# SDMB Bigoted Asshole Omnibus Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 29, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489 "2012-05-29T22:59:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 103
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2041 "2012-06-18T23:22:20Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Unlike those who flame both of us, brazil84 is courteous, articulate, and well informed. If he has responded in kind to the insults that have been thrown at him by those who cannot respond rationally to his arguments, I missed it. Once again, you fucking moron, the whole purpose of the Pit is to flame idiots like you two. If you don’t like the insults, you don’t have to participate in the thread. We’ve here because both of you don’t respond to rational arguments, but continue to make the same stupid statements over and over again even when they’ve been refuted. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2042 "2012-06-18T23:23:37Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Several other researchers have been skeptical about the value of the study for illuminating the causes of racial IQ differences. > > Arthur Jensen has pointed out that the white girls in the study obtained an average IQ eight points below that of the white boys, **suggesting a sampling error,** because in the WISC standardization sample the average IQs of boys and girls are equal (among the mixed-race subjects in the Eyferth study, there was a small sex difference of 1 point, favoring boys). He has also noted that the IQs of the children’s mothers and fathers are unknown, and that white and black G.I.'s in Germany were not equally representative of their respective populations, since **about 30 percent of blacks, compared to about 3 percent of whites, failed the preinduction mental test and were not admitted into the armed forces**. He further argues that the selective preferences of the German women with regard to sexual partners may have influenced the results in an unknown manner. Moreover, nearly all of the children were tested before adolescence, i.e. before the genotypic aspect of IQ has become fully manifested. Finally, Jensen suggests that heterosis may have enhanced the IQ level of the mixed race children in the study.[8] > Rushton and Jensen have further pointed out that **20–25% of the fathers in the study were not African Americans but rather French North Africans**.[9] > [Eyferth study - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyferth_study) > > French North Africans are likely to be Caucasians. Also this study was limited to 387 children, so we are talking about a sample that is too small to draw many conclusions from. Nevertheless, this study is frequently mentioned by those who are looking for any evidence they can find that the races are equal in terms of innate ability. Of course- any study that agrees with your conclusions must be a good study, and any study that doesn’t must have problems. You’ve shown remarkably little inclination to challenge yourself. And at least Eyferth didn’t make up data like Lynn did. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2043 "2012-06-18T23:23:58Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > No it hasn’t. Anyway, I don’t engage with people who weasel, i.e. who misrepresent their own statements. In this case, you are misrepresenting the statements of people on your side of the debate, which is close enough. No I’m not. As I said, you’re too stupid to recognize them. > [@](#): > > Goodbye, liar. If this means you think you’re putting me on ignore, you can’t.😃 The downside is that I can’t put you on ignore. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2044 "2012-06-18T23:25:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You just said populations, not “races”. Populations that have evolved in the same areas facing similar population pressures can be called races. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2045 "2012-06-18T23:26:43Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Populations that have evolved in the same areas facing similar population pressures can be called races. Ok, so there are upwards of 600 races or more, and they are all far more closely related to each other than animal subspecies. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2046 "2012-06-18T23:28:11Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Where is there a black majority country with a representative democracy, a high standard of living, and a low crime rate? Until 60 years ago, where was the “Oriental” country that had any of these? Apparently, “whites”, who under your classification are less intelligent and more prone to crime, achieved one earlier than the superior “Oriental” cultures, which required intervention by Western countries to achieve all those things. And it’s still not even true for China, which represents a huge portion of the human population and is the predominant example of “Orientals” under your classification. You can’t even make your own asinine theory match the real world in your own examples. > [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Populations that have evolved in the same areas facing similar population pressures can be called races. Since, according to you, populations can evolve in less than 200 years, that means “Virginian” is now a race? Wow. Just wow. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2047 "2012-06-18T23:29:47Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Populations that have evolved in the same areas facing similar population pressures can be called races. By that criterion the “black race” doesn’t exist. There are a vast variety of drastically different environments in sub-Saharan Africa, from rainforests to deserts to temperate highlands. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2048 "2012-06-18T23:31:21Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Until 60 years ago, where was the “Oriental” country that had any of these? > > Apparently, “whites”, who under your classification are less intelligent and more prone to crime, achieved one earlier than the superior “Oriental” cultures, which required intervention by Western countries to achieve all those things. And it’s still not even true for China, which represents a huge portion of the human population and is the predominant example of “Orientals” under your classification. Further- supposedly inferior whites overwhelmingly dominated far older ancient civilizations like China in military conflicts in the past few centuries. