# SDMB Bigoted Asshole Omnibus Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 29, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489 "2012-05-29T22:59:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 133
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2643 "2012-06-26T20:05:56Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > (Your new position is equally wrong, since intelligence does not necessarily imply general superiority.) According to NDD, it does. ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2644 "2012-06-26T20:10:26Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > I do not believe that every black person is less intelligent than every white person. I do believe that average differences between the races are due primarily to genetic differences. If, by your definition of “racist” that makes me a racist, I do not care, because it is obviously true. It always has been obvious. The failure of No Child Left Behind provides fresh evidence of innate racial differences. You claim that you’re “only talking about averages” and not individuals, but your own arguments betray your true beliefs. When asked about Barack Obama’s intelligence, you did _not_ state that he is an outlier and is a black person who just happens to be more intelligent than the (low) black average. Instead, you said that his intelligence is due to his white ancestry. This shows that you actually believes _all_ blacks are less intelligent (not just on average), and that any superior abilities a black individual displays must be due to partial white ancestry. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2645 "2012-06-26T20:22:43Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Looks like (unsurprisingly) you are unable to back up your claim. > > You are weaseling. (Your new position is equally wrong, since intelligence does not necessarily imply general superiority.) > > Anyway, I don’t engage with people who strawman me, i.e. people who misrepresent my position. Nor do I engage with people who weasel, i.e. change their own position without acknowledging it. I strongly disagree, I’ve been pretty firm on my position, that _ **you are a fucking-retarded-idiotic-stupid-narrow minded-moron!!!** _ I haven’t changed my mind about that. Neither did I put out any statement to the contrary. a) You are a racist b) You practice racism c) You are a fucking-retarded-idiotic-stupid-narrow minded-moron!!! > [@brazil84](#): > > Nor do I engage with people who weasel, i.e. change their own position without acknowledging it. Looks like, you better not engage with yourself then. **You weaselling-fucking-retarded-idiotic-stupid-narrow minded-moron!!!** ---
**Author:** ![Waenara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/50afbb/32.png) [@Waenara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waenara)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2646 "2012-06-26T20:28:25Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > You have done both. Welcome to my ignore list. > > Goodbye, liar. Ah **Doughbag** , welcome to the illustrious group that is **braindead84** ’s Ignore List. Truly, a distinguished list. Why, just in this thread alone he has “banned” [Vinyl Turnip](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15122875&postcount=391), [iiandyiiii](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15145018&postcount=1080), [cmyk](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15174533&postcount=1711), [Colibiri](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15181555&postcount=2036), [Ramira](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15194531&postcount=2359), [kidchameleon](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15206926&postcount=2510), [Waenara](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15207952&postcount=2516), and [Doughboy](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15210072&postcount=2642). If there’s anyone I missed, I apologize. I just searched for him saying “goodbye, liar”. I know he says he’s not listening because I’m on his Ignore list - but FYI, if you need to “ban” so many people for “misinterpreting” or “strawmanning” or “weasling”, perhaps it’s time to consider that if the whole world says you’re a crazy, racist, partisan loon, perhaps you are. And if you think nearly everyone is “misinterpreting” your posts, perhaps you should ponder your own reading comprehension and communication abilities. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2647 "2012-06-26T20:42:15Z")
> [@Waenara](#): > > I know he says he’s not listening because I’m on his Ignore list - but FYI, if you need to “ban” so many people for “misinterpreting” or “strawmanning” or “weasling”, perhaps it’s time to consider that if the whole world says you’re a crazy, racist, partisan loon, perhaps you are. And if you think nearly everyone is “misinterpreting” your posts, perhaps you should ponder your own reading comprehension and communication abilities. He’s not really “ignoring” anyone- he’s slipped a few times and responded. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2648 "2012-06-26T20:45:32Z")
