# SDMB Bigoted Asshole Omnibus Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 29, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489 "2012-05-29T22:59:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 109
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2161 "2012-06-19T17:08:33Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > By broaching trivial points you try to avoid looking at the big picture. The way you classify people (your “three races”) is **not** a trivial point. If your classification “system” is wrong (and the data shows that it is), then it becomes impossible to attribute certain genetic tendencies to one of these wrongly classified “races”. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2162 "2012-06-19T17:09:16Z")
[RationalWiki on eugenics:](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Eugenics) > [@](#): > > **The absurdity of eugenics** > > Eugenics is _not a valid science_ (just in case the pseudoscience sidebar didn’t tip you off). The most obvious flaw with eugenics is that it conflates phenotypical traits with genotypical traits. Even seemingly “fit” humans (or any species) may carry recessive traits that don’t exhibit themselves but will be passed on. > > While eugenics targeted more than just the “inferior” races (e.g., lower classes, the “feeble-minded,” and other assorted and alleged riff-raff), racial purity was very often an element in eugenecist works. Eugenics drew heavily from various racist and racialist tracts of the period. This concept of “purity” is also flawed in that it creates many of the same problems as inbreeding — a loss of biodiversity can in fact lead to increased susceptibility to disease. > > The extreme reductionism of eugenics often crossed into what is now comical territory. Nearly every social behavior, including things such as “pauperism” and the vaguely defined “feeble-mindedness,” could be traced back to a single gene according to eugenecists. Many works of eugenics recall the similar trend evident in phrenology (indeed, there was some overlap between eugenics and phrenology).[17] > > The development of the field of epigenetics, i.e. heritable environmental factors in genetic expression that occur without change to underlying DNA structures, poses further problems for eugenics. > > While eugenics gained widespread support in the early 20th century even within the scientific community of a number of nations, there was also strong opposition during this period.[18] The biologist Raymond Pearl, for example, once a supporter of the movement, turned against it in the late 1920s.[19] The geneticist Lancelot Hogben argued that eugenics relied on a false dichotomy of “nature vs. nurture” and that it infected science with political value judgments.[20] Clarence Darrow famously denounced it as a “cult.”[21] The Carnegie Institute, which initially funded the Eugenics Record Office, withdrew its funding after a review of its research, leading to its closing in 1939.[22] > > Stephen J. Gould was strongly opposed to eugenics. He wrote extensively on the topic, including his treatment on intelligence in _The Mismeasure of Man._ > > \ > > 17.↑ VL Hilts. Obeying the laws of hereditary descent: phrenological views on inheritance and eugenics. J Hist Behav Sci. 1982 Jan;18(1):62-77. > 18.↑ GE Allen. Eugenics and modern biology: critiques of eugenics, 1910-1945. Ann Hum Genet. 2011 May;75(3):314-25. > 19.↑ Raymond Pearl’s “Mingled Mess”, Johns Hopkins Magazine > 20.↑ Sahotra Sarkar. Lancelot Hogben, 1895-1975. Genetics, 142, 655-660 (March, 1996) > 21.↑ “The Eugenics Cult,” in Closing Arguments: Clarence Darrow on Religion, Law, and Society, ed. S.T. Joshi. [3] Reprint in Thoughts in a Haystack. > 22.↑ Eugenics in New York, University of Vermont ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2163 "2012-06-19T17:13:05Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Where is the evidence that blacks behave and perform as well as whites on the average? 😕 And you’re going to continue to ignore the data points out of the UK and Germany showing no achievement gap? When are you going to show (1) any evidence for your theory that also (2) corrects for socioeconomic factors? Is it going to take 50 years? 500 years? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2164 "2012-06-19T17:15:08Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > What do you have to say about cannibalism in Africa? This: OK, a missionary in Africa is captured by the natives, tied up, and plunked into a huge cauldron of water. (Which can’t exist without blast-furnace technology, but never mind that.) He thinks he’s doomed, until he sees one of the tribe – the chief, from his ornaments and headdress – kneeling by the pot with his head bowed and his hands clasped. The missionary asks, “Pardon me, brother, but are you by chance a Christian?” The chief looks up and snaps, “I certainly am! And please don’t interrupt me while I’m saying grace!” [rimshot] ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2165 "2012-06-19T17:25:34Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > The big picture is that whites and Orientals perform and behave better than all the other races on the average. You’re obviously not looking at all the data (a trend for you- you ignore any data contrary to your own hypotheses). According to the spreadsheets linked [here](http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/homicide.html), Senegal, Niger, and Mali have the same or lower murder rates than Indonesia and Myanmar. And socioeconomically, Indonesia and Myanmar are richer countries than those three African countries. So if I use your reasoning, southeast Asians must have a greater genetic tendency towards aggression and violence than Sahelian West African “blacks”. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2166 "2012-06-19T17:25:40Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > What do you have to say about cannibalism in Africa? I’d push aside this “Blood Libel” to ask you what you have to say about cannibalism outside Africa. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2167 "2012-06-19T17:28:41Z")
I just want to point out again that [this phylogenetic tree](http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v464/n7290/fig_tab/nature08976_F3.html)invalidates \*\*New Deal Democrat’s \*\*concept of “three main races” and of “blacks” as a race- it shows that many “black” African populations are closer to “white” and “Asian” populations than to other “black” populations. Forgive me for repeating myself. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2168 "2012-06-19T17:30:03Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > I’d push aside this “Blood Libel” to ask you what you have to say about cannibalism outside Africa. The “blood libel” is the assertion that Jews use the blood of Christian babies to make matzos. There has never been any evidence that Jews have ever done this. The Torah forbids the consumption of blood. Cannibalism has occasionally happened during the twentieth century outside of Africa as a response to starvation. It is far more prevalent in Africa as my post demonstrated. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2169 "2012-06-19T17:32:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I just want to point out again that [this phylogenetic tree](http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v464/n7290/fig_tab/nature08976_F3.html)invalidates \*\*New Deal Democrat’s \*\*concept of “three main races” and of “blacks” as a race- it shows that many “black” African populations are closer to “white” and “Asian” populations than to other “black” populations. Forgive me for repeating myself. Once again: Caucasians and Orientals perform and behave better on the average than all the other races. ---
**Author:** ![LeeshaJoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e8cbc/32.png) [@LeeshaJoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LeeshaJoy)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2170 "2012-06-19T17:34:17Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Once again: Caucasians and Orientals perform and behave better on the average than all the other races. Once again: this is not a universal truth, and you make yourself look more and more foolish the more times you repeat it. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2171 "2012-06-19T17:35:30Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > By broaching trivial points you try to avoid looking at the big picture. Trivial points? You are the person who is claiming that some never defined genetics define the crime rates, etc. And you make the assertion that your incoherent races that are only the tired restatements of the ideas of de Gobineau and others, explain these differences. But you just pretend for yourself. We have already seen that you first avoided even reading the citations - or if we are honest you looked at them and understood not one thing - and you could not even understand the “silly tree” showing the genetics, it was too hard for you. Magnificent. > [@](#): > > The big picture is that whites and Orientals perform and behave better than all the other races on the average. Et alors? So this Big Picture means that it is your Fable of Esope, since the Big Picture has no internal logic that is coherent. It is all fashioned for the argument of the moment. It is even impossible to respond to the idea of ‘Behave Better’ which has no objective meaning in any way. There is no coherence in your ideas, no standards at all, only your provincial hatreds political and ethnic that are boring. They have no coherence, there is not a big picture because you keep only making assertions on your prejudices and avoiding the contradictions, the refutations. We can look at this map from Wikipedia on murders: [File:Homicide-world.png - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Homicide-world.png) : You keep pretending there is an objective coherence to crime datas that allow you to assert there must be genetic reasons for this and that this data is so robust that it is necessary to make these conclusions. As ridiculous as this is, and it is very ridiculous, we look at this map and we must say that there is a