# SDMB Bigoted Asshole Omnibus Thread **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 29, 2012, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489 "2012-05-29T22:59:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 72
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1421 "2012-06-12T02:17:53Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Just be happy in your shrinking circle **Mr. Boo**. Sorry, my mistake, in Yellow Submarine Jeremy was also _Mr. Boob_\*\*. More appropriate… .. indeed. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1422 "2012-06-12T02:46:20Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And I know that already Jeremy. The point of the nowhere man is that the circles become smaller as time goes by and ending as a fellow of a denier stink thank is a \*\*demonstration \*\*of that. > > Just be happy in your shrinking circle **Mr. Boo**. Charles Murray is a respected political scientist. If the Republicans sweep the next election he will play a major role in Republican efforts to put an end to Aid to Dependent Children, while increasing the likelihood and severity of punishment. Life will become unpleasant for ghetto thugs. Those are directions we are moving in anyway. Charles Murray provides the scientific rationale for what most Americans want to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1423 "2012-06-12T03:04:09Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > I have been flamed, but not refuted. You haven’t posted anything that really needs to be refuted. You’re only posting your personal opinions, devoid of any real evidence, and those only deserve to be condemned, not refuted. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1424 "2012-06-12T03:13:53Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Charles Murray is a respected political scientist. Not even that. > **[Charles Murray's Unreal Towns](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/charles-murray-coming-apart_b_1294493)** > > In his new book, Coming Apart, Charles Murray says that working-class whites are getting dumber and losing traditional values such as marriage, hard work and church-going. > [@](#): > > “Fishtown” sounds suspiciously like a poor black urban neighborhood and it illustrates a long standing narrative of the right: that if white people don’t uphold strict conservative values, especially sexual ones, they will descend to the ghetto, with its range of social pathologies. > > This is the subtext of Murray’s argument, though he doesn’t say it explicitly. Race got him into so much trouble last tine out that he’s gun-shy. Serious scholars tore apart the "science " of “The Bell Curve” and accused Murray of massaging his stats to match his ideology – which is what he’s doing again. > [@](#): > > And many working-class areas are doing OK, despite the economic stress. East Boston, virtually around the corner from where I live, has been a haven for immigrants since the early 1900s, as waves of Jews, irish and then Italians swept in. It’s a blue-collar neighborhood, one of the places that should be Murray’s “Fishtown.” But a new wave of Hispanic immigrants is revitalizing the place, with people from El Salvador, Brazil, Puerto Rico, Colombia and Brazil now living – mostly amicably – alongside the Italians who were the predominant group until fairly recently. Mexican, Brazilian, and Peruvian restaurants and Latin American bakeries are springing up all over and the neighborhood is becoming a Latino cultural center. You can’t just talk about whites when you look at working-class neighborhoods. > > So don’t buy Belmont or Fishtown. They are about as real as Brigadoon, which, you may recall, appeared only once every hundred years. > > Too bad Murray’s books don’t come out at the same rate. But everyone can see that you have reduced yourself to defend outfits that also work to deny global warming, the punishment coming for the inaction they propose will not care about any divisions that you are proposing **Mr. Boob.** ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1425 "2012-06-12T06:53:43Z")
What in the blue fuck are they talking about? Are brazil84 and NDD the biggest idiots in the history of idiots? I’m not surprised this thread is ever growing because rarely do we ever get such scum of the earth opinions, nonsense, and babbling, juvenile rhetoric from not just one, but two completely vapid morons who somehow leap frog over their own stupidity with every post they make. This continues to prove a curious exposition on some of the most clueless rejects humanity has to offer, by continuing to dole out the rope, page after page, for them to hang themselves with. But they’re so dumb, they don’t realize they’ve meeted out enough rope to hang themselves 1000 times over. Congratulations **b84** and **NDD** on being probably the two most pathetic people on the internet to demonstrate to the world just how dumb and repugnant you are. Here’s a clue that you won’t get: those of us who aren’t actively participating with you two in this thread are laughing in derision at your idiocy on display. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1426 "2012-06-12T09:39:28Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > I have been flamed, but not refuted. You have been refuted many times. Again and again you can not respond to the genetic data that is presented that shows no coherence in your 19e century races. You make strange assertions about crimiinality and these outdated race ideas, and fail to respond even to the basic evidnece that makes nonesense of your claims, as the criminality evidence and your races. And this is without even getting to the nonsense and lack of logic to connections with the genetic data. It is all a just so story you are making up as you go along to justify your archaic prejudices. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1427 "2012-06-12T10:27:14Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > I have been flamed, but not refuted. You’re not being flamed, you’re being ridiculed. It’s an important distinction. ---