> [@Waenara](#): > > Ah **Doughbag** , welcome to the illustrious group that is **braindead84** ’s Ignore List. Waenara, you see,\*\* IT (brazil\*\*) is a very sad little individual, that feel misinterpreted due to\*\* It’s\*\* weird and changing reasoning on: Why Black people are dumber, inferior and prone to act much more on their primal instincts and **It’s** believe in racism. **IT** cannot find any proof, but\*\* IT\*\*’s own opinion, which only other nut jobs share. ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2649 "2012-06-26T20:46:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > He’s not really “ignoring” anyone- he’s slipped a few times and responded. He’s certainly ignoring REASON ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2650 "2012-06-26T20:49:38Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > I do not care if insults are allowed the BBQ Pit. I do not post them. I post facts and logical reasoning. [Opening Theme Music] Hey everybody, it’s your host Crispin Casper, are you ready to play Wheel of Insults?! [Audience cheers] Fantastic! Our first contested is New Deal Democrat. NDD, Step on up to the Wheel! NDD: Boy howdy! Tell us a little about yourself… NDD: Well, I like fallacies, I’m a White Supremisist, I hate liberals and science, but really I just love to hate. Fantastic! Now, NDD, turn around and give that ginormous Wheel a pull. Remember, if you land on “Negro”, we have the grips take you out back and shoot you. And why do we do that? [Audience in unison: Because it means he’s stupid!] Ha ha! That’s right. Ok, NDD, Are. You. Ready? Yes I am, Crispin! Then, ROLL. THAT. WHEEL! NDD: fehh… [The Wheel spins in a blur] Ok, NDD, Shes slowing down! Asshole… Dipshit… Mutherfucker… [Audience oooohs with anticipation] …Dickhole… Cuntwad… Cannibalistic Savages… Oriental… Oh dear lord, this is intense… Aaand it’s… [clink] Negro! [Audience cheers] I’m sorry NDD, but you’ve busted! Clearly you’re stupid because you happened to land on Negro completely by chance. Almost as if you were born that way and into the ghetto with poor education standards. The Wheel doent lie, it’s all facts. Tell him what the consolation prize is, Gerry. “NDD’s family gets the Wheel of Insults Home Game and a spade and neuter kit to make sure his family’s genes aren’t passed down to future generations. Wouldn’t want to pass that stupid on!” Nope, certainly wouldn’t, Gerry! My oh my. Okay, NDD, just follow Darryl there, with the hoodie, he’ll take you out back and wipe you right out of the gene pool. [audience is roaring with excitement] NDD: B-but… Alright, Gerry, who’s our next contestant? “He loves Orwellian films and literature, owns an Oxford English Dictionary, and loves to ignore people by sticking his fingers in his ears…” ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2651 "2012-06-26T21:03:46Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > … > … > > NDD: B-but… > > Alright, Gerry, who’s our next contestant? > > “He loves Orwellian films and literature, owns an Oxford English Dictionary, and loves to ignore people by sticking his fingers in his ears…” [Audience cheers] It’s Brazil… [audience is roaring with excitement] Fantastic! Our second contested is Brazil84. Bra, Step on up to the Wheel! Brazil: Howdy Do dai! Tell us a little about yourself… Brazil: Well, I’m a bit slow, I’m a White Supremisist, I hate liberals and science, but really I just don’t have a clue. I’m just a retarded moron. … … … bang! bang! ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2652 "2012-06-26T21:03:49Z")
> [@Waenara](#): > > Ah **Doughbag** , welcome to the illustrious group that is **braindead84** ’s Ignore List. Truly, a distinguished list. Why, just in this thread alone he has “banned” [Vinyl Turnip](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15122875&postcount=391), [iiandyiiii](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15145018&postcount=1080), [cmyk](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15174533&postcount=1711), [Colibiri](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15181555&postcount=2036), [Ramira](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15194531&postcount=2359), [kidchameleon](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15206926&postcount=2510), [Waenara](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15207952&postcount=2516), and [Doughboy](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15210072&postcount=2642). > > If there’s anyone I missed, I apologize. I just searched for him saying “goodbye, liar”. I believe he cannot put Colibri on his ignore list with him being a moderator, so he just gets to be an honorary member. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2653 "2012-06-26T21:19:55Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > Except the low crime of the Senegal? According to UN Office on Drugs and Crime, UN Survey of Crime Trends, at [http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/IHS-rates-05012009.pdf](http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/IHS-rates-05012009.pdf). in 2004 the murder rate per 100,000 inhabitants in Senegal was 14.2. In the United States it was 5.9. > **[Senegal vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats](https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/Senegal/United-States/Crime)** > > Murder rate per million people, Rape rate, Guns per 100 residents, Murder rate, Rapes per million people and 19 More Interesting Facts and Stats ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2654 "2012-06-26T21:26:45Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > According to UN Office on Drugs and Crime, UN Survey of Crime Trends, at [http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/IHS-rates-05012009.pdf](http://www.unodc.org/documents/data-and-analysis/IHS-rates-05012009.pdf). > > in 2004 the murder rate per 100,000 inhabitants in Senegal was 14.2. In the United States it was 5.9. > > [Senegal vs United States Crime Stats Compared](http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Senegal/United-States/Crime) You are misrepresenting the data. Your cite provides two wildly different estimates- 1.1 per 100,000 and 14.2. You really need to look at your own cites more. Obviously they can’t both be true. According to [this](http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/faculty/rwinslow/africa/senegal.html), using INTERPOL data, the murder rate in Senegal in 2000 was 0.33 per 100,000- lower even than Japan. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2655 "2012-06-26T21:28:26Z")
From[this](http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/countries-with-lowest-murder-rates.html), several West African countries have murder rates among the lowest in the world. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2656 "2012-06-26T21:33:10Z")
The thing is, NDD, that to you it doesn’t matter what the data shows. Because of your hatred, \*you’ve already decided \*that black people are stupid and violent. To you, if data shows anything different (like Senegal’s murder rate, or the Nigerian immigrants, or studies that in various countries show no achievement gap), it must be the data that’s wrong. You’ve shown that you’re incapable of altering your thinking to fit the preponderance of data. It’s _your thinking_ that is rigid- so the data must be altered to fit your thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2657 "2012-06-26T21:35:31Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You are misrepresenting the data. Your cite provides two wildly different estimates- 1.1 per 100,000 and 14.2. You really need to look at your own cites more. Obviously they can’t both be true. > > According to [this](http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/faculty/rwinslow/africa/senegal.html), using INTERPOL data, the murder rate in Senegal in 2000 was 0.33 per 100,000- lower even than Japan. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > From[this](http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/countries-with-lowest-murder-rates.html), several West African countries have murder rates among the lowest in the world. But we have seen many times that only negative data is black, otherwise there must be a sub race. Of course all the crime data is has no sense in this discussion, the only utility is to highlight that it is his political objectives and not scientific thinking that drives him, and that he ignores or invents otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2658 "2012-06-26T21:53:27Z")
To continue to illustrate how NDD hides from genetic facts and makes assertions that have no thing to do with the science: > **[Polymorphic Alu insertions and genetic diversity among African populations -...](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16596946/)** > > Thorough assessment of modern genetic diversity and interpopulation affinities within the African continent is essential for understanding the processes that have been at work during the course of worldwide human evolution. Regardless of whether... > [@](#): > > [Hum Biol.](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16596946#) 2005 Oct;77(5):675-704. > **Polymorphic Alu insertions and genetic diversity among African populations.