# SDMB Bigoted Asshole Omnibus Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 29, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489 "2012-05-29T22:59:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 56
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1101 "2012-06-08T13:49:16Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > No problem. > > Now, if you could figure out the source of my handle, I’d be grateful. It was bestowed upon me by somebody who persistently refuses to explain it. First thing that came to my mind were these [guys](http://marathongame.wikia.com/wiki/BOB) ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1102 "2012-06-08T13:52:40Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > No, it is population characteristics. What is population characteristics? Can you give me a couple examples so I know what you are referring to? > [@](#): > > It is simply you do not understand the subject and make errors based on that. No, the problem is that the “anti-racists” do not understand the subject and are therefore unable to provide clear definitions and clear answers to reasonable questions. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1103 "2012-06-08T13:55:51Z")
It is already provided in the links about distribution frequencies. It is clear that you are not reading anything but think you are being very clever. The answers are clear, it is not the fault of the others that you are either very stupid and can not understand or you are making deliberate problems. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1104 "2012-06-08T14:19:27Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > It is already provided in the links about distribution frequencies. i.e. you have no idea what you are talking about. > [@](#): > > It is clear that you are not reading anything but think you are being very clever. i.e. you have no actual substantive response and no clear answers to the simple, reasonable questions I have asked. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1105 "2012-06-08T14:33:39Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > i.e. you have no idea what you are talking about. It is more that I see no reason to waste time retyping the information you can find easily by reading the links that have been given to you. Since you do not wish to learn but you only want to try to make empty arguments, it is a waste of time. > [@](#): > > i.e. you have no actual substantive response and no clear answers to the simple, reasonable questions I have asked. I think it very funny that you believe you are making great points here. Your game of restatements and false questions is quite evident to everyone. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1106 "2012-06-08T14:39:16Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > It is more that I see no reason to waste time retyping the information you can find easily by reading the links that have been given to you. Yes, it’s so hard to cut and paste a quote and the provide a link to it. NDD made an excellent point about people who simply cite to an entire book. The same principle applies here: If all you can do is vaguely wave your hands in the direction of some source which supposedly contains killer evidence and arguments, then you have lost the argument. > [@](#): > > Since you do not wish to learn You are the one who does not wish to learn since you don’t want to have your arguments scrutinized. You would rather just vaguely wave your hands. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1107 "2012-06-08T14:51:12Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > You are the one who does not wish to learn since you don’t want to have your arguments scrutinized. You would rather just vaguely wave your hands. On a number of occasions I have been told that I do not understand how populations evolve, but I have not been told what I do not understand. Anyone who says that a small gene pool evolves faster than a large gene pool because beneficial genes are dispersed and absorbed in a large gene pool clearly does not understand the process of evolution. In a large gene pool there will be more beneficial mutations. These will spread to a larger population. This is why, as the human population has grown, evolution has accelerated. Nevertheless, the evolution of beneficial qualities, like intelligence, has not happened with the same velocity in every racial group because population pressures have been different. Even here, there are specific exceptions. Because the Ashkenazim were placed in an environment where they _had_ to be intelligent in order to survive and reproduce, they did develop an average level of intelligence that was superior to that of the Gentiles with whom they lived closely, even though the Gentile population was larger. What matters is the size of the gene pool _and_ the population pressures on that gene pool. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1108 "2012-06-08T14:55:16Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Ok, so your position is that if there are two groups of people, Group A and Group B; and there are people in group B who are genetically more different from eachother than they are different from people in Group A; and one observes a gap between Group A and Group B in terms of some trait; then it cannot be the case that the difference is in large part the result of genetics. > > Is that your position? And Group A and Group B also significantly differ on another trait, and that trait otherwise explains variance in the first trait, it’s your position that it can only be genetics that explains the variation in the first trait? ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1109 "2012-06-08T15:00:21Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > And Group A and Group B also significantly differ on another trait, and that trait otherwise explains variance in the first trait, it’s your position that it can only be genetics that explains the variation in the first trait? No it is not. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1110 "2012-06-08T15:06:51Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Yes, it’s so hard to cut and paste a quote and the provide a link to it. You were given a link to a very clear paragraph that tells you what you claim to want to know in one paragraph. I consider it a sign of bad faith, the way you proceed. It is not someone in good faith who acts like you do. One click and you have your information. The information on the frequency of haplogroups is there. > [@](#): > > then you have lost the argument. Yes, this is your game, to make lots of postures and engage in rhetoric so you can ‘win.’ It is boring and not convincing. > [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > On a number of occasions I have been told that I do not understand how populations evolve, but I have not been told what I do not understand. You have. You rejected ad hoc what does not fit your ideas. Like your strange claims about criminalities, that have no consistencies. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1111 "2012-06-08T15:09:37Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Even here, there are specific exceptions. Because the Ashkenazim were placed in an environment where they _had_ to be intelligent in order to survive and reproduce, they did develop an average level of intelligence that was superior to that of the Gentiles with whom they lived closely, even though the Gentile population was larger. Well one can ask what would have happened if Ahkenazim and European Gentiles were isolated from each other but subject to the same evolutionary pressure to be smart. My guess is that the Gentiles would have ended up a bit smarter since they would have had a bigger genetic pool to draw upon in the search for genetic improvements which make you smart. On the other hand, during the same time there might very well be more random drift among the Ashkenazim. Not that any of this really matters to the subject at hand since the overwhelming evidence indicates that racial intelligence gaps have a large genetic component. Any argument that it could not have happened must founder on the reality that it did indeed happen. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1112 "2012-06-08T15:12:42Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > You were given a link to a very clear paragraph that tells you what you claim to want to know in one paragraph. Please give me the link and quote this paragraph. All it will take is 10 seconds of your time. > [@](#): > > Yes, this is your game, to make lots of postures and engage in rhetoric so you can ‘win.’ If you make a ridiculously weak argument, i.e. your vague hand-waving, it’s reasonable of me to point it out. If you find this “boring,” you are perfectly free to leave the discussion. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1113 "2012-06-08T15:14:43Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > On a number of occasions I have been told that I do not understand how populations evolve, but I have not been told what I do not understand. > > Anyone who says that a small gene pool evolves faster than a large gene pool because beneficial genes are dispersed and absorbed in a large gene pool clearly does not understand the process of evolution. In a large gene pool there will be more beneficial mutations. These will spread to a larger population. > > This is why, as the human population has grown, evolution has accelerated. Nevertheless, the evolution of beneficial qualities, like intelligence, has not happened with the same velocity in every racial group because population pressures have been different. You’re making things up- what is the measure of evolution “speed”? What data do you have on evolution “speed”? What evidence do you have that evolution has “accelerated” for humans since our population has grown? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1114 "2012-06-08T15:14:57Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > To do that, one would need to set forth the criteria for determining whether whether a “grouping” exists on a “meaningful genetic basis.” > > People have tried to do essentially that, but then they start getting very evasive when I try to nail down their position. Tell ya what, **brazil84** : when you start asking **New Deal Democrat** these questions, since his are the original claims we’re discussing, we’ll come back to play your little games. He said there are races with genetic differences. He needs to explain how that’s remotely possible if they don’t have the same genes. He has yet to do so. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1115 "2012-06-08T15:16:21Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Not that any of this really matters to the subject at hand since the overwhelming evidence indicates that racial intelligence gaps have a large genetic component. Any argument that it could not have happened must founder on the reality that it did indeed happen. Nope, no evidence of this. There needs to be actual genetic evidence for an argument about a genetic component. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1116 "2012-06-08T15:20:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Nope, no evidence of this. There needs to be actual genetic evidence for an argument about a genetic component. Personally I blame it on an excess of phlogiston in the aether. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1117 "2012-06-08T15:22:00Z")
Posts 1098 and 1100 today by iiandyiii both contain direct links, that we know you did not look at since they go directly to the relevant paragraphs in each case. They would take you ten seconds perhaps to click. I need no greater evidence that you are playing rhetoric games and have no honest argument. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1118 "2012-06-08T15:37:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > [More](http://www.nature.com/jhg/journal/v53/n4/abs/jhg200837a.html) about the Han Chinese population’s “coherent genetic structure”. Instead of posting a link with the implication, “The truth is here,” compose your own arguments, using the links to substantiate specific factual assertions. If you cannot do that I suspect you do not really understand the link, or its relevance to the discussion. Ashkenazi Jews have genetic markers that point to the Israelites who lived in Israel 3,000 years ago, and to other populations. What matters about them is that they have the highest average IQ of any racial group, and that this can be explained by fairly unique population pressures lasting from at least the fall of the Western Roman Empire to the eighteenth century Enlightenment. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1119 "2012-06-08T15:38:20Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > On a number of occasions I have been told that I do not understand how populations evolve, but I have not been told what I do not understand. Yes you have. You either ignore it or are too fucking stupid to understand it. > [@](#): > > Anyone who says that a small gene pool evolves faster than a large gene pool because beneficial genes are dispersed and absorbed in a large gene pool clearly does not understand the process of evolution. This is supremely ironic considering your utter lack of understanding of evolution or genetics. > [@](#): > > In a large gene pool there will be more beneficial mutations. These will spread to a larger population. Not necessarily. > [@](#): > > This is why, as the human population has grown, evolution has accelerated. Nevertheless, the evolution of beneficial qualities, like intelligence, has not happened with the same velocity in every racial group because population pressures have been different. Complete fabricated bullshit. > [@](#): > > Even here, there are specific exceptions. Because the Ashkenazim were placed in an environment where they _had_ to be intelligent in order to survive and reproduce, they did develop an average level of intelligence that was superior to that of the Gentiles with whom they lived closely, even though the Gentile population was larger. Ditto. > [@](#): > > What matters is the size of the gene pool _and_ the population pressures on that gene pool. I’m not even sure what “population pressures” is intended to mean. But it doesn’t matter, since it’s obvious you’re just making shit up as you go along. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2012, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1120 "2012-06-08T15:41:17Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Instead of posting a link with the implication, “The truth is here,” compose your own arguments, using the links to substantiate specific factual assertions. If you cannot do that I suspect you do not really understand the link, or its relevance to the discussion. > > Ashkenazi Jews have genetic markers that point to the Israelites who lived in Israel 3,000 years ago, and to other populations. What matters about them is that they have the highest average IQ of any racial group, and that this can be explained by fairly unique population pressures lasting from at least the fall of the Western Roman Empire to the eighteenth century Enlightenment. That link was just meant to answer a question about Han Chinese population genetics. My over-arching point (lately) has been that because some “black” populations are closer, genetically, to Eurasian populations than to certain other “black” populations, one cannot talk about “black” or “sub-Saharan African” genetics as if they are separate from non-“black” or non “sub-Saharan African” genetics. It’s possible to have a group (which is genetically coherent) that includes all “sub-Saharan African” populations, but it also must include all Eurasians as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489.md?page=55) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489.md?page=57)