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2049 "2012-06-18T23:34:47Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > it’s not plausible to me why intelligence (or agreeableness or whatever) would be a greater adaptive advantage in a “civilization” versus a hunter-gatherer society. Intelligence and cooperativeness should be just as advantageous for a hunter-gatherer as they would be for someone in an early city. It’s _always_ helpful for a human to be smart. Most human evolution happened during the paleolithic era, which existed for several million years. Intelligence was important. That is why by the beginning of the neolithic period in the Near East about ten thousand years ago humans everywhere in the world were more intelligent than our closest relatives, the chimpanzees. Nevertheless, a paleolithic existence requires a comparatively limited vocabulary. It does not require a knowledge of mathematics and writing. In a civilization those who can master these, and other kinds of knowledge usually live better than those who find these subjects difficult to learn. Consequently, during most of history they have been more prolific. Having a lot of children who usually die of malnutrition and disease does not matter for human evolution. Having a smaller number of children who survive and reproduce does matter. Another thing to consider is that fossil evidence of paleolithic humans, as well as accounts of paleolithic humans who continued a paleolithic way of life long enough to have their ways of life recorded by literate observers indicates that warfare was much more prevalent during the paleolithic era than it has been since. Consequently, we should expect races that emerged more recently from a paleolithic existence to have a higher rate of violent crime. They do. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2050 "2012-06-18T23:36:18Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Unlike those who flame both of us, brazil84 is courteous, articulate, and well informed. If he has responded in kind to the insults that have been thrown at him by those who cannot respond rationally to his arguments, I missed it. Actually if you \*\*do \*\*believe this after his clam ups, the “banning” of others, the gross ignorance and avoidance of clear examples were he has several times avoided the clear evidence that shows that he is wrong on global warming and other subjects, you are really just looking like an idiot for attempting to defending in such a lame way. And that is fine with me. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2051 "2012-06-18T23:39:49Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Since, according to you, populations can evolve in less than 200 years, that means “Virginian” is now a race? > > Wow. Just wow. To be fair, Virginia is for lovers, so they might be speeding things up. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2052 "2012-06-18T23:41:36Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Another thing to consider is that fossil evidence of paleolithic humans, as well as accounts of paleolithic humans who continued a paleolithic way of life long enough to have their ways of life recorded by literate observers indicates that warfare was much more prevalent during the paleolithic era than it has been since. By what measure? In the last century, wars wiped out tens of millions. What era has had even close to the same amount of death by violence? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2053 "2012-06-18T23:49:06Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Nevertheless, a paleolithic existence requires a comparatively limited vocabulary. It does not require a knowledge of mathematics and writing. In a civilization those who can master these, and other kinds of knowledge usually live better than those who find these subjects difficult to learn. Consequently, during most of history they have been more prolific. Until very recently, the vast majority of those who lived in “civilized” societies were illiterate and uneducated. And the illiterate and uneducated masses had the vast majority of offspring. Do you have any evidence that those who mastered mathematics and writing had more offspring then those who did not? ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2012, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2054 "2012-06-18T23:53:34Z")
To **Colibri** , from **Brazil**. I mean, _how cool is that?_ It’s like watching ‘The Weakest Link’ on TV, except on Opposite Day! ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2055 "2012-06-19T00:01:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Until very recently, the vast majority of those who lived in “civilized” societies were illiterate and uneducated. And the illiterate and uneducated masses had the vast majority of offspring. Do you have any evidence that those who mastered mathematics and writing had more offspring then those who did not? Civilizations have always had elites. Although social mobility varied from one nation to another it always existed, and there was always upward mobility for individuals of talent. Those in the elite were less likely to die from disease and much less likely to die from malnutrition and starvation. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2056 "2012-06-19T00:20:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > By what measure? In the last century, wars wiped out tens of millions. What era has had even close to the same amount of death by violence? War Before Civilization: the Myth of the Peaceful Savage (Oxford University Press, 1996) is a book by Lawrence H. Keeley, an archeology professor at the University of Illinois who specializes in prehistoric Europe. The book deals with warfare conducted throughout human history by societies with little technology… The attrition rate of numerous close-quarter clashes, which characterize warfare in tribal warrior society, produces casualty rates of up to 60%, compared to 1% of the combatants as is typical in modern warfare. Despite the undeniable carnage and effectiveness of modern warfare, the evidence shows that tribal warfare is on average 20 times more deadly than 20th century warfare, whether calculated as a percentage of total deaths due to war or as average deaths per year from war as a percentage of the total population.[citation needed] “Had the same casualty rate been suffered by the population of the twentieth century,” writes Nicholas Wade, “its war deaths would have totaled two billion people.”[1] In modern tribal societies, death rates from war are four to six times the highest death rates in 20th century Germany or Russia.[2]… One half of the people found in a Nubian cemetery dating to as early as 12,000 years ago had died of violence. The Yellowknives tribe in Canada was effectively obliterated by massacres committed by Dogrib Indians, and disappeared from history shortly thereafter.