country and military action since I’m retired from the Navy and thus am subject to recall to active duty. > [@](#): > > Blessed Be. > > And BTW, I STILL STAND BY EVERY STATEMENT I HAVE MADE (and again) REGARDLESS OF HOW YOU CHOOSE TO PERCIEVE IT. I perceived it as you evidently intended it. It’s your problem that you don’t know what truth is. The truth is you made bigoted comments in GD and I called you on them. > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > quoteOriginally posted by Monty > > It’s my very correct reading of what you actually said is what it is, weary. > > > > Who am I? Why, I’m one of those LDS; you know, the folks you’ve accused of being the epitome of religious freaks/fanatics. Now let’s see you backpedal out of that comment. > > I won’t be backpedalling out of anything. I still stand by everything I’ve said… regardless of how you choose to perceive it. There you state that you stand by your earlier comment that we LDS are religious freaks/fanatics. And you wonder why I’m “perceiving” it as you asserting that we LDS are religious freaks/fanatics? Earlier in the thread you made this stunningly asinine post: > [@](#): > > … okay, and this 15 year old girl knew this? I will reiterate: This “nutjob” that broke into her home and was stealing her away, was an adult. Who knows what he told her, and who knows what he knows about the religious faith she follows? IT IS possible that he knows enough to seduce her from her home - to keep her from fleeing by using “God” and the “Church” to keep her in his clutches. If her faith in her church is strong (and I believe it is), he could have used this to “hold” her. THAT’S ALL I WAS SAYING. > > I’d be interested to know why what I stated has you so PISSED OFF? I’m DEFENDING HER, NOT EMMANUEL. So you admit you also don’t have any idea at all what the jackass who kidnapped her said. But you still “stand by” your comments condemning the girl’s religion because you think the LDS faith is toxic. Of course, you don’t have any proof of that, so your assertion is the only thing holding your assertion up. Got news for you, jerk, debates don’t work that way. Your next prior posting now comes under scrutiny: > [@](#): > > No, Shodan, I do not have “knowledge” of what occurs during sacred rituals. My point is/was: I have asked my LDS friends, because I was curious and they do not yet know. They are quite open to sharing their faith / belief system, especially if asked. Further - what did I say, exactly, to make you so sure that I am a complete outsider? A non-mormon yes. > > I think you and “Monty” read way too much into my post, and misunderstood the “point”. I will work on my writing and grammarical skills and try to make it more clear for you. > Evidently “simple” is better. > > Let me clear up one other point made while I’m here. “Religious Freak” - okay let’s say “Religious Fanatic”, or “Fanatically Religious”. Was it the word “freak” that offended? Maybe these terms will make it feel better. What offends people is the falshoods you related, said falsehoods a non-LDS poster called you on, and your assertion that we LDS are religious freaks/fanatics. Not even you can be so stupid as to not realize those are perjorative words there. Well, maybe you are. In two postings, TWO postings, you showed that maybe you do have some sense: > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally posted by Logical Phallacy > > the real reason she didn’t flee: kidnapper was good in bed. > > What a stupid, irresponsible thing to say. You’ve been flagged. We’re talking about a child, remember? & > [@](#): > > Well, all I can say is, “thank the Gods that something horrific happened to a 14 year old girl so we can sit around and condemn her, her family and her religion; thank the Gods that we can find some character flaw in her to justify (without actually saying that we are doing it) what happened to her, and pick the whoe damned thing apart as though we know, even slightly, what is going on”. > > NOT! > > This whole thing has taken a very wrong turn. > > Remember who we’re talking about. This isn’t a “reality t.v.series” - it’s the life of a litle girl - it ACTUALLY happened! > > She may some day find these posts… > > Tread lightly. Too bad, though, you don’t realize your other comments are stupid and irresponsible. Here’s yet another one of your comments: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Velma_ > An Arky, comparing Elizabeth’s Mormon parents to a man who calls himself Emmanuel and thinks he is God, and held a 15 year old girl captive for 9 months is just…wrong. Mormons are hardly “religious freaks.” mmmmm… yeah, they are - they are the epitome there of. sorry. [/quote] That’s one of those comments you’re standing by, isn’t it? & you don’t realize that it’s offensive to every member of that church, not just me? This comment I addressed already in the GD thread: > [@](#): > > Hi. I live in a community in Arizona, primarily Mormon (LDS). I have many acquaintences who are LDS, as a result. I have inquired about their religion, and have found more often, than not, that there are “sacred rituals”, and “sacred (you fill in the blank)” that even the most devout Mormon follower knows nothing about (because they have not yet achieved the “enlightenment” to know of this ritual". Is it not possible that Emmanuel told Elizabeth that he was instrumental in some capacity in her “ritual experience”? She comes from a devout family. Maybe she was told she was leaving with him to partake in a “spiritual initiation” - and from there