# SDMB Baseball Hall of Fame, Vote #4: Shortstops **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [August 5, 2008, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878 "2008-08-05T03:39:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/1 "2008-08-05T03:39:54Z")
This is the fourth round of voting on the SDMB Baseball Hall of Fame. In this round we will be voting on shortstops. I think this one will REALLY be a doozy. The rules remain the same as before: 1. Please vote for TEN shortstops who have played major league baseball in North America, not including Negro League play, for which we will have other rounds of voting. You may vote for fewer than ten if you like, but I do ask you name ten if you possibly can. If you vote for more than ten, all names past #10 are discounted. The order you place the players in makes no difference. 2. Your votes are not restricted by any restriction Cooperstown uses. You may vote for currently active players, players who have just recently retired, or players whose eligibility to Cooperstown has passed. 3. The ten players who receive the most votes are immediately inducted into the Hall of Fame. 4. Although I will provide, in this post, a full list of all shortstops who are in the Hall of Fame, likely candidates, or had careers of significant length and accomplishment, it is an open ballot and you may vote for absolutely anyone you wish. If I miss a really significant name, please make it known. 5. Discussion is encouraged but please let some votes gather up first. Detailed discussion of this series of threads may be found here: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=477967&page=2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=477967&page=2) Thanks, and happy voting! Luis Aparicio Luke Appling Dave Bancroft Ernie Banks Dick Bartell Mark Belanger Jay Bell Lou Boudreau Larry Bowa Bert Campaneris Leo Cardenas Ray Chapman Dave Concepcion Joe Cronin Bill Dahlen Alvin Dark George Davis Tony Fernandez Art Fletcher Jim Fregosi Greg Gagne Nomar Garciaparra Jack Glasscock (huh huh huh) Dick Groat Granny Hamner Travis Jackson Hughie Jennings Derek Jeter Billy Jurges Eddie Joost Don Kessinger Barry Larkin Herman Long Johnny Logan Rabbit Maranville Marty Marion Freddie Patek Rico Petrocelli Roger Peckinpaugh Pee Wee Reese Cal Ripken, Jr. Phil Rizzuto Alex Rodriguez Joe Sewell Everett Scott Ozzie Smith Vern Stephens Miguel Tejada Garry Templeton Joe Tinker Alan Trammell Cecil Travis Arky Vaughan Honus Wagner Bobby Wallace John Ward Omar Vizquel Maury Wills Robin Yount ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/2 "2008-08-05T04:01:45Z")
Ernie Banks Lou Boudreau Joe Cronin Derek Jeter Cal Ripken Jr. Alex Rodriguez Joe Sewell Ozzie Smith Arky Vaughn Honus Wagner Ozzie is the only man who makes the list based primarily on defense. And Jeter makes my list despite being only an average defensive shortstop, at best. Shortstop is one of the positions where I WANT to count defense more strongly. And I’d LOVE to put Mark Belanger in the Hall of Fame for his glove alone. Unfortunately, he was waaaaay too weak a hitter. Ozzie Smith gets in because his fielding percentage shows he was every bit as sure-handed as Belanger AND had better range besides. Joe Sewell gets in because a guy who strikes out that rarely is nothing short of miraculous. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/3 "2008-08-05T04:06:35Z")
Luke Appling Ernie Banks Bill Dahlen George Davis Cal Ripken, Jr. Alex Rodriguez Ozzie Smith Arky Vaughan Honus Wagner Robin Yount Close but no cigar for Lou Boudreau, Joe Cronin (really hard to separate him and Appling), Derek Jeter (severely dinged for the defense), Barry Larkin (probably #11 for me; criminally underrated), Pee Wee Reese, Alan Trammell, and George Wright, among others. Lots of good candidates. ---
**Author:** ![Parthol](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/dec6dc/32.png) [@Parthol](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Parthol)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/4 "2008-08-05T04:47:21Z")
Honus Wagner Arky Vaughan Alex Rodriguez Ernie Banks Robin Yount Joe Cronin Cal Ripken, Jr. Barry Larkin Ozzie Smith Luke Appling Another tough one. Just missing the cut for me were Trammell, Reese, Jeter, Boudreau, and George Davis. ---
