# SDMB Baseball Hall of Fame Vote #3: Second Basemen **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [August 2, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-3-second-basemen/458569 "2008-08-02T03:21:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-3-second-basemen/458569/1 "2008-08-02T03:21:57Z")
Well, we’ve elected ten catchers and ten first basemen to the SDMB Baseball Hall of Fame. Now this is your chance to vote on second basemen. The rules are simple: 1. Please vote for TEN second baseman who have played major league baseball in North America, not including Negro League play, for which we will have other rounds of voting. You may vote for fewer than ten if you like, but I do ask you name ten if you possibly can. If you vote for more than ten all names past #10 are discounted. The order you place the players in makes no difference. 2. Your votes are not restricted by any restriction Cooperstown uses. You may vote for currently active players, players who have just recently retired, or players who eligibility to Cooperstown has passed. 3. The ten players who receive the most votes are immediately inducted into the Hall of Fame. 4. Although I will provide, in this post, a full list of all second basemen who are in the Hall of Fame, likely candidates, or had careers of significant length and accomplishment, it is an open ballot and you may vote for absolutely anyone you wish. If I miss a really significant name, please make it known. 5. Discussion is encouraged but please let some votes gather up first, and please don’t crowd out the voting. Thanks! The voting closes midnight Monday. Here is a list - again, you can vote beyond this list and it is provided solely for your convenience and reference: Second Basemen BOLD Indicates Statistical Leader For HOF Second Basemen Name [Link To Full Stats] HITS AVG OBP SLG HR RBI RUNS SB Eddie Collins Bobby Doerr Max Bishop Johnny Evers Eddie Stanky Nellie Fox Frankie Frisch Charlie Gehringer Billy Herman Bill Doran Rogers Hornsby Nap Lajoie Bobby Avila Claude Ritchey Tony Lazzeri Dick McAuliffe Bobby Lowe Bill Mazeroski Bid McPhee Joe Morgan Jackie Robinson Ryne Sandberg Red Schoendienst Rod Carew (recieved 10 votes in 1st basemen ballot; not elected there) Kid Gleason Ray Durham Lon Frey Roberto Alomar Craig Biggio Jeff Kent Buddy Myer Joe Gordon Lou Whitaker Bobby Grich Bret Boone Willie Randolph Cupid Childs Ross Barnes Frank White Davey Lopes Marty McManus Chuck Knoblauch Tony Cuniccelo Larry Doyle Jim Gilliam Del Pratt Bobby Richardson Tommy Herr Manny Trillo Miller Huggins Luis Castillo ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-3-second-basemen/458569/2 "2008-08-02T03:39:16Z")
Rogers Hornsby Joe Morgan Rod Carew Craig Biggio Eddie Collins Charlie Gehringer Nap Lajoie Jackie Robinson Ryne Sandburg Nellie Fox ---
**Author:** ![pricciar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@pricciar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pricciar)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-3-second-basemen/458569/3 "2008-08-02T04:15:48Z")
Jackie Robinson Ryne Sandberg Joe Morgan Rogers Hornsby Roberto Alomar Rod Carew Craig Biggio Eddie Collins Nap Lajoie Frankie Frisch I am going to guess that Jackie Robinson and Eddie Collins will be the Lou Gerhrigs of this list. pat ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-3-second-basemen/458569/4 "2008-08-02T04:16:09Z")
Hornsby Carew Morgan Collins Biggio Robinson Alomar Grich Gordon Frisch ---
**Author:** ![Parthol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/dec6dc/32.png) [@Parthol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Parthol)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-3-second-basemen/458569/5 "2008-08-02T05:01:45Z")
Some very tough choices at the bottom of this list! Rogers Hornsby Nap Lajoie Eddie Collins Joe Morgan Jackie Robinson Charlie Gehringer Bobby Grich Jeff Kent Frankie Frisch Ryne Sandberg It pains me to omit Roberto Alomar, Lou Whitaker, Bobby Doerr and Craig Biggio, all of whom would be perfectly sensible choices for the top ten. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-3-second-basemen/458569/6 "2008-08-02T05:13:28Z")
In no particular order, my choices: Eddie Collins Rogers Hornsby Nap Lajoie Nellie Fox Joe Morgan Jackie Robinson Ryne Sandberg Charlie Gehringer Bill Mazeroski Roberto Alomar ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-3-second-basemen/458569/7 "2008-08-02T05:34:33Z")
Gehringer Hornsby Morgan Collins Lajoie Carew Biggio Sandberg Doerr Grich ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-3-second-basemen/458569/8 "2008-08-02T05:38:43Z")
Roberto Alomar Craig Bigggio Rod Carew Eddie Collins Charlie Gehringer Rogers Hornsby Nap Lajoie Joe Morgan Jackie Robinson Eddie Stanky ---
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-3-second-basemen/458569/9 "2008-08-02T06:36:24Z")
