# SDMB Charging for Access - Comments **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [November 9, 2001, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-charging-for-access-comments/92489 "2001-11-09T19:17:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-charging-for-access-comments/92489/41 "2001-11-10T14:53:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose \* > **Frinkboy: Yes, a certain number of people will just go over to Fathom or the UnaBoard, but then Opal and Una will start having the same problems with server capacity, etc. that the SDMB is having, and they may have to change their registration policies, too.** I don’t know what Opal will do, but I posted on my Board that if I get a flood of people who are coming over just to avoid paying on the SDMB, and not because they really wanted to be over at my place (I think it’s called “slumming”?) I’ll just close registration for everyone. Then I’ll do what they did in _Idoru_, and invert the ban file - unless the Cash Fairy comes and buys me enormous bandwidth. I’m sure someone else will set up a server, but it won’t be the SDMB. I owe the SDMB a lot - if for nothing else, because the SDMB is directly responsible for giving me **Fierra**. But think on these things: I do not write this to convince those without funds and means, for those people are truly in a bind, and it would be cold and impolite of me to tell them to “dig up the money”. Instead, I direct this to those who simply object to a fee. Have you, in the time spent since you registered, not received at least $50 in value from being here? How much is a concise, exact answer to a question that is troubling you worth? How much are 100 answers? How much is it worth to be able to meet, debate, ask, and share knowledge with people from all over the World? How much is it worth to be able to have more than 100 people wish you a sincere “Happy Birthday”? How many times have you honestly laughed out loud at something you saw here? And kept laughing about it as the day went on, turning it over in your mind? Hellfire, laughs are rare enough for me; each one is worth nearly $5. How much is it worth to post about personal problems, sadness, fears, and uncertainties, and have numerous intelligent, kind, and honestly caring people respond with advice, inspiration, or at least commiseration? And come on, people. How many new friends, or people do you consider friends, do you have now as a result of the SDMB? How much is one good friend worth? Or, if nothing else, think of it as TV. Compare it to the cost of Cable, or Sat. How many hours do you spend over the year on the SDMB? How much would that have cost on Cable? Great Goddess, how much do _I, myself_, owe the SDMB? Many of us - not all, but many - owe them. We owe them this chance. Sign up the first year, give them the benefit of the doubt. If for no other reason than thanks for the past enjoyment, community, laughs, love, and friendship that is, or was, here. Give them a chance. One year at least. _Even if I never post or read again after the paid period starts_, I still will fund them that first year. Out of thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Slip\_Mahoney](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@Slip\_Mahoney](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slip_Mahoney)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-charging-for-access-comments/92489/42 "2001-11-10T15:00:05Z")
> [@](#): > > I heard somewhere that the Encyclopedia Britannica is thinking of charging for access, too They _used_ to charge for access, but apparently the light went on when they realized that you can get information on the net for free. **C K Dexter Haven,** point taken. Stupid keyboard. ---
**Author:** ![Nymysys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f6c823/32.png) [@Nymysys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nymysys)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-charging-for-access-comments/92489/43 "2001-11-10T15:18:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anthracite \* > **\** Una, that was great, and summed up what I’ve been turning over in my mind. This is an amazing community, and having just hit my one year SDMB birthday, I’ve reflected upon that a lot recently. Yes, this place will change if it goes pay. Yes, some great people will leave. Yes, new people registering will certainly go down. Will it be a _worse_ place? I don’t think we can really judge that. We can pretty much guarantee it will be different, though. Hell, some of the same people that used to hork me off singing of the halcyon days of when there were far fewer posters are now off complaining about how decreased membership will make us stagnant. I can’t understand the dichotomy. Regardless, I will, without one doubt, pay for the first year. After the first year, who knows? We will all, including the staff and administration of the SDMB, have to sit down and reevaluate at that time. This, to me, is in no way a bad thing. To reiterate what I said in another thread on this topic, we are looking down the barrel at the future. We have to change and grow, or we will probably die. Now, I’m off with **lno** to go visit my friend, **boli** in Iowa, along with my Chicago roommate, **VileOrb** for a fun weekend. In part thanks to **JoeyHemlock** , who is watching my dawg back in Chi. Yup, $50 ain’t no thang. ---
**Author:** ![ultress](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/7c8e57/32.png) [@ultress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultress)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-charging-for-access-comments/92489/44 "2001-11-10T16:00:00Z")
I would pay. I would hope that people would not flood your board, Una, or Opal’s, just because they are looking for a free place to lay. With the period of time that both those boards have been open, you can pretty much tell which Dopers pull that stunt. I know the board will change. Some people won’t pay. That’s their choice. We won’t get as many new people, but we will continue to get new ones. I don’t think the board will die. Too many people enjoy it. Just like when it moved from AOL to here. People were lost, people joined, people moved on. The same will happen if it goes to pay. It’s not like this is the first time this has come up. We talked about this last year too. I’d be willing to sponsor someone also. ---
