# SDMB Bigoted Asshole Omnibus Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 29, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489 "2012-05-29T22:59:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 163
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/3243 "2012-06-30T22:33:14Z")
"Many of them are specialists in mental testing. " Really? I was not aware of this, or maybe don’t know what you mean. ‘Specialists in mental testing’, in my world, are generally PhDs or School Psychologists, and I wouldn’t see either speciality being strongly represented in this POV. Could you point me towards a few examples? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/3244 "2012-06-30T22:34:06Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > Is that how you prefer to remember that exchange? Well, hell, I guess your point is that credentials and advanced training in the sciences are entirely irrlevent in this conversation. > How fortunate for you… Correct, totally irrelevant. Except just a moment ago, when he wanted to intimidate you with the credentials of the authors of _The Bell Curve_, a book that told him what he wanted to hear. So, to recap: your credentials - irrelevant. Their credentials - make them a trusted authority. **b84** ’s credentials - again, irrelevant, but unnecessary because he’s figured out the truth on his own. Credentials are funny things. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/3245 "2012-06-30T22:49:45Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > "Many of them are specialists in mental testing. " > Really? I was not aware of this, or maybe don’t know what you mean. ‘Specialists in mental testing’, in my world, are generally PhDs or School Psychologists, and I wouldn’t see either speciality being strongly represented in this POV. Could you point me towards a few examples? > **[Richard Lynn](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Lynn)** > > Richard Lynn (20 February 1930 – July 2023) was a controversial English psychologist and self-described "scientific racist" who advocated for a genetic relationship between race and intelligence. He was the editor-in-chief of Mankind Quarterly, a white supremacist journal.\[a\] He was lecturer in psychology at the University of Exeter and professor of psychology at the Economic and Social Research Institute, Dublin, and at the University of Ulster at Coleraine. Lynn was a professor emeritus of p... > **[Linda Gottfredson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linda_Gottfredson)** > > Linda Susanne Gottfredson (née Howarth; born 1947) is an American psychologist and writer. She is professor emerita of educational psychology at the University of Delaware and co-director of the Delaware-Johns Hopkins Project for the Study of Intelligence and Society. She is best known for writing the 1994 letter "Mainstream Science on Intelligence", which was published in the Wall Street Journal in defense of Richard Herrnstein and Charles Murray's controversial book The Bell Curve (1994). > She ... ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/3246 "2012-06-30T22:54:53Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > So, to recap: your credentials - irrelevant. > > Their credentials - make them a trusted authority. > > **b84** ’s credentials - again, irrelevant, but unnecessary because he’s figured out the truth on his own. > > Credentials are funny things. You sound incredulous. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/3247 "2012-06-30T22:59:43Z")
I was familiar with Lynn, but not Gottfredson. Ignorance fought. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/3248 "2012-06-30T22:59:52Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > Dude, this the Dope. We’re not enforcing PC, we’re attempting to combat ignorance. Same thing - we’re infringing his right to be ignorant. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2012, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/3249 "2012-06-30T23:17:07Z")
We haven’t stopped him being ignorant at all! ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/3250 "2012-07-01T00:27:33Z")
> [@New Deal Democrat](#): > > In 1979, which is the latest date given, blacks were still four times more likely to be illiterate than whites. Doesn’t matter. Blacks consistently met the objective standard set by whites previously. Their genetic makeup wouldn’t change significantly in a generation, so the attainment gap of the previous generation can be explained by environmental factors. If “intelligence” genes remained the same for blacks, 58.3% of illiteracy is accounted for solely by environment (historic black illiteracy - historic white illiteracy - current black illiteracy). Your reasoning, if applied at the time, would have prohibited public education for blacks, using the same data (20% vs. 79.9% illiteracy rates and presumably a difference not accounted for by socioeconomic status). ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/3251 "2012-07-01T01:14:13Z")
**NDD** - I notice you have posted in reply to several posts after my [disproval](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15223839&postcount=3006http://) of a point made earlier today by you. Any reply? Or am I to infer that you are a cowardly fool? Or a foolish coward? Whatever. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/3252 "2012-07-01T01:48:15Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > **NDD** - I notice you have posted in reply to several posts after my [disproval](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15223839&postcount=3006http://) of a point made earlier today by you. This is, of course, SOP for him. Ignore what you can’t bluff past. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/3253 "2012-07-01T07:41:03Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I’ve answered your questions. No you haven’t, and in fact you are weaseling. First you (incorrectly) claimed that according to the article, controlling for environmental influences explained all of the observed differences in academic achievement between African Americans and whites. When pressed for support, you limited your claim to “all the occasions where they had concurrent measurements of those factors” Of course there’s nothing necessarily wrong with changing one’s position, but it’s dishonest for you to do so while pretending that your position hasn’t changed. I do not engage with people who weasel or who refuse to answer questions which would let me clarify their position such as it is. Goodbye, liar. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 8:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/3254 "2012-07-01T08:02:13Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > I’ve answered this at least twice, maybe three times. Enough dancing. For someone who demands answers to his questions, you sure are a hypocrit when it comes to the obverse. I demand answers for questions about peoples’ positions. If somebody made their credentials an issue in the discussion, for example by asserting that their position is stronger because of their credentials (or somebody else’s position is weaker because of his credentials) then it’s reasonable to question them on the subject. I have never asserted that my credentials give my position extra credibility. However, to put this issue to rest, I will state that I have no more credentials besides the advanced statistics coursework I mentioned earlier, i.e. 4 or 5 advanced statistics classes. Now please answer my questions: 1. Please link to the post where you lay out your own credentials. This is reasonable since you have demanded that I go beyond simply referring to my earlier posts in general and since you have made your credentials an issue in this discussion. 