I think it may have been interesting to allow people to vote X instead of a full ten players, allowing them in effect to cast a ballot for a Small Hall (if X ranks in the top 10, then only the top 9 are entered; if there are enough X’s to rank in the top 10 twice, then only the top 8 are entered, etc.) That said, here’s my vote: Robert Alomar Craig Biggio Rod Carew Eddie Collins Charlie Gehringer Roger Hornsby Nap Lajoie Joe Morgan Jackie Robinson Ryne Sandberg I guess I’m an offense whore, since I don’t really know how to evaluate defense very well, especially of players I’ve never seen. I expected Hornsby, Jackie R. and Morgan to be on every ballot, so I’m surprised that you left Jackie out, gonzomax. Was his career too short, or is he not 2B enough? Even without breaking the color barrier, a career .311/.409/.474 is awesome for the era he played in. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-3-second-basemen/458569/10 "2008-08-02T10:27:31Z")
Eddie Collins Johnny Evers Frankie Frisch Charlie Gehringer Rogers Hornsby Nap Lajoie Tony Lazzeri Joe Morgan Jackie Robinson Ryne Sandberg In his revised Historical Abstract, James wrote that Morgan, Collins and Hornsby stand apart from every other second baseman. That was in 2000 or so, but I don’t think anything has changed. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-3-second-basemen/458569/11 "2008-08-02T12:22:16Z")
Rogers Hornsby Joe Morgan Rod Carew Ryne Sandberg Eddie Collins Charlie Gehringer Nap Lajoie Jackie Robinson Tony Lazzeri Frankie Frisch Biggio and Sandberg have pretty close stats. That’s a tough call. I’m going with Sandberg because I think he was better defensively. JMO. ---
**Author:** ![bmoak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9dc877/32.png) [@bmoak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bmoak)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-3-second-basemen/458569/12 "2008-08-02T14:10:47Z")
Hornsby Morgan Collins Robinson LaJoie Carew Gehringer Frisch Biggio Sandberg ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-3-second-basemen/458569/13 "2008-08-02T15:00:29Z")
Rogers Hornsby _He was the best ever_ Tony Lazzeri _Poosh 'Em Up Tony A Yankee great knocking in 100+ RBIs 7 times and has 5 World Series Rings My sentimental pick._ Joe Morgan _(I hate him as an announcer, but he was a great player)_ Jackie Robinson _He has to make the list. He just has to make the list_ Eddie Collins _Damn good player, probably the second best_ Nap Lajoie _I always like to acknowledge the old timers, there is a reason he went into the hall in 1937_ Charlie Gehringer _He was a great fielder and hitter. Had 200+ hits 7 times. Fun note, played every inning of the first six all star games. \* Frankie Frisch_ .316 .369 .432 419sb 105hr 1532r He was suppose to be a great defensive player and was a great base runner. \* Rod Carew _.328 .393 .429 353sb 1424r_ Roberto Alomar\* .300 .371 .443 474sb 1508r 210hr He played great defense and was a great hitter.\* ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-3-second-basemen/458569/14 "2008-08-02T15:15:47Z")
I overlooked Alomar somehow. Tough call between him, Ryno and Biggio for a modern player. It’s easy to forget how good Alomar was before he hung around too long. I just cheated a bit and looked at the HOF standards on [baseball-reference.com](http://baseball-reference.com): Black Ink: AVG HOFer 27 Alomar 3 Biggio 17 Sandberg 14 Grey Ink: AVG HOFer 144 Alomar 95 Biggio 104 Sandberg 134 HOF Standards: AVG HOFer ~ 50 Alomar 55.9 Biggio 55.9 Sandberg 41.9 HOF Monitor: Likely HOFer \>100 Alomar 193.5 Biggio 169 Sandberg 157.5 This makes it very close, but I think Biggio gets the lean. ---
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-3-second-basemen/458569/15 "2008-08-02T15:19:10Z")
Roberto Alomar Rogers Hornsby Jackie Robinson Ryne Sandberg Craig Biggio Nap Lajoie Eddie Collins Charlie Gehringer Joe Morgan Frankie Frisch ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-3-second-basemen/458569/16 "2008-08-02T15:20:29Z")
Eddie Collins Frankie Frisch Charlie Gehringer Rogers Hornsby Nap Lajoie Bill Mazeroski Joe Morgan Ryne Sandberg Rod Carew Roberto Alomar ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-3-second-basemen/458569/17 "2008-08-02T15:33:58Z")