**Author:** ![New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/9d8465/32.png) [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Deal_Democrat)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1428 "2012-06-12T10:29:43Z")
> [@Belowjob2.0](#): > > The test score gap is primarily an American phenomenon. In Britain, for example, the real laggards are poor white boys, who test behind everyone else, and appear to be falling further behind. > > [Working class white boys still at bottom of learning table, despite millions spent by Labour | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1343231/Working-class-white-boys-learning-table-despite-millions-spent-Labour.html) > > [Half school 'failures' are white working-class boys, says report | UK news | The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2007/jun/22/education.schools) This paper reports an analysis of the educational attainment and progress between age 11 and age 14 of over 14,500 students from the nationally representative Longitudinal Study of Young People in England (LSYPE). The mean attainment gap in national tests at age 14 between White British and several ethnic minority groups were large, more than three times the size of the gender gap, but at the same time only about one-third of the size of the social class gap… Broadly speaking, the mean scores of Black Caribbean, Black African, Black Other, Pakistani and Bangladeshi students are below the mean for their White British peers, while the mean scores for Chinese, Indian and Irish students are higher than the mean of their White British peers… Phillips, Brooks-Gunn, Duncan, Klebanov and Crane (1998) in an extensive analysis of the survey of the Children of the National Longitudinal Study of Youth (CNLSY) report traditional socio-economic measures account for no more than one-third of the Black-White test score gap at age 5/6 years… Analyses were completed separately for each of the English, mathematics and science tests. The results revealed a consistent picture with the mean scores for Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Black Caribbean and Black African groups significantly lower than for White British students in all three subjects… The Black Caribbean coefficient has only dropped by 25% from -3.3 to -2.5 points and is still substantially below the White British mean even after accounting for the social class of the home, gender, maternal education, entitlement to FSM, home ownership and single parent status… the success of the model in accounting for the low attainment of Black Caribbean and Black African students is much smaller. Even after including all the contextual variables these groups are still achieving around -2.5 points less than would be expected given their family, student, school and neighbourhood context… Socio-economic status therefore does not provide an adequate account of all ethnic group differences in attainment at age 14… Phillips et al. (1998) report that socio-economic status, including racial disparities in family income, wealth, parental education and school resources, explain only about a third of the black-white test score gap for six year olds, and conclude that **“reducing economic inequality between black and white parents would probably not reduce the black-white gap much”.** > **[WRAP\_Strand\_limits\_Social\_Class.pdf](https://wrap.warwick.ac.uk/id/eprint/2363/1/WRAP_Strand_limits_Social_Class.pdf)** > > 298.84 KB ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1429 "2012-06-12T11:07:40Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > This paper reports an analysis of the educational attainment and progress between age 11 and age 14 of over 14,500 students from the nationally representative Longitudinal Study of Young People in England (LSYPE). The mean attainment gap in national tests at age 14 between White British and several ethnic minority groups were large, more than three times the size of the gender gap, but at the same time only about one-third of the size of the social class gap… > > Broadly speaking, the mean scores of Black Caribbean, Black African, Black Other, Pakistani and Bangladeshi students are below the mean for their White > British peers, while the mean scores for Chinese, Indian and Irish students are higher than the mean of their White British peers… > > Phillips, Brooks-Gunn, Duncan, Klebanov and Crane (1998) in an extensive analysis of the survey of the Children of the National Longitudinal Study of Youth (CNLSY) report traditional socio-economic measures account for no more than one-third of the Black-White test score gap at age 5/6 years… > > Analyses were completed separately for each of the English, mathematics and science tests. The results revealed a consistent picture with the mean scores for Pakistani, Bangladeshi, Black Caribbean and Black African groups significantly lower than for White British students in all three subjects… > > The Black Caribbean coefficient has only dropped by 25% from -3.3 to -2.5 points and is still substantially below the White British mean even after accounting for the social class of the home, gender, maternal education, entitlement to FSM, home ownership and single parent status… > > the success of the model in accounting for the low attainment of Black Caribbean and Black African students is much smaller. Even after including all the contextual variables these groups are still achieving around -2.5 points less than would > be expected given their family, student, school and neighbourhood context… > > Socio-economic status therefore does not provide an adequate account of all ethnic group differences in attainment at age 14… > > Phillips et al. (1998) report that socio-economic status, including racial disparities in family income, wealth, parental education and school resources, explain only about a third of the black-white test score gap for six year olds, and conclude that **“reducing economic inequality between black and white parents would probably not reduce the black-white gap much”.** > [http://wrap.warwick.ac.uk/2363/1/WRAP\_Strand\_limits\_Social\_Class.pdf](http://wrap.warwick.ac.uk/2363/1/WRAP_Strand_limits_Social_Class.pdf) None of this says anything at all about genetics. Also, the conclusions of the Daily Mail link posted by **Belowjob2.0** are the opposite- in that study, poor white kids actually do _worse_ in school than poor black kids. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1430 "2012-06-12T11:13:36Z")
