# SDMB Bigoted Asshole Omnibus Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 29, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489 "2012-05-29T22:59:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 122
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2423 "2012-06-22T18:49:49Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Your attempts to rank and rate and classify and order everybody neatly by genetics just keeps getting more and more complicated, huh? Please show me where I attempted to “rank and rate and classify and order everybody neatly by genetics.” Please quote me. Failing that, please admit that I did no such thing and apologize. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2424 "2012-06-22T18:52:45Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Your attempts to rank and rate and classify and order everybody neatly by genetics just keeps getting more and more complicated, huh? DNA tests can not only determine a person’s race, they can determine which countries one’s ancestors came from. > **[AncestryDNA | DNA Tests for Ethnicity & Genealogy DNA Test](https://www.ancestry.com/dna/)** > > AncestryDNA is the newest DNA test which helps you find genetic relatives and expand your genealogy research. Order your DNA test kit today. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2425 "2012-06-22T18:58:27Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > DNA tests can not only determine a person’s race, they can determine which countries one’s ancestors came from. > > [http://dna.ancestry.com/](http://dna.ancestry.com/) Sure, and you can name a star after somebody too! How about a cite from somebody not trying to sell something? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2426 "2012-06-22T19:07:22Z")
The willful blindness burns. For literally weeks now, several posters have said that population genetics are meaningful but grouping sub-Saharan Africans into a single genetically related race has little biological reality or significance. And yet still NDD can’t understand how his own sites contradict that. Let me put it another way: Being able to tell what country somebody’s ancestors comes from CONTRADICTS the notion of 3 (or 4) unified races. It means there are as many “races” as there are countries, which is a different point altogether. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2427 "2012-06-22T19:28:29Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Please quote me. Failing that, please admit that I did no such thing and apologize. Drink! ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2428 "2012-06-22T19:31:13Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > What’s unfair about the government spending money to raise the performance of children in underachieving schools? It depends what kind of affirmative action we’re talking about. If it’s just a matter of spending more on underachieving schools then I have no problem with that. It might be unrealistic to think you can make all schools equal in performance, but you’ll probably get more students over the bar. That kind of thing wouldn’t even be considered AA in europe. I meant setups where students from different ethnic groups, genders or even religious backgrounds have different entry or even pass requirements. > [@](#): > > Well do you have any evidence that this is the mindset of folks like NDD? I’ve said several times now why I believe NDD’s choice of words betrays what his actual motivation is and just why he’s fixated on race. If you’re asking me do I have _proof_ of NDD’s motivations…surprisingly the answer is no. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2429 "2012-06-22T19:33:48Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > DNA tests can not only determine a person’s race, they can determine which countries one’s ancestors came from. > > [http://dna.ancestry.com/](http://dna.ancestry.com/) So what? ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2430 "2012-06-22T19:36:06Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Please show me where I attempted to “rank and rate and classify and order everybody neatly by genetics.” Please quote me. Failing that, please admit that I did no such thing and apologize. I believe that sums up your beliefs. If I’m confused, simply state that you believe it’s not possible to rank and rate and classify and order everybody neatly by genetics, in a direct quote, here. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2431 "2012-06-22T19:40:30Z")
Failing that, please pull the stick out of your ass and apologize. Sorry, **lance** , I thought it needed a little more. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2432 "2012-06-22T19:43:31Z")
Sorry, **jack** , did you say something? You’ll have to speak in larger type. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2433 "2012-06-22T19:46:47Z")
