# SDMB Bigoted Asshole Omnibus Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 29, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489 "2012-05-29T22:59:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 49
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/961 "2012-06-06T20:24:22Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > As far as I know Lynn’s research is the only that has been done on this important topic. He probably made mistakes. Until more research is done he will be the authority on the subject. Wow. What a horrific approach to science this is. First, there’s been lots orlf research on these issues. His is just one of the only ones that agrees with the conclusions you prefer. This is a little like saying that Chicken Little is an authority on the stability of the sky. ETA: I think the question in the thread title has been resoundingly answered. And that answer is “No fucking way. No matter what.” ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/962 "2012-06-06T20:31:00Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > ETA: I think the question in the thread title has been resoundingly answered. And that answer is “No fucking way. No matter what.” Given that he seems to be more and more unwilling or unable to obey board rules I suspect he’ll shut himself up by a banning relatively soon. Either by accumulating infractions or blowing up in some huge flameout. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/963 "2012-06-06T20:34:43Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Given that he seems to be more and more unwilling or unable to obey board rules I suspect he’ll shut himself up by a banning relatively soon. Either by accumulating infractions or blowing up in some huge flameout. I never took you for an optimist. I’d call your position here downright Pollyannaish. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/964 "2012-06-06T20:54:16Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Wow. What a horrific approach to science this is. > > First, there’s been lots orlf research on these issues. His is just one of the only ones that agrees with the conclusions you prefer. > > This is a little like saying that Chicken Little is an authority on the stability of the sky. > > ETA: I think the question in the thread title has been resoundingly answered. And that answer is “No fucking way. No matter what.” Where is there research that contradicts Dr. Richard Lynn’s findings? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/965 "2012-06-06T20:55:19Z")
For irritants like **NDD** who maintain a fairly even keel with their nonsense and don’t flame out, it’ll probably be necessary to declare a “no-topic zone” which he will obviously not have the self-control to obey. Prohibiting **NDD** from spewing half-baked racist nonsense is like pouring cement into Kenny G’s saxophone. (Which is to say, long overdue and guaranteed to make the world a better place.) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/966 "2012-06-06T21:03:21Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Where is there research that contradicts Dr. Richard Lynn’s findings? His own poor research refutes itself. He decided to write about a subject in which he had completely inadequate data. Instead of going out and getting more data, he made it up. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/967 "2012-06-06T21:20:37Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Nope. It’s rejected because it doesn’t even pass the test of common sense. An entire group of people with an average IQ of 54 can’t function as a society, much less figure out how to put on clothes or find food for themselves. Well, yes, that’s obvious not normal sensible people like you and me, just as it’s obvious to normal sensible people that the US Government couldn’t possibly have faked the moon landings without the Soviets detecting and exposing the scam or it’s obvious to normal sensible people that we would have found out by now if the Queen of England were the head of the global drug trade. However, True Believers in crackpot notions have trained themselves to believe six impossible things before breakfast, building up mental patterns impervious to common-sense logic. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/968 "2012-06-06T22:15:54Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > For irritants like **NDD** who maintain a fairly even keel with their nonsense and don’t flame out, it’ll probably be necessary to declare a “no-topic zone” which he will obviously not have the self-control to obey. > > Prohibiting **NDD** from spewing half-baked racist nonsense is like pouring cement into Kenny G’s saxophone. (Which is to say, long overdue and guaranteed to make the world a better place.) Couldn’t agree with you more. I don’t understand why people are trying to reason with him at this point. I’ve seen a lot of idiots on the Dope over the years, but he is without a doubt the most deliberately obtuse individual I’ve ever seen. This is someone who actively and intentionally spits in the face of knowledge. I’m fascinated that he can even put together a coherent sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Who\_me\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/958977/32.png) [@Who\_me\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Who_me_1)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/969 "2012-06-06T22:19:32Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Where is there research that contradicts Dr. Richard Lynn’s findings? It’s not my fault you didn’t check my link nor (apparently) read the excerpt I posted. Now that is just a refutation of Lynn’s moronic results, but that should do for a start. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2012, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/970 "2012-06-06T22:21:39Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > However, True Believers in crackpot notions have trained themselves to believe six impossible things before breakfast, building up mental patterns impervious to common-sense logic. Perhaps they have an average IQ of 54? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/971 "2012-06-07T01:14:37Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Maybe I’m being whooshed here, but the Jewish population of Israel alone is very culturally and genetically diverse. It’s part of what makes \*us \*great. Yeah, good for you. But do you really think its as diverse as the US. I only bring up Israel because it has a high population of Jews and NDD makes all sorts of assumptions and reaches all sorts of conclusions about race and intelligence. > [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > China is catching up with the United States quickly. Israel is much smaller than the United States, so there cannot be a comparison. > [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > That must have been a distant rock. Everyone I have talked to who has taught Asian and black students disagrees with you. Data I have posted here agrees with them, rather than you. I taught elementary and in NYC they start giving kids standardized tests in 3rd grade (or at least we used to) and the test scores were not very different when segregated by race. There evidence that the IQ gap increases with age and takes a sharp jump at about age 10-12. Racists have attributed this to the effects of physical maturity and pre-puberty at 10-12, liberals have attributed this to the effects of background racism and the effects of self awareness at 10-12. > [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > The Slippery Slope is a fallacy in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any argument for the inevitability of the event in question. The notion of racial superiority has popped up in the past and it has frequently followed a familiar pattern. One group gains dominance over another group, the dominant group attributes its dominance to racial superiority and bad shit happens. > [@cmyk](#): > > I never said that. I said ethnicity and race have no real basis in science. Neither are subspecies of Homo sapiens sapiens. It doesn’t have to. If by some freak accident all the kids on the left side of a classroom are left handed and all the kids on the right side of the classroom are right handed. We further determine that handedness has a genetic component. If all the kids on the left hand side of the classroom only marry other kids from the left hand side of the classroom, can’t you predict the relative incidence of left handedness of the children of the kids on the left hand side of the classroom? > [@](#): > > And yes, dog breeds are a subspecies of Canis lupus familiaris. They are artificially selected for, by humans, to draw out particular sets of traits. > > This is not equivalent in humans. Nobody is actively breeding us to draw out, or even eliminate genetic traits. Isn’t that a differences in degree and not kind. NDD’s argument at least in part is that nature has been selecting for intelligence in some geographies and not so much in others. That intelligence became a more significant survival trait in East Asia than it was in Africa. > [@](#): > > Of course not. But that doesnt mean so called races or ethnic groups can’t inherit whatever trait humanity has to offer. We are talking about averages. > [@](#): > > As for my ethicl stance on egalitarianism, I’m of the philosophical position laid out by John Rawls. That despite any perceived inequalities from individual to individual, if we could somehow pull a magic lever, and everyone in America randomly switched bodies, not only now holding their physical bodies as your own (for better or worse), but also cognitive abilities/disabilities, then I think we can all agree that striving for equality is a good idea. > > As for the solution to that goal, I have no fucking idea how to get there. Any ideas? I also subscribe Rawls’ notions of fairness. Jesus came up with the idea first “do onto others” is a precursor to Rawls’ theory of justice. > [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Jesse Jackson has pointed out that the number of blacks lynched since the end of the Civil War is less than the number of blacks murdered by other blacks every year. And that can’t be attributed to culture, society and environment? Or do you think Jesse Jackson was arguing that blacks were genetically inferior and incapable of behaving themselves? > [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > I am of the old left, not the Marxist left, but the socialist labor left of Norman Thomas and Walter Reuther. You have admirable heroes. You don’t seem to live up to their ideals. I think if they were alive today Norman Thomas would repeat his famous quote “I am not the champion of lost causes, but the champion of causes not yet won” He wouldn’t give up on an entire race of people quite as quickly as you seem to be ready to do. Reuther marched with King and lent the strength of the labor movement to the civil rights movement, I don’t know how ready he would be to entirely blame blacks (or more accurately their genes) for their own predicament. > [@](#): > > It is clear to me that the New Deal worked, and that much of the Great Society did not. During the 1960s liberal democrats assumed with no evidence that if racial discrimination was ended blacks would behave and perform as well as whites. This has not happened. No they didn’t. They assumed that the gap would narrow and the gap has narrowed but the convergence has slowed just as the vestiges of racism have become harder and harder to address. > [@](#): > > If there had been more of an awareness of how intractable racial differences are the civil rights legislation would have been more moderate, and it would have been passed more slowly. The social dislocations that lead to the Republican domination of the United States would have been less likely. Perhaps, but going from 3/5ths to 4/5ths is not really the sort of goal anyone sets for themselves. > [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > Thank God the white race was saved by punk-rock having never been invented. Not even close to the same thing. > [@Kobal2](#): > > I don’t believe there’s any such thing as “impulse control” as a monolithic, quantifiable variable. … > Again, I wouldn’t think it’s “true” in any really quantifiable sense. Nobody’s born intelligent, the same way nobody’s born good at fencing. Intelligence is something you develop and exercise, not something innate. Drop a toddler chock full of “intelligent genes” into the wilds, he won’t come out of the jungle an eloquent math wiz 20 years later. Yeah but in a controlled environment some people can withstand impulse better than others and some of that impulse control is heritable. Sure you can train yourself but observation of children indicates that there is some heritable component to impulse control and similarly, there is some heritable component to g as measured by IQ. > [@holmes](#): > > The reason why we have different breeds in dogs, is because we have constantly been inbreeding them for specific traits. We cull those that display traits we don’t like and selectively breed those that do. I think NDD’s argument is that evolution took care of that for us over the last 10,000 years. > [@](#): > > I have a question, what happens to the different breeds of dogs, once you stop artificially interfering with their reproduction? That is, if you allowed a group of different breeds to mate indiscriminately for several generations, do you think you would still be able to tell what breed the offspring was or would they all end up looking sort like a generic ‘mutt’? I think they would eventually look like a generic mutt after a while. > [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > According to Race Differences in Intelligence: An Evolutionary Analysis, by Richard Lynn, which you reject for ideological reasons, the San have an average IQ of 54. That places them even below African Negroes, who are below American Negroes, who are below white gentiles, who are below Orientals, who are below Ashkenazi Jews. > > [Race Differences in Intelligence (book) - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_Differences_in_Intelligence_(book)) 54? Seriously. Do you know what an IQ of 54 means? It means that the average San IQ is lower than the average orangutan. With all the Jews in Israel (I understand at least half of whom are Ashkenazi), why is their IQ below the global average? > [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > As far as I know Lynn’s research is the only that has been done on this important topic. He probably made mistakes. Until more research is done he will be the authority on the subject. I don’t think he is widely considered the authority any more than I am the authority on the relationship between chopsticks and IQ. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/972 "2012-06-07T02:06:26Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > 54? Seriously. Do you know what an IQ of 54 means? It means that the average San IQ is lower than the average orangutan. IQ tests measure the ability to learn skills that matter in a civilization, where the ability to master literacy and mathematics matter. The brains of the Bushmen are probably designed to thrive in a more primitive environment, one where a white or Oriental with a high IQ would not thrive in. They should not be compared with whites with IQs of 54, because they almost certainly have mental abilities the whites would not have. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/973 "2012-06-07T02:28:48Z")
Like what? Telepathy? Seriously, guy, you’ve been on the board long enough to know you can’t just make things up. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/974 "2012-06-07T02:33:47Z")
More and more and more [fractal wrongness.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fractal_wrongness) ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/975 "2012-06-07T02:37:14Z")
The idea that the average IQ among the San is 54 is _laughable_. Literally laugh out loud laughable. The idea that someone gave a IQ test to members of a preliterate society and decided that they were all mentally retarded because they didn’t know how to use a pen to fill out the test, or didn’t see why they should care which number came next in a sequence, or didn’t know offhand that people : democracy as wealth : plutocracy is laughable. The San lived in the harshest environment imaginable for centuries. They developed and passed on an encyclopedic knowledge of hundreds of edible, inedible and medicinal plants, toolmaking, hunting, etcetera, all without a system of writing, simply passed on from generation to generation by oral tradition and feats of memory that would give Homer pause. It’s like saying the holder of the Lucasian Chair is mentally retarded because he couldn’t live for a week by foraging. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/976 "2012-06-07T02:42:33Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > More and more and more [fractal wrongness.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fractal_wrongness) I prefer the [picture](http://static.stickam.com/media/image/converted/original/1785/8243/7/36721a8c-e63b-11de-80d0-5f5250f73e6b.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/977 "2012-06-07T02:42:57Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > IQ tests measure the ability to learn skills that matter in a civilization, where the ability to master literacy and mathematics matter. The brains of the Bushmen are probably designed to thrive in a more primitive environment, one where a white or Oriental with a high IQ would not thrive in. > > They should not be compared with whites with IQs of 54, because they almost certainly have mental abilities the whites would not have. Abilities they’ve developed over individual lifetimes, from practice and teaching, sure. Inborn abilities, not so much. Humans are _incredibly_ adaptable, particularly in early childhood. Stop acting like they’re a different species. Have you ever even met any traditional tribesmen? They’re not stupid people. Maybe they don’t read and write well, or at all, but white people didn’t read and write 2,000 years ago, whereas people in the Middle East have been literate for at least 4 or 5 thousand years or more. I’m curious. Do you actually have a life and family, or is this all posted by someone who lives with his parents, has no job, and has never accomplished much? I’m not accusing you of that, I’m wondering. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/978 "2012-06-07T03:33:59Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > More and more and more [fractal wrongness.](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Fractal_wrongness) Thanks for introducing me to the concept. I love it ! ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/979 "2012-06-07T03:38:00Z")
> [@pravnik](#): > > The idea that the average IQ among the San is 54 is _laughable_. Literally laugh out loud laughable. The idea that someone gave a IQ test to members of a preliterate society and decided that they were all mentally retarded because they didn’t know how to use a pen to fill out the test, or didn’t see why they should care which number came next in a sequence, or didn’t know offhand that people : democracy as wealth : plutocracy is laughable. The San lived in the harshest environment imaginable for centuries. They developed and passed on an encyclopedic knowledge of hundreds of edible, inedible and medicinal plants, toolmaking, hunting, etcetera, all without a system of writing, simply passed on from generation to generation by oral tradition and feats of memory that would give Homer pause. It’s like saying the holder of the Lucasian Chair is mentally retarded because he couldn’t live for a week by foraging. I’ve tried to explain this exact thing to every racist that comes along quoting from these same books. Look, they never listen. As obvious as it is, this never makes an impact. ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2012, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/980 "2012-06-07T03:41:25Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I’ve tried to explain this exact thing to every racist that comes along quoting from these same books. Look, they never listen. As obvious as it is, this never makes an impact. I know, I know. I guess I’m proud I made it to 20 pages before I just couldn’t take it anymore. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489.md?page=48) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489.md?page=50)