[QUOTE=NDD] Broadly speaking, the mean scores of […]Pakistani and Bangladeshi students are below the mean for their White British peers, while the mean scores for […] Indian […] students are higher than the mean of their White British peers… [/QUOTE] …hence any genetic explanation is bullshit? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1431 "2012-06-12T11:39:51Z")
**NDD** , the problem is that you are treating the proposition that “observed differences between populations are due to genetic factors” as the null hypothesis when in fact the opposite is so\*, and “observed differences are due to genetic factors” is that which is to be demonstrated. Since you like logical fallacies so much, [I’ll point you at the relevant one](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question). Or, to look at it another way, your application of the scientific method is lacking. Let’s look at the basic steps (borrowed from Wikipedia for simplicity’s [sic] sake): 1. Formulate a question 2. Hypothesis 3. Prediction 4. Test 5. Analysis Your argument goes: 1. What causes the observed differences in certain populations? 2. They are caused by genetic differences. 3. You don’t really make a prediction unless you count “Eugenics will reduce crime rates”. 4. Since testing the above prediction would involve genocide, I’m afraid you’re out of luck. And we’ve already discussed the problems with Lynn and Rushton’s efforts. 5. [del]PROFIT!!![/del] See #4. In fact, pretty much everything you’ve posted has involved steps 1 and 2 and left the rest as an exercise for the reader. So your argument fails on logical grounds and fails on scientific grounds. And note that we don’t have to come up with an alternative theory for your argument to fail; it fails on its own merits and demerits. But hey, thanks for playing. - By which I mean "“observed differences between populations are NOT due to genetic factors”, which is not the same as propositions such as “observed differences between populations are due to [some other factor]” or “no signficant genetic differences exist between populations” which would also have to be proved. ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1432 "2012-06-12T11:47:07Z")
Why are you people even engaging this guy? He’s an admitted dyed in the wool racist and that’s not going to change. I know we fight ignorance, but come on. Pick your battles. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1433 "2012-06-12T11:54:59Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > Why are you people even engaging this guy? He’s an admitted dyed in the wool racist and that’s not going to change. I know we fight ignorance, but come on. Pick your battles. For me, I enjoy it. And I believe the best way to defeat pseudoscientific thinking (like “race realism”) is to challenge it and pick it apart. I don’t expect I’ll change NDD’s mind, but hopefully other readers might learn something from this thread on how to challenge and pick apart such thinking. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1434 "2012-06-12T11:58:32Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > Why are you people even engaging this guy? He’s an admitted dyed in the wool racist and that’s not going to change. I know we fight ignorance, but come on. Pick your battles. I honestly do it because I enjoy seeing racists squirm. It’s obviously bugging him like crazy that we don’t think he’s right, and that we can so easily refute him. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1435 "2012-06-12T12:14:06Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > …hence any genetic explanation is bullshit? You are clearly not yet aware of the Bangledeshis are secretely a black people explanation even though they are closer to his Chinese orientals. And Pakistanis are too also secretly a black people. Or the alternative demarche he has used that the genetic explanations are only preferred if they fit elderly american racial prejudices, but then if they do not there is no genetic explanaiton. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1436 "2012-06-12T12:17:54Z")
> [@A Monkey With a Gun](#): > > Why are you people even engaging this guy? He’s an admitted dyed in the wool racist and that’s not going to change. I know we fight ignorance, but come on. Pick your battles. Personally? Because the PTB decline to ban his particular brand of racist, so there’s a chance that some less-educated lurker might actually think there’s the tiniest smidgeon of truth in some of his cites and “arguments” if they remain unchallenged. And I know all to well what it’s like when racists actually get their way with putting their principles in practice. Unequal education and laws (such as **NDD** had the gall to propose) set my country back decades. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1437 "2012-06-12T13:23:59Z")
“all **too** well”, damnit. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1438 "2012-06-12T13:40:10Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > …hence any genetic explanation is bullshit? One would think so, but he’ll no doubt be along shortly to claim that the study failed to correct for religious background, and everyone knows religion is genetic. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1439 "2012-06-12T14:20:01Z")
“I think he’s having a little trouble with his old brain injury, he’s going to have a go, no, no, bad luck, he’s up, he doesn’t know when he’s beaten, this boy, he doesn’t know when he’s winning either. He doesn’t have any sort of sensory apparatus.” - We all know where this comes from… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2012, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489/1440 "2012-06-12T14:28:47Z")
> [@New\_Deal\_Democrat](#): > > Rushton has said, “You can have a large penis, or a large brain. You can’t have both.” He says that large penises correlate with having illegitimate children, while large brains correlate with superior intelligence. Are you under the impression that this is somehow a convincing argument? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489.md?page=71) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-bigoted-asshole-omnibus-thread/623489.md?page=73)