she was putty in his hands. She may have felt she was doing the “right thing” for her family and church if he held the “key words” to entice her. Just a thought. As to mangeorge’s last comment in the GD thread: > [@](#): > > My sample is a small group, Monty. I can’t take the time or trouble to deeply research every belief system I come into contact with. I have to go by what I see and what I’m told. So do most people. > The misconceptions, some of fostered by the church itself, are not that great. Simple explanation usually clears things right up. > I’ll give you an easy one; > Latter Day Saints. Do you have any idea how strange that sounds to many people? That fact doesn’t make us evil or contemptable. > Mormons are (were) secretive. No, what makes you contemptible is that you’re using approximately a half-dozen people as your sample to condemn a church of over eleven million members. It’s quite easy to get a larger sample. What you saw is a very small group and you could easily go look at a larger group to draw a valid inference of what the LDS believe. It’s not like we’re hiding anywhere–go look in the phone book for the address of the local ward. Go watch the people there and see if the majority of them are fucking around on their spouses. It doesn’t matter how strange the sound of our church name sounds to people. That’s got exactly zero to do with the teachings or the behaviour of the vast majority of the membership. Heck, doesn’t the basic premise of all Christianity sound strange, that someone died and then got up three days later? Good grief, you two! Why don’t you just come out and say, “I hate the LDS so I’m going to make some damn asinine comments about it and, since they’re hateful comments you really should believe them!”? Well, wearybitch almost said that in her last posting. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-assholes-aka-mass-ignorance-on-the-sdmb/161970/43 "2003-03-20T08:31:34Z")
Any Mod/Admin who wanders by: May I have an assist on the coding in that posting above, please? ---
**Author:** ![Schwanzong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Schwanzong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Schwanzong)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-assholes-aka-mass-ignorance-on-the-sdmb/161970/44 "2003-03-20T08:34:45Z")
Been in the wars, have we? Having fun in the pit, is it? Jaysus, **Monty** , you should get out more ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-assholes-aka-mass-ignorance-on-the-sdmb/161970/45 "2003-03-20T08:55:16Z")
Have you a point, Schwanzong, or you the one who hasn’t gotten out much? ---
**Author:** ![Skid\_Row](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/779978/32.png) [@Skid\_Row](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skid_Row)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-assholes-aka-mass-ignorance-on-the-sdmb/161970/46 "2003-03-20T10:30:07Z")
How anyone could even **possibly** blame the victim is beyond me. She in no way contributed to her own situation (although I can’t "_prove_ that, Diane.) BTW, don’t screw with the LDS. They stick together like overcooked grits. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-assholes-aka-mass-ignorance-on-the-sdmb/161970/47 "2003-03-20T13:20:20Z")
Skid Row: Can you open your mouth without saying something stupid? There was no reason whatsoever for your comment to Diane there or about the LDS. OTOH, you are right that how someone could blame the victim is beyond understanding. ---
**Author:** ![Diane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2acd7d/32.png) [@Diane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diane)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-assholes-aka-mass-ignorance-on-the-sdmb/161970/48 "2003-03-20T14:01:17Z")
Yo Skid Mark, I see you metioned my name (you missing me Sugar?) then made some stupid comment about the Mormons sticking together like overcooked grits. Maybe I am assuming incorrectly as a result of your most hurtful “fry cook” digs that I still have not recovered from :rolleyes: but in case you missed it the other 5 thousands times I wrote it. I. AM. **NOT**. LDS! Other than that, your flame burned like a thousand suns. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-assholes-aka-mass-ignorance-on-the-sdmb/161970/49 "2003-03-20T14:38:12Z")
Diane: You forgot to add: > [@](#): > > …in a galaxy far, far away. ---
**Author:** ![furlibusea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@furlibusea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furlibusea)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-assholes-aka-mass-ignorance-on-the-sdmb/161970/50 "2003-03-20T17:15:11Z")
I think people blame the victim because they are scared. If the Smarts were not somehow to blame then some nutjob can enter any of our lives and there is no way to protect ourselves or our loved ones. Surely there must be some way that the Smarts could have done something different or better that we can point to to say “see I am not doing that so my family will be ok.” In a way I wish there was a way to blame them. That way it realy would be possible to keep my daughter safe from everything or everyone that can hurt her. I am in no way suggesting this is the way people should think, but sometimes I think it is worthwile having empathy for people that are wrong too. ---