** > > [Terreros MC](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Terreros%20MC%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=16596946), [Martinez L](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Martinez%20L%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=16596946), [Herrera RJ](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Herrera%20RJ%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=16596946). > **Source** > > Department of Biological Sciences, Florida International University, University Park, Miami, FL 33199, USA. > > **Abstract** > > Thorough assessment of modern genetic diversity and interpopulation affinities within the African continent is essential for understanding the processes that have been at work during the course of worldwide human evolution. Regardless of whether autosomal, Y-chromosome, or mtDNA markers are used, allele- or haplotype-frequency data from African populations are necessary in setting the framework for the construction of global population phylogenies. In the present study we analyze genetic differentiation and population structure in a data set of nine African populations using 12 polymorphic Alu insertions (PAls). Furthermore, to place our findings within a global context, we also examined an equal number of non-African groups. **Frequency data from 456 individuals presented for the first time in this work plus additional data obtained from the literature indicate an overall pattern of higher intrapopulation diversity in sub-Saharan populations than in northern Africa, a prominent differentiation between these two locations, an appreciably high degree of transcontinental admixture in Egypt, and significant discontinuity between Morocco and the Iberian peninsula.** Moreover, the topologies of our phylogenetic analyses suggest that out of the studied sub-Saharan groups, the southern Bantu population of Sotho/ Tswana presents the highest level of antiquity, perhaps as a result of ancestral or acquired Khoisan genetic signals. \*\*Close affinities of eastern sub-Saharan populations with Egypt in the phylogenetic trees \*\*may indicate the existence of gene flow along the Nile River. Or > **[Genomic Ancestry of North Africans Supports Back-to-Africa Migrations](https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3257290/?tool=pubmed)** > > North African populations are distinct from sub-Saharan Africans based on cultural, linguistic, and phenotypic attributes; however, the time and the extent of genetic divergence between populations north and south of the Sahara remain poorly ... > [@](#): > > PLoS Genet. 2012 January; 8(1): e1002397. Published online 2012 January 12. doi: [10.1371/journal.pgen.1002397](http://dx.crossref.org/10.1371%2Fjournal.pgen.1002397) > PMCID: PMC3257290 > **Genomic Ancestry of North Africans Supports Back-to-Africa Migrations** > > [“]Brenna M. Henn]([http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=search&db=PubMed&term=%20Henn%2BBM](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=search&db=PubMed&term=%20Henn%2BBM)[auth),#1 ["]Laura R. Botigué](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=search&db=PubMed&term=%20Botigu%26%23x000e9%3B%2BLR%5Bauth),#2 [”]Simon Gravel]([http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=search&db=PubMed&term=%20Gravel%2BS](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=search&db=PubMed&term=%20Gravel%2BS)[auth),1 ["]Wei Wang](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=search&db=PubMed&term=%20Wang%2BW%5Bauth),3 [“]Abra Brisbin]([http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=search&db=PubMed&term=%20Brisbin%2BA](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=search&db=PubMed&term=%20Brisbin%2BA)[auth),3 ["]Jake K. Byrnes](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=search&db=PubMed&term=%20Byrnes%2BJK%5Bauth),1 [”]Karima Fadhlaoui-Zid]([http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=search&db=PubMed&term=%20Fadhlaoui-Zid%2BK](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=search&db=PubMed&term=%20Fadhlaoui-Zid%2BK)[auth),4 ["]Pierre A. Zalloua](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=search&db=PubMed&term=%20Zalloua%2BPA%5Bauth),5 [“]Andres Moreno-Estrada]([http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=search&db=PubMed&term=%20Moreno-Estrada%2BA](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=search&db=PubMed&term=%20Moreno-Estrada%2BA)[auth),1 ["]Jaume Bertranpetit](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=search&db=PubMed&term=%20Bertranpetit%2BJ%5Bauth),2 [”]Carlos D. Bustamante]([http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=search&db=PubMed&term=%20Bustamante%2BCD](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=search&db=PubMed&term=%20Bustamante%2BCD)[auth),1,¶\* and ["]David Comas](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=search&db=PubMed&term=%20Comas%2BD%5Bauth)2,¶\* > > Author information ► Article notes ► Copyright and License information ► > > This article has been [cited by](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257290/citedby/) other articles in PMC. > [Go to:](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257290/?tool=pubmed#ui-ncbiinpagenav-2) > **Abstract** > > North African populations are distinct from sub-Saharan Africans based on cultural, linguistic, and phenotypic attributes; however, the time and the extent of genetic divergence between populations north and south of the Sahara remain poorly understood. Here, we interrogate the multilayered history