# SDMB Baseball Hall of Fame, Vote #4: Shortstops **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [August 5, 2008, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878 "2008-08-05T03:39:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![drm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e57/32.png) [@drm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drm)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/21 "2008-08-05T18:41:13Z")
Alex Rodriguez Ozzie Smith Ernie Banks Honus Wagner Cal Ripken, Jr. Robin Yount Arky Vaughan Omar Vizquel Luke Appling Alan Trammell ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/22 "2008-08-05T18:48:05Z")
It sucks that people like George Davis aren’t going to get enough support in these votes. There’s even less chance of them getting in by way of the wild card rounds. ☹ Anyone want to give me their reasons for saying that Luis Aparicio is one of the top ten shortstops ever? ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/23 "2008-08-05T18:51:23Z")
Aparicio was a 10-time All-Star, won 9 Gold Gloves, and led the league in steals 9 times. He was an assist machine too. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/24 "2008-08-05T19:05:34Z")
Lou Boudreau . ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/25 "2008-08-05T19:08:48Z")
So in for his fielding and speed and not his bat? Okay, I guess. I don’t see much that separates him from Vizquel or Maranville or the legion of good field, no-hit shortstops out there, but it is what it is. ---
**Author:** ![Southern\_Yankee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/southern_yankee/32/2800_2.png) [@Southern\_Yankee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Southern_Yankee)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/26 "2008-08-05T19:11:18Z")
When his playing days were over he held the record for DPs and assists. That’s pretty good defense. His batting numbers pale compared to the shortstops today, but he did have over 2600 hits (although to be fair, he had over 10,000 at bats.) ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/27 "2008-08-05T19:28:44Z")
Fair enough! ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/28 "2008-08-05T19:35:50Z")
Luis Aparicio Luke Appling Ernie Banks Mark Belanger (only because I’m not quite sentimental and quirky enough to vote for Hal Lanier) Cal Ripken, Jr. Alex Rodriguez Ozzie Smith Joe Tinker Honus Wagner Robin Yount ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/29 "2008-08-05T19:43:45Z")
[QUOTE=What Exit?] I would like to make a change in my vote. I would like to Sub Jeter in for Vizquel. [/QUOTE] Sure. Any other New York based shortstops ya wanna toss in there? 😉 For everybody’s info **you may change your votes at any time** prior to the vote concluding. Please make it clear who you are replacing with whom, as Jim did above, stating precisely who he was takjing off and who he was putting on. Incidentally, this round of voting ends at midnight (EST) on Thursday. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/30 "2008-08-05T19:59:31Z")
[QUOTE=Gadarene] It sucks that people like George Davis aren’t going to get enough support in these votes. There’s even less chance of them getting in by way of the wild card rounds. ☹ [/QUOTE] I have a philosophical bias against 19th century players; basically what they did they did in a league or leagues which were equivalent to AA/AAA now in terms of the competition level. There’s that, and the various rule changes (like foul 3rd strike bunts, changes in the distance of the rubber to the plate, etc.). Yes I draw the line arbitrarily at 1900, but even then I have a timeline adjustment in my votes reflecting what I see as the competition level slowly increasing up to around 1950, when the color line was broken, and then increasing a bit faster after integration (which is why the likes of Cronin & Gehringer aren’t on my ballots). It’s not that I don’t think that there were great players in 1895, but that given the spotty record keeping, the rapidly changing ruleset, and the low level of competition, I am really in no position to say one way or another. Likewise there were Negro League players who were the equal of the top 1900-1950 Hall of Famers (Josh Gibson and Oscar Charleston have no apologies to make to anyone), but I cannot properly compare their stat lines (such as they are) to those of the 1900-1950 major leaguers, so I really won’t know if I am underrating someone or overrating them. Perhaps we should have a separate 20 name ballot for the Negro Leaguers once we are done with the main balloting. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/31 "2008-08-05T20:04:22Z")
[QUOTE=John DiFool] Likewise there were Negro League players who were the equal of the top 1900-1950 Hall of Famers (Josh Gibson and Oscar Charleston have no apologies to make to anyone), but I cannot properly compare their stat lines (such as they are) to those of the 1900-1950 major leaguers, so I really won’t know if I am underrating someone or overrating them. Perhaps we should have a separate 20 name ballot for the Negro Leaguers once we are done with the main balloting. [/QUOTE] We’ll be doing a Negro League ballot. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/32 "2008-08-05T20:04:58Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] Sure. Any other New York based shortstops ya wanna toss in there? 😉 [/QUOTE] I thought about Bucky “F’ing” Dent but changed my mind. 😃 Seriously, I thought it back over and thought Ozzie should beat out Vizquel and then I said the hell with this Jeter really is worth more than either and I can make two homer picks. ---