**Author:** ![Skid\_Row](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/779978/32.png) [@Skid\_Row](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skid_Row)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-assholes-aka-mass-ignorance-on-the-sdmb/161970/51 "2003-03-20T18:11:54Z")
If people (however subconsciously) blame a victim it is a way they can protect themelves. In other words, the victim did X, Y & Z wrong but I wouldn’t do that so I’m safe. Nothing protects you from the **real** boogey-man. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2003, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-assholes-aka-mass-ignorance-on-the-sdmb/161970/52 "2003-03-20T18:12:05Z")
You might be right about why they think in that erroneous way, furli, but there’s no way on God’s green Earth I’m going to have an iota of empathy for someone who holds a view that a 14 year old girl is in any way to blame for what happened to her in this case. ---
**Author:** ![furlibusea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@furlibusea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furlibusea)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-assholes-aka-mass-ignorance-on-the-sdmb/161970/53 "2003-03-21T13:54:21Z")
People are afraid. You can attack how they deal with that fear all you want but unless you talk about the fear then they will cling to the coping mechanisms even more. I have empathy for the fear. I want desperatly for a way to believe I can make this a safe world for my daughter. I despise what they are doing to this girl and her family. I am not at all religious but this is an instance for me of love the sinner hate the sin. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-assholes-aka-mass-ignorance-on-the-sdmb/161970/54 "2003-03-21T14:22:32Z")
So, furli, when the way they deal with that fear is to attack a church of over eleven million members, all eleven million of us should just say, “How interesting; you may be right; it’s our faith that got that poor girl raped.”? Maybe it was her faith that helped her survive. But the bigots out there aren’t about to say that; they’d much rather continue to condemn the whole lot of a group they’ve already condemned than feel anything approaching a decent compassion for the victim of the actual criminals. Think about that for a moment, please. ---
**Author:** ![furlibusea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@furlibusea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furlibusea)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-assholes-aka-mass-ignorance-on-the-sdmb/161970/55 "2003-03-21T16:36:18Z")
I am not suggesting that they are right at all. The premiss that it was your church at fault is moronic. The question, for me, becomes why are they holding so hard onto demonstrably idiodic beliefs. There has to be a gain for them. I don’t know how to fight ignorance for sure but I do believe part of it has to be addressing why people chose to remain ignorant. It does seem by just battering them with facts they hold tighter to their beliefs, so maybe a change of approach might work better. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-assholes-aka-mass-ignorance-on-the-sdmb/161970/56 "2003-03-21T16:58:00Z")
So I’m not supposed to use facts? _What?_ ---
**Author:** ![furlibusea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/aca169/32.png) [@furlibusea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furlibusea)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-assholes-aka-mass-ignorance-on-the-sdmb/161970/57 "2003-03-21T17:43:23Z")
Of course use facts. I just think that understanding why they are blind might assist in helping them prossess the facts. If nothing else it may help you keep from causing yourself a concusion banging your head against the moniter when you don’t get through. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-assholes-aka-mass-ignorance-on-the-sdmb/161970/58 "2003-03-21T19:08:58Z")
I already understand why bigots are blind. They’re bigots. Some folks find prejudice to be nostalgic. I don’t admire them for that and I’m certainly not going to coddle that type of moron. The cure for ignorance is facts. ---
**Author:** ![jacksen9](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ce73a5/32.png) [@jacksen9](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jacksen9)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2003, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-assholes-aka-mass-ignorance-on-the-sdmb/161970/59 "2003-03-21T19:55:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*You might be right about why they think in that erroneous way, furli, but there’s no way on God’s green Earth I’m going to have an iota of empathy for someone who holds a view that a 14 year old girl is in any way to blame for what happened to her in this case. \*\* Did I miss that statement? I did not see it written anywhere that E.S. was to blame for what happened. I read through the thread quickly just for an update. I have followed it since it started. Did I miss something? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2003, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-assholes-aka-mass-ignorance-on-the-sdmb/161970/60 "2003-03-22T01:09:32Z")
Evidently, you did, jacksen. There’s comments in that thread about her faith being to blame, there’s comments in there that the kidnapper must’ve been good in bed, there’s comments in there about hoping the victim had fun on her vacation. Yep. You missed a heck of a lot. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-assholes-aka-mass-ignorance-on-the-sdmb/161970.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-assholes-aka-mass-ignorance-on-the-sdmb/161970.md?page=4)