of North Africa by characterizing the effect of hypothesized migrations from the Near East, Europe, and sub-Saharan Africa on current genetic diversity. We present dense, genome-wide SNP genotyping array data (730,000 sites) from seven North African populations, spanning from Egypt to Morocco, and one Spanish population. \*\*We identify a gradient of likely autochthonous Maghrebi ancestry that increases from east to west across northern Africa; this ancestry is likely derived from “back-to-Africa” gene flow more than 12,000 years ago (ya), prior to the Holocene. \*\*The indigenous North African ancestry is more frequent in populations with historical Berber ethnicity. **In most North African populations we also see substantial shared ancestry with the Near East, and to a lesser extent sub-Saharan Africa and Europe.** To estimate the time of migration from sub-Saharan populations into North Africa, we implement a maximum likelihood dating method based on the distribution of migrant tracts. In order to first identify migrant tracts, we assign local ancestry to haplotypes using a novel, principal component-based analysis of three ancestral populations. We estimate that a migration of western African origin into Morocco began about 40 generations ago (approximately 1,200 ya); a migration of individuals with Nilotic ancestry into Egypt occurred about 25 generations ago (approximately 750 ya). **Our genomic data reveal an extraordinarily complex history of migrations, involving at least five ancestral populations, into North Africa.** > [Go to:](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257290/?tool=pubmed#ui-ncbiinpagenav-2) > **Author Summary** > > Proposed migrations between North Africa and neighboring regions have included Paleolithic gene flow from the Near East, an Arabic migration across the whole of North Africa 1,400 years ago (ya), and trans-Saharan transport of slaves from sub-Saharan Africa. Historical records, archaeology, and mitochondrial and Y-chromosome DNA have been marshaled in support of one theory or another, but there is little consensus regarding the overall genetic background of North African populations or their origin and expansion. We characterize the patterns of genetic variation in North Africa using ∼730,000 single nucleotide polymorphisms from across the genome for seven populations. We observe two distinct, opposite gradients of ancestry: an east-to-west increase in likely autochthonous North African ancestry and an east-to-west decrease in likely Near Eastern Arabic ancestry. The indigenous North African ancestry may have been more common in Berber populations and appears most closely related to populations outside of Africa, but divergence between Maghrebi peoples and Near Eastern/Europeans likely precedes the Holocene (\>12,000 ya). **We also find significant signatures of sub-Saharan African ancestry that vary substantially among populations. These sub-Saharan ancestries appear to be a recent introduction into North African populations, dating to about 1,200 years ago in southern Morocco and about 750 years ago into Egypt,** possibly reflecting the patterns of the trans-Saharan slave trade that occurred during this period. > > [African human mtDNA phylogeography at-a-glance - PubMed](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21368343) > [@](#): > > [J Anthropol Sci.](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21368343#) 2011;89:25-58. Epub 2011 Mar 15. > **African human mtDNA phylogeography at-a-glance.** > > [Rosa A](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Rosa%20A%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=21368343), [Brehem A](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Brehem%20A%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=21368343). > **Source** > > Medical Sciences Unit, Centre of Life Sciences, University of Madeira, Campus of Penteada, 9000-390 Funchal, Portugal. [EMAIL=“arosa@uma.pt”]arosa@uma.pt > > **Abstract** > > The mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) genetic system has long proven to be useful for studying the demographic history of our species, since their proposed Southeast/East African origin 200 kya. Despite the weak archaeological and anthropologic records, which render a difficult understanding of early intra- continental migrations, the phylogenetic L0-L1’6 split at about 140-160 kya is thought to represent also an early sub-structuring of small and isolated communities in South and East Africa. Regional variation accumulated over the following millennia, with L2 and L3 lineages arising in Central and East Africa 100-75 kya. Their sub-Saharan dispersal not later than 60 kya, largely overwhelmed the L0’1 distribution, nowadays limited to South African Khoisan and Central African Pygmies. Cyclic expansions and retractions of the equatorial forest between 40 kya and the “Last Glacial Aridity Maximum” were able to reduce the genetic diversity of modern humans. Surviving regional-specific lineages have emerged from the Sahelian refuge areas, repopulating the region and contributing to the overall West African genetic similarity. Particular L1- L3 lineages mirror the substantial population growth made possible by moister and warmer conditions of the Sahara’s Wet Phase and the adoption of agriculture and iron smelting techniques. The diffusion of the farming expertise from a Central African source towards South Africa was mediated by the Bantu people 3 kya. The strong impact of their gene flow almost erased the pre-existent maternal pool.