# SDMB Bigoted Asshole Omnibus Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 29, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489 "2012-05-29T22:59:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 61
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1201 "2012-06-10T00:59:59Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > This poster is on my ignore list because of his dishonesty. If anyone who is not on my ignore list wants, I am happy to provide links and quotes. Ok, please provide links and quotes. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1202 "2012-06-10T01:46:30Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > … > > So how do you explain the IQ gap that seems pretty well documented by NDD? This is a good rundown on the US black white test score gap: [The U.S. Black/White Test-Score Gap (E2) – backintyme](http://backintyme.wordpress.com/article/the-u-s-black-white-test-score-gap-e2-k16kl3c2f2au-21/) Essentially, the gap exists, it’s significant, it’s not genetic. It’s not observed uniformly across all populations of African descent, and degrees of African descent vary widely among people who called/or are called “black”. I’ll add that the real gap is now about 11 points, not 15, and that it varies from state to state, with the lowest recently observed gap being 8 points, 92 vs 100, in Nebraska. No one really disputes that black American women are more likely than whites and other ethnic groups to miscarry pregnancies, and that black American women are more likely to have pregnancies involving vitamin deficiencies that affect fetal development. Once born, black infants have higher mortality rates. Black children are more likely to be neglected and abused by their parents, and more likely to be abandoned outright. Black American women have higher abortion rates than either white or Hispanic women, and those black children that are born are typically born to never married mothers (over 2/3’s of the births). These are pregnancies and births occurring in suboptimal conditions much or most of the time. Leaving aside for the time being ethical judgments and questions of blame, it isn’t hugely surprising that this cohort would score poorly on standardized tests. My personal opinions: we are probably looking at a gradient effect within the black American population. College educated black women don’t reproduce at anywhere near the replacement level. Poor black women have a lot more kids, so every new generation starts more or less at zero without much in the way of cultural or economic capital. There is also the question of neuro-plasticity: the way the very structure of the brain changes due to interaction with the environment. Someone born blind who suddenly regains sight at fifteen still won’t be able to see in the way that we do. The parts of the brain that process visual stimuli simply didn’t develop, and at fifteen, it’s too late. Analogous processes are at work for proficiency in musical performance and speaking languages. After puberty, it’s almost impossible to learn to speak a foreign language without an accent, or to begin mastering a musical instrument for the highest levels of classical performance. You may very well have the innate musical ability to play the cello like Yo Yo Ma, or the trumpet like Wynton Marsalis, but you’ll never do it if you start at 25. Another factor may be social status. We know that social status in and of itself can have significant effects on health. Does the social status of the mother affect the development of the fetus? It appears to do so in baboons. Maybe it works the same way for other social primates. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1203 "2012-06-10T02:04:32Z")
> **[The Black-White Test Score Gap](https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/j/jencks-gap.html)** > [@](#): > > Although racially mixed children are culturally black in America, and are almost always raised by black parents in black communities, this is not true everywhere. Klans Eyferth studied the illegitimate children of black and white soldiers stationed in Germany as part of the army of occupation after World War II. All these children were raised by their German mothers. There was considerable prejudice against blacks in Germany at the time, and any child of a German mother who looked black was also presumed to be illegitimate, which carried additional stigma. But mixed-race German children did not attend predominantly black schools, live in black neighborhoods, or (presumably) have predominantly black (or mixed-race) friends. When Eyferth gave these children a German version of the Wechsler IQ test, children with black fathers and white fathers had almost identical scores. > > ``` > Taken in isolation, none of these studies would carry much weight. The samples are small, and the comparisons could be distorted by unmeasured genetic or environmental influences. But Nisbett argues that their consistency gives them far more weight that they would have if taken one by one. We agree. We read these studies as supporting three tentative conclusions: > > --When "black" genes are not visible to the naked eye and are not associated with membership in a black community, they do not have much effect on young children's test scores. > > --Growing up in an African-American rather than a European-American family substantially reduces a young child's test performance. > > --When black Americans raised in white families reach adolescence, their test scores fall. > > These studies do not prove that blacks and whites would have exactly the same test scores if they were raised in the same environment and treated the same way. But we find it hard to see how anyone reading these studies with an open mind could conclude that innate ability played a large role in the black-white gap. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1204 "2012-06-10T03:12:41Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > [The Black-White Test Score Gap](http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/j/jencks-gap.html) Nice. This confirms my assumptions that American society and culture, both black and white, keeps blacks down. ---