**Author:** ![pricciar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@pricciar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pricciar)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/5 "2008-08-05T04:56:03Z")
Cal Ripken Jr. - So much more than the record. But, that record is impessive. Alex Rodriguez - Amazing Hitter Ozzie Smith - Amazing fielder Honus Wagner - Expensive baseball card. Ernie Banks - Let’s play two! Luke Appling - Never saw him play. But, his stats are impressive. Derek Jeter - Criminally overrated, but still fantastic. Arky Vaughan - Fun name! Robin Yount - Great hitter and played forever. Barry Larkin - Could do everything well. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/6 "2008-08-05T05:45:42Z")
My picks: Honus Wagner Cal Ripken, Jr. Ozzie Smith Ernie Banks Alex Rodriguez Robin Yount Joe Cronin Luke Appling Luis Aparicio Hughie Jennings ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/7 "2008-08-05T09:27:55Z")
Luke Appling Lou Boudreau George Davis Herman Long Pee Wee Reese Cal Ripken, Jr. Alex Rodriguez Ozzie Smith Arky Vaughan Honus Wagner Here’s an instance of the multiposition thing hurting deserving players. I had Banks and Yount on my original list of 14, but when paring it down, I said “Okay he (they) didn’t play his whole career at short and these other guys did, so they have to go.” Not sure that was right, but that’s what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/8 "2008-08-05T10:04:29Z")
My ballot: **Alex Rodriguez** - One of the greatest hitters of his time in any position, the fact that he’s done it at shortstop makes him a modern legend. That he’s also a good defensive shortstop (his Range Factor / Game was consistently well above league average during his time at SS) makes him one of the best players who’s ever lived. I had the pleasure of watching him play for many years in Seattle before he decided to pretend to chase championships for obscene amounts of money. \*\* Honus Wagner\*\* - The premiere offensive shortstop of the dead ball era. Impressive offense (his career OBP was 60 points above league average!), and his defensive stats weren’t too shabby, either. Extra points for having a famous baseball card. **Ozzie Smith** - The Wizard of Oz’s reputation is much deserved. I watched him play during the tail end of his career, and he really was a brilliant defensive player. His RF/9 vs. league RF/9 bears that out. Also, his OBP was a hair above league average, which means he shouldn’t be outright disqualified for his offense (yes he was an awful slugger but he very rarely struck out, as well). Extra points for backflippery. \*\* Ernie Banks\*\* - Great defense and a great slugger. His OBP was a little less than league average, but his other attributes make up for it. Extra points for suffering with the Chicago Cubs. 😉 **Cal Ripken, Jr.** - He never struck me as a truly great defender, but he was certainly solid, and his defensive stats bore that out. One of the best hitting shortstop of his time, until ARod and crew came knocking. Not that he was great (OPS+ 112), but for a shortstop, really good. Extra points for being an Iron Man and giving baseball a bit of positive publicity. **Arky Vaughan** - This guy’s numbers are amazing for shortstops of his time. OBP at .406, OPS+ at 136, and his defensive numbers look average-above average. Don’t know much about him, but come on in. **Luke Appling** - He’s pretty much just numbers to me, as well but career OBP at .399 is pretty impressive. His RF/G is also well above league average. \*\* Barry Larkin\*\* - Very solid offensively and defensively, and while not spectacular in either, was among the best of his time at both. Extra points for being under everybody else’s shadow. \*\*Robin Yount **- Similar to Barry Larkin. Extra points for playing forever, and a day, and somehow managing to grind out 3100+ hits. \*\* Joe Cronin** - Like Luke Appling, very nice numbers all around, and gotta love the career OBP of .390. EDIT: I just realized I’m a total OBP whore. And I’m fine with that. I actually wish OPS was normalized so that OBP counted as much as SLG, or even more. 2x OBP + SLG or something like that. ---
**Author:** ![Windwalker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/5e9695/32.png) [@Windwalker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Windwalker)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/9 "2008-08-05T10:12:38Z")
Oh and about Derek Jeter. I just couldn’t bring myself to vote for a subpar defender in such an important position, no matter how much of an offense whore I am. If he had ARod stats, sure, but not DJet stats. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/10 "2008-08-05T12:35:11Z")