\*\* Non-L mtDNAs testify for Eurasian lineages that have enriched the African maternal pool at different timeframes: i) Near and Middle Eastern influences in Upper Palaeolithic, probably link to the spread of Afro-Asiatic languages; ii) particular lineages from West Eurasia around or after the glacial period; iii) post-glacial mtDNA signatures from the Franco-Cantabrian refugia, that have crossed the Strait of Gibraltar and iv) Eurasian lineages tracing back to the Neolithic or more recent historical episodes. Finally, the non-random sub-Saharan spread of North African lineages was likely mediated by the ancestors of Fulani, nomadic pastoral communities in the Sahel.\*\* > **[Polymorphisms of mtDNA control region in Tunisian and Moroccan populations:...](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19414164/?dopt=Abstract)** > > Current forensic mitochondrial (mt)DNA databases are limited in representative population data of African origin. We investigated HVS-I/HVS-II sequences of 120 Tunisian and Moroccan healthy male donors applying stringent quality criteria to assure... > [@](#): > > [Forensic Sci Int Genet.](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19414164?dopt=Abstract#) 2009 Jun;3(3):166-72. Epub 2009 Feb 25. > **Polymorphisms of mtDNA control region in Tunisian and Moroccan populations: an enrichment of forensic mtDNA databases with Northern Africa data.** > > [Turchi C](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Turchi%20C%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=19414164), [Buscemi L](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Buscemi%20L%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=19414164), [Giacchino E](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Giacchino%20E%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=19414164), [Onofri V](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Onofri%20V%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=19414164), [Fendt L](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Fendt%20L%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=19414164), [Parson W](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Parson%20W%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=19414164), [Tagliabracci A](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Tagliabracci%20A%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=19414164). > **Source** > > Department of Neuroscience, Section of Legal Medicine, Università Politecnica delle Marche, 60020 Ancona, Italy. > > **Abstract** > > Current forensic mitochondrial (mt)DNA databases are limited in representative population data of African origin. We investigated HVS-I/HVS-II sequences of 120 Tunisian and Moroccan healthy male donors applying stringent quality criteria to assure high quality of the data and phylogenetic alignment and notation of the sequences. Among 64 Tunisians, 56 different haplotypes were observed and the most common haplotype (16187T 16189C 16223T 16264T 16270T 16278T 16293G 16311C 73G 152C 182T 185T 195C 247A 263G 309.1C 315.1C; haplogroup (hg) L1b) was shared by four individuals. 56 Moroccans could be assigned to 52 different haplotypes where the most common haplotype was of West Eurasian origin with the hg H sequence motif 263G 315.1C and variations in the HVS-II polyC-stretch (309.1C 309.2C) shared by six samples. The majority of the observed haplotypes belong to the west Eurasian phylogeny (50% in Tunisians and 62.5% in Moroccans). **Our data are consistent with the current phylogeographic knowledge displaying the occurrence of sub-Saharan haplogroup L sequences, found in 48.4% of Tunisians and 25% of Moroccans as well as the presence of the two re-migrated haplogroups U6 (7.8% and 1.8% in Tunisians and Moroccans, respectively) and M1 (1.6% in Tunisians and 8.9% in Moroccans).** > **[The history of African gene flow into Southern Europeans, Levantines, and Jews...](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21533020/)** > > Previous genetic studies have suggested a history of sub-Saharan African gene flow into some West Eurasian populations after the initial dispersal out of Africa that occurred at least 45,000 years ago. However, there has been no accurate... > [@](#): > > [PLoS Genet.](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21533020#) 2011 Apr;7(4):e1001373. Epub 2011 Apr 21. > **The history of African gene flow into Southern Europeans, Levantines, and Jews.