Russian race that is very murderous, but is so strange because the Russians of the Europeans, they have the most ‘oriental in them’! They should be, by your Fables of Esope tales, the most well behaved!! And Senegal, it behaves well although there are not real white population there. And then we see here - because we must give utter confidence to the datas! - that there must be two races in Papau New Guineau! And they are Orientals who murder and behave badly. But this is of course a sub-race, these sub-races emerge so frequently to explain… except for the Bad Bad Blacks!!! No, if one is contamintated by the Black … except we have the Egyptians and the Moroccans with the low crime rates, and they are as we know from the genetic evidence, very contaminated by the Black! But by your logic they must be very criminal! Because they have a population with percentages of persons of “black” descent that is even higher than your America situation. And you have abandoned your Negroe explanations with your ignorant usages of Bantu? > [@](#): > > That can be explained by the biological histories of the various races, sub races, and hybrid races. The fewer generations separate a race from stone age savagery, the more savage that race behaves. Aha, thus we must conclude the Russian Race has emerged from the Stone Age later than the populations of Senegal, since they This we can laugh at, even as you return to your Lysenkoiste approach that has no basis in science. And it is magnificent to see how you create ad hoc the sub races, the hybrid races, all based on the sociological categories of america. These are the wonderful objective concepts that would be so innovative in 1830. > [@](#): > > What do you have to say about cannibalism in Africa? What would I say about a cannibalism? What is the cannibalism you refer to? The movies of Tarzan you have seen and think are documentaries? Or crimes committed (in the light of your Mr Dahmer)? > [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Where is the evidence that blacks behave and perform as well as whites on the average? 😕 What is the genetic evidence that The Blacks category has any genetic sense? What is the definition of Behave? What is the definition of Behave Well? > [@](#): > > Because that evidence does not exist, when will it? Another fifty years? Another five hundred years? 😕 You again make these funny assertions although all you base your comments on are American problems and politics. It is in some fashion, pitiful. > [@Who\_me\_1](#): > > Where’s the evidence that any of this is genetic? I think that comes before anyone providing evidence to counter what has not, as yet, been proven. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2172 "2012-06-19T17:40:46Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Once again: Caucasians and Orientals perform and behave better on the average than all the other races. Which has nothing to do with your hypothesis. No one is arguing about the existence of an achievement gap. You have zero evidence for a genetic explanation. And your definitions of “race” fail on multiple levels. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2173 "2012-06-19T17:45:52Z")
Waaaait a minute…I just came up with the perfect answer here. Ready? Here we go. -I am white. -Therefore, I am predicted to be smarter than average. -Yet I am still participating in this thread. -Therefore, NDD’s thesis is proven to be invalid. QED. We can shut the thread now. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2174 "2012-06-19T17:46:07Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You’re obviously not looking at all the data (a trend for you- you ignore any data contrary to your own hypotheses). According to the spreadsheets linked [here](http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/data-and-analysis/homicide.html), Senegal, Niger, and Mali have the same or lower murder rates than Indonesia and Myanmar. And socioeconomically, Indonesia and Myanmar are richer countries than those three African countries. So if I use your reasoning, southeast Asians must have a greater genetic tendency towards aggression and violence than Sahelian West African “blacks”. I have been making this point for many many pages. Of course, it is funny as in the Sahel, they consider themselves of superior race to the people of the Coast and this is very ancient. Although I have connection to this, it is only prejudice. > [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > And you’re going to continue to ignore the data points out of the UK and Germany showing no achievement gap? > > When are you going to show (1) any evidence for your theory that also (2) corrects for socioeconomic factors? Is it going to take 50 years? 500 years? 