Do not worry, \*\*84 is welll known for his strange behaviours: \*\* > [@I pit brazil84 for: his rules of debate; "quote me"; bailing out. (Nothing new under the sun)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-brazil84-for-his-rules-of-debate-quote-me-bailing-out-nothing-new-under-the-sun/590687/1): > > Some of you are aware of the poster brazil84, and the fact that > > [ul] > [li][he has his own set of debating rules](http://brazil84.wordpress.com/my-rules-of-debate/)[/li][li]he is often vague about, or evades specifying which propositions he’s arguing[/li][li]but he usually, by appearances, has an agenda[/li][li]he has a catch phrase: “Show me where I said that. Quote me.”; and[/li][li]that he at any time may decide that you haven’t abided by his rules and bid adieu (in the jollyest of ways).[/li][/ul] > > He’s a huge dick. > > [My current gripe.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=14076802&posted=1#post14076802) > [@I Accuse What Exit of Being a Liar](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-accuse-what-exit-of-being-a-liar/478352/13): > > My, what a Special Little Princess you are, to be sure! It must really power pack even MORE sand into your vagina when you spend so very much time [dictating the rules](http://brazil84.wordpress.com/2008/08/18/rules-of-engagement/) for everybody else, yet we chaotic elements (read: “everybody else”) simply refuse to pay any mind to your shrill, panty twisting, footstomping mandates. Any Princess less Special than yourself would, perhaps, have figured out by now that possibly it is you who are out of step with the world rather than the converse, but that’s why you have the Mostest Speciallest Little Pink Princess Short Bus to ride to school in, wearing your matching helmet. I sure hope somebody’s planning on giving you a year’s supply of matching frilly hankies with which to wipe the drool from your chin for Christmas, because that would SO complete the outfit. > > [Moran.](http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/moran-7512.jpg) > > [Oh yeah, and this.](http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h16/smartaleq/bigcupSTFU.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2434 "2012-06-22T19:53:13Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > It depends what kind of affirmative action we’re talking about. If it’s just a matter of spending more on underachieving schools then I have no problem with that. Well there you go. The best argument against NCLB-type programs is that they are futile. The “fairness” argument doesn’t really hold water. > [@](#): > > I meant setups where students from different ethnic groups, genders or even religious backgrounds have different entry or even pass requirements. So what? We’re talking about all policies which are based on the false assumption that disparities in performance are the result of discrimination or mistreatment. Not just affirmative action. > [@](#): > > I’ve said several times now why I believe NDD’s choice of words betrays what his actual motivation is and just why he’s fixated on race. Can you give me an example? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2435 "2012-06-22T19:55:02Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > I believe that sums up your beliefs. But you can’t provide any quotes to justify it. Sorry, but I have no interest in engaging with people who misrepresent my position. Goodbye. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2436 "2012-06-22T19:58:12Z")
What? No “Goodbye, _ **Liar** _”? That doesn’t count for a drink, for those playing along home. What a rip-off. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2437 "2012-06-22T20:03:47Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > But you can’t provide any quotes to justify it. Sorry, but I have no interest in engaging with people who misrepresent my position. > > Goodbye. I’m not going to do a dissertation summarizing what you’ve said here. It’s there. You can simply tell me I’m wrong by stating what I asked. Just tell me I’m wrong. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2438 "2012-06-22T20:06:01Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Do not worry, \*\*84 is welll known for his strange behaviours: I like this part of his debating rules: “For example, if you believe I have misrepresented your position, you should tell me so and give me a chance to correct any misinterpretation. I will do the same for you.” So tell me how I’ve misrepresented your position, 84. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2439 "2012-06-22T20:51:10Z")
> [@New Deal Democrat](#): > > Consequently, race profiling is an appropriate way for the police to proactively reduce the crime rate. Not according to conditional probability. We can roughly work out how likely it is that a criminal will be a black person, but the required information is how likely a specific black person is to be a criminal. Race may not be a salient factor even with large disparities and the NYPD have dismissed its use for stop and frisks. > [@brazil84](#): > > Despite a lot of efforts to “close the gap.” Yeah, like [desegregation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jim_Crow_laws_by_State). Except rates of illiteracy have been [steadily declining](http://nces.ed.gov/naal/lit_history.asp). > [@brazil84](#): > > If a few large groups of blacks start performing as well as whites. Which fails as a scientific hypothesis, because you have not defined your term “blacks” in a consistent manner, nor have you defined “large groups”. Not to mention the existence of extraneous variables prevent this from ever being credence scientifically. > [@brazil84](#): > > Do you believe that historical treatment (of blacks) leading up to the present accounts for the achievement gap? You’re shifting the goalposts. I almost believe you volitionally introduced Haiti as an example, anticipating the fact that it was a particularly ignorant choice, in order to pursue this red herring. Do you retract this claim: > [@brazil84](#): > > Good thing the blacks in Haiti don’t have whitey keeping them down. ? As it stands, I’ve also proposed a mechanism which accounts for some [portion](http://psycnet.apa.org/?