**Author:** ![handy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5a626/32.png) [@handy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handy)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-charging-for-access-comments/92489/45 "2001-11-10T16:23:36Z")
Why now with the economy the way it is must they ask for funds? I’d be happy to buy a lifetime subscription just so I don’t have to deal with yearly renewals. I don’t know how much I would pay, considering my city just raised sewer taxes this year, far beyond pay raises. Plus, the note from Ed states they were just ‘thinking about it’ then goes to some page where you sign up, as if they were testing the waters? ---
**Author:** ![BooBoo316](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e0b2c6/32.png) [@BooBoo316](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BooBoo316)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-charging-for-access-comments/92489/46 "2001-11-10T16:35:15Z")
$20.00 a year - I’m in. $50.00 a year - I’m in. Donations for needy SDMBers - I’m in. This place (and the people who come here) is (are) worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-charging-for-access-comments/92489/47 "2001-11-10T16:45:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by handy \* > **Why now with the economy the way it is must they ask for funds?** I think you answered your own question. ---
**Author:** ![BooBoo316](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e0b2c6/32.png) [@BooBoo316](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BooBoo316)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-charging-for-access-comments/92489/48 "2001-11-10T16:49:55Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Anthracite \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by handy \* > > **Why now with the economy the way it is must they ask for funds?** > > I think you answered your own question. \*\* My thoughts exactly. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-charging-for-access-comments/92489/49 "2001-11-10T17:02:08Z")
> [@](#): > > _originally posted by Nymysys:_ > **…some of the same people that used to hork me off singing of the halcyon days of when there were far fewer posters are now off complaining about how decreased membership will make us stagnant. I can’t understand the dichotomy.** Me neither. I don’t remember exactly how many registered members the SDMB had when I first encountered it in the spring of 2000, but it was somewhere around half the number they have now. Would 7,000 to 8,000 sound about right, or am I not remembering it correctly? Anyway, it’s safe to say that the board has roughly doubled in size since I’ve been here, and lemme tell ya, it’s exactly the same board it was 18 months ago. Exactly the same smartass ambience, exactly the same fascinating mix of 10% total lunatics, 10% marginally functional, and 80% normal people who watch the antics of the other 20% with bemusement. Exactly the same capacity to move you to speechless “I’m removing you from my Favorites Folder” fury, and to wet-your-pants laughter. Sometimes at the same time. So I don’t see any really big changes looming in the board’s overall ambience, unless it turns out that, statistically speaking, it’s the very same people who are somehow, mysteriously, responsible for that ambience who are unwilling to pay to contribute to it. And that, IMO, would be something worth finding out. Let the experiment commence, say I. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-charging-for-access-comments/92489/50 "2001-11-10T17:07:14Z")
> [@](#): > > I heard somewhere that the Encyclopedia Britannica is thinking of charging for access, too > [@](#): > > They used to charge for access, but apparently the light went on when they realized that you can get information on the net for free. Not quite. They opened up the Encyclopædia for free around August 2000 (1999?) (leaving a number of “add-ons” in the subscription-only market). In September 2001, they modified the “free” stuff to include only the superficial articles. The in-depth articles are now subscription only. (I’m guessing that they based it on their old three-tiered encyclopedia arrangement. You can see the “macropedia” for free, but nothing more without paying.) The current system provides a nice hook. You can look up anything you wish, in order to discover that it exists, but it costs money to retrieve _information_ about it. ($50 annual, $7.95 monthly) ---
**Author:** ![Nacho4Sara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Nacho4Sara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nacho4Sara)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-charging-for-access-comments/92489/51 "2001-11-10T17:23:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Many of us - not all, but many - owe them. We owe them this chance. Sign up the first year, give them the benefit of the doubt. If for no other reason than thanks for the past enjoyment, community, laughs, love, and friendship that is, or was, here. > > Give them a chance. One year at least. Even if I never post or read again after the paid period starts, I still will fund them that first year. Out of thanks. I would love to fund them, but I simply cannot afford it. Don’t assume that some of us are unapppreciative of what the Board has done. I don’t have Dopers who I go on weekend trips with, but I do feel like I have a family here, and I’ll be sad if I have to go. I won’t accept a sponsership, for personal reasons, and there is honestly nothing I can do, short of not paying my car insurance for a month or defaulting on a student loan, to afford this. I would give anything to have an extra $20 that isn’t bookmarked for one bill or another, but I simply do not have the financial freedom to spend $20 on what has become a luxury. ---
**Author:** ![Wallenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b5a626/32.png) [@Wallenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallenstein)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-charging-for-access-comments/92489/52 "2001-11-10T17:26:52Z")
If the SDMB were to charge for access I’m not sure how the Pit would fare - I can’t imagine it remaining in its current form. If I had subscribed to a magazine or journal and contributed perhaps an article or letter, I would not expect to be called e.g. “a camel-f_lching kn_bhead” or similar when other readers disagree with my opinions. 