2. With respect to the conclusion you were referring to, where (if anywhere) in the linked article does it appear? Please quote it. 3. Do you agree that in the linked article, the authors observe a gap between blacks and whites which is not explained by the factors they cite? If you agree, do you think their observation is an anomaly? And if not, what do you think the reason is for that gap? 4. Do you believe you are qualified to decide which experts’ conclusions are superior? > [@](#): > > Is that how you prefer to remember that exchange? Well, hell, I guess your point is that credentials and advanced training in the sciences are entirely irrlevent in this conversation. The point is that you are suffering from overconfidence. > [@](#): > > confidently asserting the extremely minority position I’m extremely skeptical of this claim. Please show proof that my position is in an “extreme minority.” > [@](#): > > refusing to be educated by those who know much more than I What’s your basis for claiming that my knowledge is inferior? Is it simply that my conclusion is one you disagree with? If you are not familiar with Linda Gottfredson, then perhaps your knowledge in this area is not quite as extensive as you think. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/3255 "2012-07-01T08:16:23Z")
> [@straight\_man](#): > > Precisely what was your justification for thinking that genetic predispositions would have a greater effect on older people than younger? What I have read on the internet about the subject. For example: > [@](#): > > Estimates in the academic research of the heritability of IQ have varied from below 0.5[2] to a high of 0.9.[5] A 1996 statement by the American Psychological Association gave about .45 for children and about .75 during and after adolescence.[6] > **[Heritability of IQ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritability_of_IQ)** > > Research on the heritability of intelligence quotient (IQ) inquires into the degree of variation in IQ within a population that is due to genetic variation between individuals in that population. There has been significant controversy in the academic community about the heritability of IQ since research on the issue began in the late nineteenth century. Intelligence in the normal range is a polygenic trait, meaning that it is influenced by more than one gene, and in the case of intell Early twin ... > [@](#): > > Although common sense suggests that environmental influences increasingly account for individual differences in behavior as experiences accumulate during the course of life, this hypothesis has not previously been tested, in part because of the large sample sizes needed for an adequately powered analysis. \*\* Here we show for general cognitive ability that, to the > contrary, genetic influence increases with age.\*\* ETA: my bolding. [http://ctglab.nl/papers/2010/Haworth\_MP2010\_h2IQ.pdf](http://ctglab.nl/papers/2010/Haworth_MP2010_h2IQ.pdf) > [@](#): > > The opposite is more plausible, since there’s less time for environment to have affected you when you’re young, I agree, it’s counter-intuitive. One hypothesis is that as children grow, they have more control over their own environment and smarter children tend to choose more stimulating environments. > [@](#): > > and I don’t remember you showing us any citation to the contrary. Well now I have. And if you have citations which show otherwise, I’m happy to look at them. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/3256 "2012-07-01T09:20:37Z")
I don’t have for every piece of crap you fling at the wall. I posted my credentials in this thread in posts #241 and 1733. You and NDD have remarked that the reason research doesn’t support your position is because scientists refrain from concluding ‘the real truth’ due to fears of political correctness, or some such hogwash, I consider within that observation is an aknowlegement that the published research vastly supports the ‘not genetic’ over the ‘obviously genetic’. You’ve been given **reams** of cites already. :smack: “What’s your basis for claiming that my knowledge is inferior?” You’ve taken statistics, yet dismissed advanced degrees in Psych, and others in this thread with significant credentials in other relevent disciplines, such as genetics (and no, I’m not going to wade through the thread for the exact cites. You know you have, or you lie). ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/3257 "2012-07-01T10:47:35Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > I don’t have for every piece of crap you fling at the wall. I have no idea what your point is here. > [@](#): > > I posted my credentials in this thread in posts #241 and 1733. Thank you. It seems that your qualifications are inferior to those of some researchers who are (apparently) on the opposite side of the debate from you. > [@](#): > > You and NDD have remarked that the reason research doesn’t support your position is because scientists refrain from concluding ‘the real truth’ due to fears of political correctness, or some such hogwash, I have not made such a point. I would ask you not to strawman me, but this is the last post in which I will be responding to you anyway so it doesn’t really matter. I asked you a few simple questions which would help clarify your position, and you ignored them. I have no interest in engaging with such a person. Goodbye. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/3258 "2012-07-01T11:00:52Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Goodbye, liar. [takes a drink] ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/3259 "2012-07-01T11:41:34Z")
We hate to see you go, **brazzy** , but we _love_ to watch you leave! ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/3260 "2012-07-01T12:44:09Z")
Jensen and Rushton could also count as “specialists in mental testing”. I don’t know of anyone under the age of 30 espousing a genetic view of intelligence though. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/3261 "2012-07-01T13:25:03Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Goodbye, liar. Oh noes! Does this mean I no longer get to play “You must respond to my series of questions forms from increasingly tortorously and selectively reconstructed bits of somebody else’s cite?” And I was having such fun spending my time on that. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2012, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/3262 "2012-07-01T13:38:54Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > [takes a drink] A drinking game? That could result in message board induced alcoholism under the circumstances…although admittedly that might make this thread less painful. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489.md?page=162) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489.md?page=164)