&fa=main.doiLanding&doi=10.1037/0022-3514.69.5.797) of the attainment gap even when controlling for other environmental factors. > [@lance strongarm](#): > > Neil Degrasse Tyson is laughing at all of us idiots. This is a poor argument based on a hasty generalisation. Neil DeGrasse Tyson could be the smartest man in the world and if intelligence testing measured a coherent concept _g_, then the black mean for _g_ could still be significantly lower than that for thewhite population. > [@brazil84](#): > > I don’t know a thing about rugby. And yet I am very confident that in a rugby match between a professional rugby team and an average high school rugby team, the professionals would win. Would you place the professional rugby team into a different genetic group to the average rugby team and claim such groupings were immutable and had historic precedence? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2440 "2012-06-22T20:54:57Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > But height, as already noted, is an easily determined, quantifiable dimension of our phenotypes. You can easily determine who is taller just by looking, as easily as you can tell who is darker skinned. > > That’s all fine and dandy, however, if you then assert that taller people are faster swimmers than shorter people, I’m going to have to ask for some more rigorous observation and study to substatiate your claims. > > If you tell me darker skin has some genetic factor correlated to lower intelligence, this is an _exponentially_ more complicated situation that would require substantial evidence in no less a rigorous study than the Scientific Method. > > **b84** and **NDD** have not employed and continue to vehemently ignore scientific evidence, tme and time again. Furthermore, they have less and less ground to argue their ill conceived notions on and resort to using overly-simplistic metaphors and equivocation that just doesn’t apply to the discussion at hand in the slightest. That’s fair. But it seems the fundamental objection (which seems reasonable to me) is that intelligence is so difficult to measure. But while it may be different to measure than say, height or skin color, it a perfectly sound possibility that different races might have different levels of intelligence, just as they might have different levels of melanin or tend to be taller or shorter. Is that right? ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2441 "2012-06-22T21:11:19Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > That’s fair. But it seems the fundamental objection (which seems reasonable to me) is that intelligence is so difficult to measure. But while it may be different to measure than say, height or skin color, it a perfectly sound possibility that different races might have different levels of intelligence, just as they might have different levels of melanin or tend to be taller or shorter. Is that right? It’s a possibility, which nobody has denied. What has been consistently denied (repeatedly and vehemently) is the idea that there is already genetic evidence of this possibility. Or even any studies that show the slightest hint of a correlation. Of course, one reason such studies don’t exist is that, genetically, “blacks”, “whites”, “Mongoloids” aren’t properly defined, by NDD or anybody else. Further, even accepting we use population level genetics, the concept of 3 races (+Aboriginal Australians) that NDD espouses doesn’t make much sense. Even NDD has to make some convolutions to make it work (by splitting “Mongoloids” into “Orientals”/others, for example). And it ignores the fact that even among the “black” race, there are significant differences in genetics (even in melanin levels) such that intelligence would end up being the only thing all “blacks” had in common genetically if such a correlation was found. The entire argument fails on so many different levels that it requires a convoluted set of premises to state and necessarily has multiple exceptions for cases that don’t fit. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2442 "2012-06-22T22:59:52Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > **b84** and **NDD** have not employed and continue to vehemently ignore scientific evidence, tme and time again. Furthermore, they have less and less ground to argue their ill conceived notions on and resort to using overly-simplistic metaphors and equivocation that just doesn’t apply to the discussion at hand in the slightest. DNA testing can not only demonstrate ancestry in Europe or in North East Asia, it can tell which countries there a person’s ancestors came from. Those with European and North East Asian ancestry average higher IQs than the rest of the world. Right now I am including the Ashkenazim as European whites, but much of their ancestry comes from Israel three thousand years ago. I have repeated this many times. There is nothing “overly simplistic” about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489.md?page=121) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489.md?page=123)