** > > [Moorjani P](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Moorjani%20P%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=21533020), [Patterson N](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Patterson%20N%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=21533020), [Hirschhorn JN](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Hirschhorn%20JN%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=21533020), [Keinan A](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Keinan%20A%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=21533020), [Hao L](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Hao%20L%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=21533020), [Atzmon G](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Atzmon%20G%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=21533020), [Burns E](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Burns%20E%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=21533020), [Ostrer H](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Ostrer%20H%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=21533020), [Price AL](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Price%20AL%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=21533020), [Reich D](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Reich%20D%5BAuthor%5D&cauthor=true&cauthor_uid=21533020). > **Source** > > Department of Genetics, Harvard Medical School, Boston, Massachusetts, United States of America. [EMAIL=“moorjani@genetics.med.harvard.edu”]moorjani@genetics.med.harvard.edu > > **Abstract** > > Previous genetic studies have suggested a history of sub-Saharan African gene flow into some West Eurasian populations after the initial dispersal out of Africa that occurred at least 45,000 years ago. However, there has been no accurate characterization of the proportion of mixture, or of its date. We analyze genome-wide polymorphism data from about 40 West Eurasian groups to show that almost all Southern Europeans have inherited 1%-3% African ancestry with an average mixture date of around 55 generations ago, consistent with North African gene flow at the end of the Roman Empire and subsequent Arab migrations. Levantine groups harbor 4%-15% African ancestry with an average mixture date of about 32 generations ago, consistent with close political, economic, and cultural links with Egypt in the late middle ages. We also detect 3%-5% sub-Saharan African ancestry in all eight of the diverse Jewish populations that we analyzed. For the Jewish admixture, we obtain an average estimated date of about 72 generations. This may reflect descent of these groups from a common ancestral population that already had some African ancestry prior to the Jewish Diasporas. > **Author Summary** > > Southern Europeans and Middle Eastern populations are known to have inherited a small percentage of their genetic material from recent sub-Saharan African migrations, but there has been no estimate of the exact proportion of this gene flow, or of its date. Here, we apply genomic methods to show that the proportion of African ancestry in many Southern European groups is 1%–3%, in Middle Eastern groups is 4%–15%, and in Jewish groups is 3%–5%. To estimate the dates when the mixture occurred, we develop a novel method that estimates the size of chromosomal segments of distinct ancestry in individuals of mixed ancestry. We verify using computer simulations that the method produces useful estimates of population mixture dates up to 300 generations in the past. By applying the method to West Eurasians, we show that the dates in Southern Europeans are consistent with events during the Roman Empire and subsequent Arab migrations. The dates in the Jewish groups are older, consistent with events in classical or biblical times that may have occurred in the shared history of Jewish populations. > > [Go to:](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3080861/?tool=pubmed#ui-ncbiinpagenav-2) > **Introduction** > > The history of human migrations from Africa into West Eurasia is only partially understood. Archaeological and genetic evidence indicate that anatomically modern humans arrived in Europe from an African source at least 45,000 years ago, following the initial dispersal out of Africa [[1]](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3125610), [[2]](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15753023). However, it is known that Southern Europeans and Levantines (people from modern day Palestine, Israel, Syria and Jordan) have also inherited genetic material of African origin due to subsequent migrations. One line of evidence comes from Y-chromosome [[3]](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3080861/?tool=pubmed#pgen.1001373-Adams1) and mitochondrial DNA analyses [[4]](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8865993)–[[6]](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16201138). These have identified haplogroups that are