😕 Until the persons of this primitive and tribal mentality die. His manner of thinking and incapacity to accept science reminds me of the Peul who claim their racial superiority over the short coastal peoples because they accepted Islam very early and they had empires. > [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > …Cannibalism has occasionally happened during the twentieth century outside of Africa as a response to starvation. It is far more prevalent in Africa as my post demonstrated. You have shown nothing, but it is very funny you make these statements as the most documented cases of systematic cannibalism are recorded in \*\*Asia \*\*into the 20th century. It is very sad, truly, how much you display your provincialism and ignorance and that you have taken your ideas from the movies of Tarzan. > [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Once again: Caucasians and Orientals perform and behave better on the average than all the other races. Yes, we know that is your belief. It is a belief that is boring and merely based on your provincialism. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2175 "2012-06-19T17:52:34Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > The “blood libel” is the assertion that Jews use the blood of Christian babies to make matzos. There has never been any evidence that Jews have ever done this. The Torah forbids the consumption of blood. > > Cannibalism has occasionally happened during the twentieth century outside of Africa as a response to starvation. It is far more prevalent in Africa as my post demonstrated. Calling/depicting Africans cannibals is akin to the “Blood libel” of Jews. As Jews do not engage in any ritualized blood ingestion, Africans don’t consume human meat. Your careful avoidance to comparing cannibalism in places not located in Africa to those within betrays your “open mind”. In fact, your use of “savages”, “cannibals” and whatnot as slurs should be grounds for banning IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2176 "2012-06-19T17:54:51Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Once again: Caucasians and Orientals perform and behave better on the average than all the other races. Since everyone is quoting this, I thought I would as well. I believe that no one has translated this from NDD-Speak. I will do this now. **Once again: Us white folks and those people in Japan and China behave more like I think people should. Those black people do all kinds of bad stuff like having sex out of wedlock and cursing and stuff…** ::Takes bow::: Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2177 "2012-06-19T17:55:46Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Cannibalism has occasionally happened during the twentieth century outside of Africa as a response to starvation. It is far more prevalent in Africa as my post demonstrated. There were several (well-documented) tribes in Papua/New Guinea that practiced cannibalism well into the 20th century and not as a response to starvation and still at least one tribe that practices it to this day (again, not as a response to starvation). I know it’s too late to expect you to get basic facts straight, but hope springs eternal, I suppose. And, as will be pointed out once again, what the bloody fuck does this have to do with genetics? If you want to go on a racial tirade, go ahead. But don’t try to justify it with laughably bad science. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2178 "2012-06-19T18:02:50Z")
> [@orcenio](#): > > Calling/depicting Africans cannibals is akin to the “Blood libel” of Jews. As Jews do not engage in any ritualized blood ingestion, Africans don’t consume human meat. Yes, I agree, this accusation of Africa as a centre of cannibalism, it is very much like the blood libel against the Jews. It has the same sense, it has the same intentions. > [@](#): > > Your careful avoidance to comparing cannibalism in places not located in Africa to those within betrays your “open mind”. In fact, your use of “savages”, “cannibals” and whatnot as slurs should be grounds for banning IMO. For the first time I have sympathy here, although I do not believe in banning and I dislike greatly the calls for it when there are political disagreements as is very often the situation. It is very difficult to believe these are honest opinions. I have said in reply to other calls for banning that I was against this, but this blood libel, it is actually too much. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2179 "2012-06-19T18:13:23Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > I do not make appeals to emotion. Those who flame me for telling the truth reveal how hateful they are. We’re just sick of debating with you, because you don’t go about it honestly. You absolutely refuse to address points that completely destroy you, instead focusing on personal attacks (this is the Pit, remember) and people pointing out that you’re a lying sack of pig shit. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2012, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2180 "2012-06-19T18:22:04Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > I do not make appeals to emotion. Those who flame me for telling the truth reveal how hateful they are. You’re stupid and you have a tiny penis. There are in fact some things I do hate. I’ve got no problem with that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489.md?page=108) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489.md?page=110)