Ozzie Smith Arky Vaughan Honus Wagner Alex Rodriguez Cal Ripken, Jr. Ernie Banks Lou Boudreau Luis Aparicio Joe Cronin Luke Appling The thing to remember is that being left off this list of 10 doesn’t mean they aren’t good enough to be in the HOF, they’re just not Top 10. Jeter’s defensive “liability” is extremely overstated. Anyone who has watched his whole career closely will testify to that. That’s a whole 'nother thread though. Larkin and Vizquel are/were great players, but not Top 10. Scooter and Pee Wee? Ditto. Yount is a tough one. I only saw him play outfield, but he may not make the cut there with the amount of great players that will be on that list. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/11 "2008-08-05T12:37:09Z")
Ernie Banks Lou Boudreau Dave Concepcion Joe Cronin Marty Marion Cal Ripken, Jr. Alex Rodriguez Honus Wagner Maury Wills Robin Yount ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/12 "2008-08-05T12:50:41Z")
Honus Wagner Pee Wee Reese Cal Ripken, Jr. Phil Rizzuto Alex Rodriguez Ernie Banks Omar Vizquel Robin Yount Lou Boudreau Luke Appling ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/13 "2008-08-05T13:02:29Z")
Luis Aparicio Ernie Banks Lou Boudreau Pee Wee Reese Cal Ripken, Jr. Phil Rizzuto Ozzie Smith Honus Wagner Omar Vizquel Maury Wills ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/14 "2008-08-05T13:03:06Z")
Duplicate post ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/15 "2008-08-05T13:19:52Z")
Boy, this one IS hard. Luke Appling - It’s not every player who’s lifetime OBP exceeds their SLG. Ernie Banks Joe Cronin Derek Jeter Cal Ripken, Jr. Alex Rodriguez Joe Sewell Ozzie Smith Arky Vaughan Honus Wagner Yount removed because maybe I can slide him into CF. Aparicio - That .311 lifetime OBP is a killer. Argh. This was REALLY painful. There have been on HELL of a lot of great shortstops over the years. Removing Trammell gave me shortness of breath. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/16 "2008-08-05T13:51:48Z")
Honus Wagner (I’d love to see what he would do in a lively ball era-probably 40-50 home runs) Arky Vaughan (severely underrated by history, but the 2nd-best hitting SS) Cal Ripken Jr. (had his ups and downs during the streak but all those games added plenty of extra value) Robin Yount (prime was mostly as a SS-terrific player and teammate) Ernie Banks (ditto Yount-pretty indifferent 1B tho but incredible hitter when a SS) Barry Larkin (we’ll see in a couple of years how the writers see him-injury prone but great when in the lineup-you’ll note that most guys here were up and down in terms of production and/or playing time-tough position to stay healthy at) Ozzie Smith (incredible glove, underrated as a hitter despite no power, outside of a couple of playoff games of course) Alan Trammell (my sad sack pick here-getting no love from the voters so far-about the 6th best hitter, unappreciated fielder) Alex Rodriguez & Derek Jeter (as a Red Sox fan it…took…me…a…long…time…to type in their names, but no choice really. Jeter is overrated, mediocre defender, but few outhit him, A-Rod gets some grief from the media but only Wagner and maybe Vaughan outhit him) Honorable mention to Peewee Reese, Luke Appling (he of the endless foul ball at-bats), and Nomar (who if not injured for the past 5 years I would have included with Jeter and A-Rod) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/17 "2008-08-05T17:11:04Z")
Honus Wagner. I hate to go that far back in time but he was dominant. All time great numbers. Banks Arod Yount Arky Vaughn Ripken Showed up for work on time a lot Larkin Jeter Trammell Hit 300 7 times. Terriffic dbl play combo with Lou for 19 years ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/18 "2008-08-05T18:20:30Z")
You’re entitled to one more name, gonzo. My list: Honus Wagner Cal Ripken, Jr. Arky Vaughan Alex Rodriguez Ozzie Smith Robin Yount Joe Cronin Luke Appling George Davis Alan Trammell ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/19 "2008-08-05T18:24:37Z")
Oops skipped Ricky Henderson I dislike him but… ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/20 "2008-08-05T18:28:35Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] Honus Wagner Pee Wee Reese Cal Ripken, Jr. Phil Rizzuto Alex Rodriguez Ernie Banks [del]Omar Vizquel[/del] Derek Jeter Robin Yount Lou Boudreau Luke Appling [/QUOTE] I would like to make a change in my vote. I would like to Sub Jeter in for Vizquel. [QUOTE=gonzomax] Oops skipped Ricky Henderson I dislike him but.. [/QUOTE] Ricky played exactly 0 games at short **gonzomax** , who did you mean? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878.md?page=2)