🙂 I actually think this would be a positive improvement, but the character of the Boards would change considerably (IMO). Also, if I, say, asked a question in General Questions I would (perhaps) be unhappy with people “popping in” to leave a quick one-line witicism (however amusing :)) without contributing anything to the question under discussion. I can see why the Admins have suggested this step and I think it’s going to become unavoidable for many sites in the near future, but paying £50 p/a (or whatever) might prove to much for me (as a lowly student :D). I am a part-time lurker who posts occasionally when I know enough about a topic not to make a total fool of myself - I have a feeling that there are more of me/us around than people might think… – Quirm ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-charging-for-access-comments/92489/53 "2001-11-10T17:35:04Z")
**Nacho4Sara** , I think you missed this, and the other places I posted words _in support_ of people who could not afford to fund the Board: > [@](#): > > I do not write this to convince those without funds and means, for those people are truly in a bind, and it would be cold and impolite of me to tell them to “dig up the money”. **Instead, I direct this to those who simply object to a fee.** I know you’re in a couple arguments with people over the fee issue. It’s unfortunate that even though I’m trying to be extremely sensitive to and even stick up for the people that cannot afford it, like yourself and **pepperlandgirl** and **Speaker For the Dead** , that my sincere efforts and thoughts are being overlooked. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-charging-for-access-comments/92489/54 "2001-11-10T17:39:45Z")
I’m not trying to pick on you in any way, my friend **Sara** , I’m just trying to reinforce to you that I am not only not insensitive to your plight, it bothers me greatly that many will not be able to pay. And even as far back as the PBS fund drive thread I made, I posted my concerns about that. I do think, very unfortunately, that it will likely come down to two choices: 1. Funded SDMB. 2. No SDMB. And in this case, people who cannot afford it are stuck in a no-win scenario. I agree with you completely. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-charging-for-access-comments/92489/55 "2001-11-10T17:47:00Z")
I strongly recommend that the SDMB take a close look at the [Ars Technica](http://arstechnica.infopop.net/OpenTopic/page?a=cfrm&s=50009562) message boards. They have a large board, with certain forums sequestered for subscriptors. Members have an extra, jealousy-inducing title added to their user profiles, and they have posting priveleges in the “fun” forums. They also have a want-ad section, and a better, faster version of UBB. I see no reason why General Questions cannot be left open and religiously culled of crackpots, wankers, and juveniles, while Great Debates and IMHO can be self-policed and reserved for those willing to pay to opine. I will _not_ participate in any forum which requires me to use Microsoft Passport, and frankly I’ll need a lot more details about how my payment is going to be secured. Finally, there is _no way in hell_ that I’m going to pay to participate on this message board with the shitty, substandard hardware that is obviously being used to run this site. I’ll need full disclosure as to what hardware is currently being used, and what its replacement will be _before_ I subscribe. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-charging-for-access-comments/92489/56 "2001-11-10T17:52:59Z")
Just out of sheer curiosity, how much does 10 hours work per _year_ at the current US minimum wage equal ? Also, what does that mean per _week_ in terms of minutes worked and money earned ? ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-charging-for-access-comments/92489/57 "2001-11-10T17:55:56Z")
Depends on where you are at London. In CA min wage is 6.25. Next year i believe it will go up to 6.50, or maybe even 6.75. That’s substantially more than Utah, where the min wage was 5.25. However, it’s more expensive to live in CA than it is to live in Utah. IOW, it’s all relative. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-charging-for-access-comments/92489/58 "2001-11-10T17:58:06Z")
One more thing, it is extremely difficult to find a job right now. It took 2 months before we found anything after we moved to SoCal. I don’t know how reflective this is on the rest of the States though. ---
**Author:** ![rsa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/839c29/32.png) [@rsa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rsa)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-charging-for-access-comments/92489/59 "2001-11-10T18:07:18Z")
I responded that I would be willing to pay at most $20 - $25 per year. But I think any fee would discourage new people from joining. I also wonder if by charging for the site, the moderators would need to be paid to avoid labor law issues. If that is case, the net may be little improvement in financial costs. I just hope that the Chicago Reader takes into account the superb free service that the mods contribute. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2001, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-charging-for-access-comments/92489/60 "2001-11-10T18:08:41Z")
Thanks **pepper** – I was actually thinking of how much _extra_ work – over and above living/usual expenses – would have to be incurred to meet the proposed cost. In that sense, only the wage itself matters to the equation. So, at a mean of $6.00, we’re looking at between ½ to one full days work per annum out of a students schedule (depending on the final level of the proposed cost) ? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-charging-for-access-comments/92489.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-charging-for-access-comments/92489.md?page=4)