characteristic of sub-Saharan Africans in Southern Europeans and Levantines but not in Northern Europeans [[7]](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3080861/?tool=pubmed#pgen.1001373-Richards1). Auton et al. [[8]](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19218534) presented nuclear genome-based evidence for sharing of sub-Saharan African ancestry in some West Eurasians, by identifying a North-South gradient of haplotype sharing between Europeans and sub-Saharan Africans, with the highest proportion of haplotype sharing observed in south/southwestern Europe. However, none of these studies used genome-wide data to estimate the proportion of African ancestry in West Eurasians, or the date(s) of mixture. **Throughout this report, we use “African mixture” to refer to gene flow into West Eurasians since the divergence of the latter from East Asians; thus, we are not referring to the much older dispersal out of Africa ∼45,000 years ago but instead to migrations that have occurred since that time.** These genetic papers tell different stories, and can seem almost contradictory on populations, because they look at different markers. But they have a common story, that the isolation of ‘races’ that NDD wishes to assert existed did not exist and show the constant of great variation between his ‘Negroes’ and common and ancient gene flows into the populations he asserts are white because he needs that for his race argument. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2659 "2012-06-26T22:01:45Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Please quote one “inane opinion” I have posted without supplying evidence upon request. Failing that, please admit that I have done no such thing and apologize. > > Lol, nice attack on my motivations. > > Please quote one such lie. > > Please quote me where I have stated or implied so. Since you’ve posted no evidence at all, every opinion of yours counts. And since your whole argument is that whites are smarter than blacks I can’t include enough quotes to cover the gamut of your inanities. Since you try to nitpick everything to deny what you’ve said… Goodbye liar, welcome to my imaginary ignore list. (not really, I’m still going to call him an idiot, but I’ll do what he does, not answer questions that I don’t feel like bothering with, mostly because they’ve been answered before) ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2660 "2012-06-26T22:07:33Z")
> [@Who\_me\_1](#): > > Since you’ve posted no evidence at all, every opinion of yours counts. Lol, funny that you cannot quote even one such opinion; you cannot quote one “lie” you are referring to; or one post where I stated or implied that whites are superior to blacks. (Of course I have claimed that whites are generally more intelligent than blacks, but that’s not the same thing as claiming general superiority.) Of course you cannot back up your claims, because you are lying about my position. i.e. you are dishonestly setting up a strawman to attack rather than responding to what I actually say. And of course I do not engage with people who use these types of dishonest tactics. Welcome to my ignore list. Goodbye, liar. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2661 "2012-06-26T22:08:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > From[this](http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/countries-with-lowest-murder-rates.html), several West African countries have murder rates among the lowest in the world. None of those claims are substantiated with credible sources. This is what the CIA World Factbook has to say about the economy of Senegal, “senegal relies heavily on donor assistance.” In other words, the economy is a charity case. The per capita gross domestic product in Senegal is $1,900. [https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sg.html](https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sg.html) 39.3 percent of adults are literate. [https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sg.html](https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/sg.html) For a country to have these dismal statistics and then a crime rate as low as Japan’s does not pass the laugh test. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/2662 "2012-06-26T22:15:46Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You are misrepresenting the data. Your cite provides two wildly different estimates- 1.1 per 100,000 and 14.2. You really need to look at your own cites more. Obviously they can’t both be true. > > According to [this](http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/faculty/rwinslow/africa/senegal.html), using INTERPOL data, the murder rate in Senegal in 2000 was 0.33 per 100,000- lower even than Japan. I trust the UN Office on Drugs and Crime, UN Survey of Crime Trends more than the World Health Organization. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489.md?page=132) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489.md?page=134)