[citation needed] Similar massacres occurred among the Eskimos, the Crow Indians, and countless others. These mass killings occurred well before any contact with the West. In Arnhem Land in northern Australia, a study of warfare among the Indigenous Australian Murngin people in the late-19th century found that over a 20-year period no less than 200 out of 800 men, or 25% of all adult males, had been killed in intertribal warfare.[citation needed] The accounts of missionaries to the area in the borderlands between Brazil and Venezuela have recounted constant infighting in the Yanomami tribes for women or prestige, and evidence of continuous warfare for the enslavement of neighboring tribes such as the Macu before the arrival of European settlers and government. More than a third of the Yanomamo males, on average, died from warfare… The book was a finalist for the 1996 Los Angeles Times Book Prize for History.[5] > **[War Before Civilization](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Before_Civilization)** > > War Before Civilization: the Myth of the Peaceful Savage (Oxford University Press, 1996) is a book by Lawrence H. Keeley, a professor of archaeology at the University of Illinois at Chicago who specialized in prehistoric Europe. The book deals with warfare conducted throughout human history by societies with little technology. In the book, Keeley aims to stop the apparent trend in seeing modern civilization as bad, by setting out to prove that prehistoric societies were often violent and engage... ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2057 "2012-06-19T00:37:28Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Most human evolution happened during the paleolithic era, which existed for several million years. Intelligence was important. That is why by the beginning of the neolithic period in the Near East about ten thousand years ago humans everywhere in the world were more intelligent than our closest relatives, the chimpanzees. > > Nevertheless, a paleolithic existence requires a comparatively limited vocabulary. It does not require a knowledge of mathematics and writing. In a civilization those who can master these, and other kinds of knowledge usually live better than those who find these subjects difficult to learn. Consequently, during most of history they have been more prolific. > > Having a lot of children who usually die of malnutrition and disease does not matter for human evolution. Having a smaller number of children who survive and reproduce does matter. > > Another thing to consider is that fossil evidence of paleolithic humans, as well as accounts of paleolithic humans who continued a paleolithic way of life long enough to have their ways of life recorded by literate observers indicates that warfare was much more prevalent during the paleolithic era than it has been since. Consequently, we should expect races that emerged more recently from a paleolithic existence to have a higher rate of violent crime. They do. the northern European ancestors of most white Americans were quite primitive long after real civilizations had been established in the Mediterranean and Middle East. In fact, none of the advances you count as civilization originated in northern Europe. None. They mostly originated in the Middle East, and were then borrowed by Mediterranean Europeans to make further advances. Northern Europeans, by contrast, were extremely violent, and extremely primitive until very recently. Read the accounts by Arab travelers of the pagan Germanic peoples they encountered in the early middle ages. If you want to make the argument that modern day Italians and Greeks are more civilized by virtue of being descended from long lines of civilized people - I’m skeptical but you least have some grounds there. But your Viking (I’m assuming) ancestors were bloodthirsty marauders, at war with themselves, and with anyone within a few weeks sail, until relatively recently. I used to tease my college roommate about this - would you really feel better if the people burning down your village, slaughtering the men and boys and kidnapping your little sisters for slave concubines were white? Would that make your heart burst with white pride? ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2058 "2012-06-19T00:46:26Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > If you want to make the argument that modern day Italians and Greeks are more civilized by virtue of being descended from long lines of civilized people - I’m skeptical but you least have some grounds there. > > But your Viking (I’m assuming) ancestors were bloodthirsty marauders, at war with themselves, and with anyone within a few weeks sail, until relatively recently. I used to tease my college roommate about this - would you really feel better if the people burning down your village, slaughtering the men and boys and kidnapping your little sisters for slave concubines were white? Would that make your heart burst with white pride? Currently the Scandinavians have low crime rates. A possible explanation for the difference between now and 1,200 years ago is that the more aggressive males went on the raiding parties where most of them got killed, or settled elsewhere. The more peaceful males stayed home to tend the farm. Civilization began in Egypt and in what is now Iraq. Egypt has a low crime rate, despite a low standard of living. > **[List of countries by intentional homicide rate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate)** > > The list of countries by homicide rate is derived from United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC) data, and is expressed in number of deaths per 100,000 population per year. For example, a homicide rate of 30 out of 100,000 is presented in the table as "30", and corresponds to 0.03% of the population dying by homicide. The reliability of underlying national murder rate data may vary. Only UNODC-vetted data is used in the main table to maintain consistency. In some cases, i Homicide rates ... ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2059 "2012-06-19T01:47:29Z")
Hey, kids, it’s sing-a-long time! Why were you born so beautiful? Why were you born at all? You’re no fuckin’ use to anyone. You’re no fuckin’ use at all. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2060 "2012-06-19T02:51:42Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Civilization began in Egypt and in what is now Iraq. Egypt has a low crime rate, despite a low standard of living. [But Iraq doesn’t.](http://musingsoniraq.blogspot.com/2009/10/rising-crime-rate-in-iraq.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489.md?page=102) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489.md?page=104)