**Author:** ![Hugh\_Jass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/4da419/32.png) [@Hugh\_Jass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hugh_Jass)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/33 "2008-08-05T21:28:07Z")
Ernie Banks Larry Bowa Joe Cronin Travis Jackson Cal Ripken, Jr. Joe Sewell Everett Scott Vern Stephens Arky Vaughan Honus Wagner ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/34 "2008-08-05T21:33:57Z")
No A-Rod! I have to ask. ---
**Author:** ![Sternvogel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bc79bd/32.png) [@Sternvogel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sternvogel)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/35 "2008-08-05T22:04:32Z")
I appreciate your putting the names in (more or less) alphabetical order. Once again, I’ve **bolded** the names of those contenders I’ve seen play, and selected the “older-timers” on the basis of reputation. **Luis Aparicio** (still has the most hits as a shortstop, never played any other defensive position, stole over 500 bases, turned double plays at a then-record pace) Luke Appling (legendary for fouling off pitches, but also hit enough fair balls to bat .310 over his career. Technically I saw him play, as he hit a homer at the age of 75 in an old-timers’ game that was televised in 1982.) **Ernie Banks** (he was a first baseman by the time I saw him play, but the “Let’s play two!” man definitely deserves induction) Lou Boudreau (I could never return to Cleveland, or aat least my parents’ house, if I failed to pick him!) **Cal Ripken, Jr.** (some people say he’s overrated because of his consecutive games/innings streaks, but he would never have amassed those numbers if he hadn’t been a darn good player!) **Ozzie Smith** (defined the position during his career) Arky Vaughan – he’s the Pirates’ second-best all-time shortstop, but the man he trails is… Honus Wagner (as they say in the **Feud** threads, “Conch!”) **Omar Vizquel** (defensive ability in his prime is enough to get him on my list, and his batting marks are more than respectable for the position) These nine stand out, with tenth a “pick-'em” among **Concepción** , Cronin, **Jeter** , Marion, and Sewell. Because he struck out a mere 114 times in 7132 career at-bats, including just thrice in 503 trips in 1932 and four times in each of three other full seasons, I’ll give Joe Sewell the nod. “A-Rod” has been a third baseman in recent seasons, so I’ll either vote for him at that position or in a wild card round. Similarly, Yount played enough outfield that I can justify postponing voting for him. Summary list: **Aparicio** Appling **Banks** Boudreau **Ripken** Sewell **Smith** Vaughan **Vizquel** Wagner ---
**Author:** ![kevja](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/aeb1de/32.png) [@kevja](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kevja)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/36 "2008-08-05T22:10:34Z")
Ernie Banks **Bert Campaneris** (I tend to go modern with these picks, and I may be the only poster to select him. But he meant so much to those A’s teams of the 70s; in the field and at the plate.) Dave Concepcion Derek Jeter Barry Larkin Cal Ripken, Jr. Alex Rodriguez Ozzie Smith Maury Wills Robin Yount ---
**Author:** ![carlb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carlb/32/5930_2.png) [@carlb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carlb)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/37 "2008-08-05T23:09:09Z")
Why does Concepcion get overlooked so much? I ask because I was a _huge_ fan of the Big Red Machine, and Concepcion in particular. On the other hand, I haven’t watched a lot of baseball since the early '80s, and I was never really into the stats. It was more of an experiential thing for me than a statistical exercise. So, why does Concepcion not get as much love as he does in my memories? Was he all-around-good-but-not-great? Does he get overshadowed by personalities and players like Bench and Rose? Or does he honestly just not match up to the others. Not trying to start a fight; I’m honestly curious. I have very, very fond memories of watching Concepcion and the rest of that team play, but I recognize that they’re colored by emotion more than anything else. ---
**Author:** ![Gadarene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Gadarene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gadarene)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/38 "2008-08-05T23:34:29Z")
> [@](#): > > Was he all-around-good-but-not-great? This is my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/39 "2008-08-05T23:45:01Z")
[QUOTE=carlb] So, why does Concepcion not get as much love as he does in my memories? Was he all-around-good-but-not-great? Does he get overshadowed by personalities and players like Bench and Rose? Or does he honestly just not match up to the others. [/QUOTE] He had a very slick glove, but I have seen better and heard about better and his bat was nothing special, even for his time. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2008, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878/40 "2008-08-05T23:56:48Z")
Yeah, I’d drop Concepcion into the same pile as Rizzuto, myself. A good man to have around but not one of the all time greats. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-baseball-hall-of-fame-vote-4-shortstops/458878.md?page=3)