[QUOTE=Southern Yankee] I overlooked Alomar somehow. Tough call between him, Ryno and Biggio for a modern player. It’s easy to forget how good Alomar was before he hung around too long. I just cheated a bit and looked at the HOF standards on [baseball-reference.com](http://baseball-reference.com): Black Ink: AVG HOFer 27 Alomar 3 Biggio 17 Sandberg 14 Grey Ink: AVG HOFer 144 Alomar 95 Biggio 104 Sandberg 134 HOF Standards: AVG HOFer ~ 50 Alomar 55.9 Biggio 55.9 Sandberg 41.9 HOF Monitor: Likely HOFer \>100 Alomar 193.5 Biggio 169 Sandberg 157.5 This makes it very close, but I think Biggio gets the lean. [/QUOTE] I used different numbers and gave Alomar a bonus for his glove. Glove should be especially important up the middle at least. Not that Biggio and Sandberg were bad, they were in fact good. I think Alomar was great (at least until he got to the Mets) Sandberg is almost surely going to make the cut here, but I don’t think he should be top 10. I am glad to see Nap Lajoie is going to make the cut, at so far. **Frank** , how do you leave \*\*Jackie Robinson \*\* off? Are you going purely by the numbers? When a player is bigger than the game and changes the game and the country I think he deserves some huge bonus points. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-3-second-basemen/458569/18 "2008-08-02T16:36:50Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Alomar was great (at least until he got to the Mets). [/QUOTE] That was when I saw him, and that eliminated him from my list, forever. Not just because he totally sucked, which he did, but because everyone raved about his sucky defense at first. It’s hard to quantify defense, at least superficially, but everyone I knew kept going on and on about how Alomar steadied the infield, what fabulous range he had, etc. and I kept going “Really? I’m not seeing it,” and they kept telling me to shut up, what am I, blind? Don’t you know how many Gold Gloves he has? and so on, until even they gave up–he went straight from “Our HoFer” to “He can’t catch nothing” with no change other than time. His reputation carried him for a year or two on offense too. Same thing. People raved about how smart he was, but I kept thinking that diving headfirst into first base didn’t seem too smart, and bunting with ducks on the pond isn’t smart, especially for a #2 or #3 hitter with one out, and eventually every Mets fan in the universe despised him for a clueless loser, which is how I will evaluate him. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-3-second-basemen/458569/19 "2008-08-02T16:37:14Z")
Joe Morgan (.272 batting average…414 secondary average. Put tons of runs on the scoreboard during a kickass prime) Eddie Collins (dead ball guy underrated (or unknown) by many casual fans, other than power terrific all around) Rogers Hornsby (a total ass off the field, an indifferent fielder on it, but great with the timber in his hands) Jackie Robinson (Underrated as a defender even as he switched around between 4 positions-almost as impactful a player as Morgan) Craig Biggio (probably the most competitive player of this era, even if it wasn’t always obvious) Nap LaJoie (defense is overrated, best season in a weak league, but wonderful hitter) Ryne Sandberg (Idol of mine, so I’m biased. Yes Wrigley helped him some, but few were as good going to their right) Rod Carew (bread and butter hit was a bat-flicked looper into LF-and you also have all those steals of home) Robbie Alomar (I think his D has been underrated a bit, and he aged horribly, but an excellent player during his heyday) Bobby Grich (incredibly underrated, great defender who played in pitcher’s parks and whose offensive strengths didn’t include batting average) I wanted to get Lou Whitaker on there but he didn’t quite make the cut. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2008, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-3-second-basemen/458569/20 "2008-08-02T16:44:59Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] That was when I saw him, and that eliminated him from my list, forever. Not just because he totally sucked, which he did, but because everyone raved about his sucky defense at first. It’s hard to quantify defense, at least superficially, but everyone I knew kept going on and on about how Alomar steadied the infield, what fabulous range he had, etc. and I kept going “Really? I’m not seeing it,” and they kept telling me to shut up, what am I, blind? Don’t you know how many Gold Gloves he has? and so on, until even they gave up–he went straight from “Our HoFer” to “He can’t catch nothing” with no change other than time. His reputation carried him for a year or two on offense too. Same thing. People raved about how smart he was, but I kept thinking that diving headfirst into first base didn’t seem too smart, and bunting with ducks on the pond isn’t smart, especially for a #2 or #3 hitter with one out, and eventually every Mets fan in the universe despised him for a clueless loser, which is how I will evaluate him. [/QUOTE] Well that is fair, I remember Alomar from his Toronto, Baltimore and Cleveland days and then his Met misery. I saw him a lot and I thought he was truly great. I have rarely seen a player decline as quick as he did. It was shocking. I think Shea has had that affect on other players too. It ended Murcer’s Yankee career at least until he returned as a backup outfielder. \*\*John DiFool \*\*, thanks for the blurbs, I love seeing a little of what went into a vote. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-3-second-basemen/458569.md?page=2)