**Author:** ![Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/malleus_incus_stapes/32/3293_2.png) [@Malleus\_Incus\_Stapes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malleus_Incus_Stapes)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1205 "2012-06-10T03:52:36Z")
Since **NDD** \*\*\*\* keeps bringing up Ashkenazim, can I point out that Ashkenazi Jews are extremely inbred? The whole lot of us came from just four female ancestors. If there are genes for intelligence or genetic disorders or being able to wiggle your ears or whatever, it makes sense that those genes would spread quickly through the population. Talking about “whites”, “blacks”, and “Orientals” is nowhere in the same _solar system_ as talking about European Jewry. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1206 "2012-06-10T09:57:20Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > It makes no impact because not a one of them has ever spent enough time in the wild to know how difficult it is to survive there without training and experience. > > You don’t find a lot of virulent racists among those who can truly rough it. Guys like that usually have learned their tracking/survival skilla either from local tribesmen, or from people who learned directly from local tribesmen. > > It’s hard to be a virulent racist when you’ve actually carefully studied the survival methods of traditional tribes. My point is that IQ tests measure one’s ability to learn what matters in an urban civilization. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1207 "2012-06-10T11:00:19Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > My point is that IQ tests measure one’s ability to learn what matters in an urban civilization. Yet another thing you’re just making up. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1208 "2012-06-10T13:11:00Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > My point is that IQ tests measure one’s ability to learn what matters in an urban civilization. You have three constructs in your hypothesis - race, IQ, and genetics. You’ve shown that you actually have no idea what any of those three are ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1209 "2012-06-10T13:39:16Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > You have three constructs in your hypothesis - race, IQ, and genetics. You’ve shown that you actually have no idea what any of those three are Now, now, don’t sell him short. He’s amply demonstrated there was a whole breadth of topics he’s wholly ignorant of - statistics, history, inductive reasoning, formal logic, informal logic, downright undignified logic… ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1210 "2012-06-10T13:51:56Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > You have three constructs in your hypothesis - race, IQ, and genetics. You’ve shown that you actually have no idea what any of those three are Not only this, but even if these three data sets were valid enough to include as statistical evidence to supports his thesis, three data points is nothing! Especially if he’s dragging a genetic component into it. Which he is. And so far, all scientific research that’s been put into it shows we’re a polytypic species, with no sub-species. **Concluded:** Race exists as a social and cultural phenomena, propagated mostly in part of our gregarious mentality, and segregated for the same reasons. Race is self-reinforcing, because of social, environmental, economical, cultural and discriminatory factors. When humankind have hierarchies and classes in their societies, by definition there always must be a group of people on the bottom. A minority, if you will. **NDD** are the kind who try to justify his view of the minority as inferior, by employing egregious tautological and circular logic and not factoring the painfully obvious motivation of people at the top who are hell-bent on staying at the top because of their powerful position that is all too easily abused through cynical and inhumane ideology, taking their lot in life for granted or even dumb indifference; thereby keeping those groups under their collective thumbs. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1211 "2012-06-10T13:57:35Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Now, now, don’t sell him short. He’s amply demonstrated there was a whole breadth of topics he’s wholly ignorant of - statistics, history, inductive reasoning, formal logic, informal logic, downright undignified logic… You do not prove that by asserting it. I have actually been fairly skilled at exposing the logical fallacies of those who disagree with me. I know quite a bit about world history, and how some races distinguished themselves, while others have not. I also understand the evolutionary process. Genes that enhance survival and reproduction tend to be bred into a population. Some racial groups have higher average intelligence than others because for hundreds or even thousands of years superior intelligence gave them more of a competitive advantage. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1212 "2012-06-10T14:04:45Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > I have actually been fairly skilled at exposing the logical fallacies of those who disagree with me. > > I know quite a bit about world history, and how some races distinguished themselves, while others have not. > > I also understand the evolutionary process. You do not prove that by asserting it. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1213 "2012-06-10T16:05:13Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > There is also the question of neuro-plasticity: the way the very structure of the brain changes due to interaction with the environment. Someone born blind who suddenly regains sight at fifteen still won’t be able to see in the way that we do. The parts of the brain that process visual stimuli simply didn’t develop, and at fifteen, it’s too late. Analogous processes are at work for proficiency in musical performance and speaking languages. After puberty, it’s almost impossible to learn to speak a foreign language without an accent, or to begin mastering a musical instrument for the highest levels of classical performance. You may very well have the innate musical ability to play the cello like Yo Yo Ma, or the trumpet like Wynton Marsalis, but you’ll never do it if you start at 25. Well, someone paid attention to the lecture on **sensitive** and **critical periods** in their developmental behaviour class; and there’s plenty of examples of both, in humans and other animals. Simplified, a **critical period** is known as a point of time in a youth’s development where a behavourial trait/skill must become imprinted or else it won’t develop. A **sensitive period** is known as a point of time in a youth’s development where they are most receptive to imprint a particular behavourial trait/skill. An example of a **critical period** in animals is the short few days newly hatched geese have to imprint “parent figure” on any close thing that might/might not squawk; in Humans it’s normally first language acquisition in prepubescent children (studied from the few [feral children](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_child) that have been discovered). A good example of a [sensitive period](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitive_period) in humans is the second language acquisition example you’ve given above (in addition to your other motor coordination and musical example). To run with your neuro-developmental example, if you are one of the ~3% of the population that suffer from “[lazy eye](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amblyopia)” it could be due to your brain shutting off function of one eye during an important period in your visual development. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1214 "2012-06-10T17:16:35Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > I know quite a bit about world history, and how some races distinguished themselves, while others have not. > > I also understand the evolutionary process. Both of these statements are contradicted by your postings in this thread. You aren’t very bright, are you? But you try hard, and that’s worth something. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1215 "2012-06-10T17:57:35Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > You do not prove that by asserting it. The irony, it burns. There is ample evidence for the assertions in this thread alone. > [@](#): > > I have actually been fairly skilled at exposing the logical fallacies of those who disagree with me. Add delusional to the description. > [@](#): > > I know quite a bit about world history, and how some races distinguished themselves, while others have not. Given that by the definitions you yourself cite the black and Oriental races don’t exist, that conclusion cannot include either of those groups. > [@](#): > > I also understand the evolutionary process. Genes that enhance survival and reproduction tend to be bred into a population. Some racial groups have higher average intelligence than others because for hundreds or even thousands of years superior intelligence gave them more of a competitive advantage. You’ve demonstrated utter ignorance of the evolutionary process and a complete unwillingness to learn anything about it. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1216 "2012-06-10T18:37:34Z")
Protip to NDD, \*\*Colibri \*\*has a Ph.D. in biology. It is like watching the NDD T-ball team vs the \*\*Colibri \*\*Giants. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1217 "2012-06-10T19:20:08Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > You do not prove that by asserting it. But… But, he has [this](http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/) website bookmarked! ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1218 "2012-06-10T19:44:52Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Both of these statements are contradicted by your postings in this thread. You aren’t very bright, are you? It’s like I’ve been saying. Dunning-Kruger like a motherfuck up in here. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1219 "2012-06-10T19:56:59Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > It is like watching the NDD T-ball team vs the \*\*Colibri \*\*Giants. 🙂 You and others have made a lot more substantive contributions. But engaging NDD (or brazil) in a battle of minds is like fighting an unarmed man. > [@](#): > > Protip to NDD, \*\*Colibri \*\*has a Ph.D. in biology. I think the average seventh grader could run rings around both NDD and brazil. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1220 "2012-06-10T20:03:53Z")
Here and in the [GD thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=653191) (now up to 11 pages), I think **NDD** is adopting the classic **brazil84** strategy: [Gish-Gallop](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_gallop) and [PRATT](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/PRATT) over and over and over again until everybody else gets sick of posting, then get the last post in and declare victory. > [@](#): > > The **Gish Gallop** is a skeptics’ jargon term, named after creationist Duane Gish, for the debating technique of drowning the opponent in such a torrent of half-truths, lies, and straw-man arguments that the opponent cannot possibly answer every falsehood in real time. The term was coined by Eugenie Scott from the National Center for Science Education. > > The debating jargon term for this is **spreading.** You can hear some mindboggling examples here. It arose as a way to throw as much rubbish into five minutes as possible. In response, some debate judges now limit number of arguments as well as time. > [@](#): > > A **point refuted a thousand times,** commonly abbreviated as **PRATT,** is a common phrase on internet forums where debates have a tendency to go in circles. Once people have refuted a point the first thousand times, it’s hard for them to muster the motivation to do it again. Once someone has labeled an argument a PRATT, that usually means they have no interest in discussing it. This could itself be a diversionary tactic. > > The website talk.origins acts as a repository of PRATTs commonly used by creationists, and presents (usually in great detail) their refutations and science behind them. The site is a good starting point when facing a PRATT. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489.md?page=60) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489.md?page=62)