# SDMB Diplomacy **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 5, 2009, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-diplomacy/501964 "2009-07-05T09:56:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-diplomacy/501964/421 "2009-08-24T14:03:21Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > Austria- you’ll note that I blindly made an attempt of support for you, even though it turned out to be the wrong unit. I hope for more than just peace with you. As you can see, the Western Alliance is now clamoring for my help… again. I have no problem working with you, but it really isn’t up to me. Your territories are earmarked for Turkey in our alliance, and he’s the one that can give them up in negotiations. As for me, I don’t require anything of you except for you to hold on as long as possible. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-diplomacy/501964/422 "2009-08-24T14:19:08Z")
> [@grimpixie](#): > > Here now - let me know what you need. Will talk more after the retreats-I have few ideas in mind. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-diplomacy/501964/423 "2009-08-24T14:23:01Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > I would rather see Paris in flames and the bodies of my armies piled under the Arc du Triumph than be said to be that stupid. I will die, and I will probably die soon, but I hope to give the Austro-Turks the help they need to crack your defenses. Great, so you’d rather act petulant and spoiled, possibly being eliminated in the process, than to ensure the game ends in a draw (with you as one of the survivors). This is not a game (and that’s all it is) where letting your emotions run wild does you (or anybody) any good. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-diplomacy/501964/424 "2009-08-24T14:29:36Z")
> [@treis](#): > > I’m still not interested in attacking you, and hope our peaceful border can continue. No use in us doing all the fighting while our allies grow fat off our efforts. I haven’t made any hostile moves towards you, and I don’t intend to. So the attack on Tyrolia never happened, huh? > [@treis](#): > > I could say the same thing to Germany. At least Turkey isn’t making armies :dubious: You are a fool, or willfully and selectively ignorant. Germany has a 2 province front with you right now (2 on his side, 4 on yours)-that does not compare at all with all the various units Turkey has arrayed at your rear. When I stalemate Turkey in Iberia (which I can probably do even without France’s help), he’ll have no other place to go other than deep into your back. Mark my words at the right time he’ll drive the dagger in deep. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-diplomacy/501964/425 "2009-08-24T14:56:50Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > So the attack on Tyrolia never happened, huh? There was no attack. It was fulfillment of prearranged and agreed upon moves: > [@treis](#): > > Omniscient- Let me know if you want that army in Boh to do anything. Ideally I would like to see the army of yours in Tyr leave soon. I can deny it to France after this turn if you wish, or it can be returned to unoccupied territory. > [@Omniscient](#): > > I will have no issue leaving Tyr so long as I can count on you to stalemate France in Piedmont. > [@treis](#): > > Sounds good. It would be most convenient for me to occupy Tyr in the Fall. Probably best if you stay put until then. > [@John\_DiFool](#): > > You are a fool, or willfully and selectively ignorant. Germany has a 2 province front with you right now (2 on his side, 4 on yours)-that does not compare at all with all the various units Turkey has arrayed at your rear. When I stalemate Turkey in Iberia (which I can probably do even without France’s help), he’ll have no other place to go other than deep into your back. Mark my words at the right time he’ll drive the dagger in deep. You misunderstand. I said that I could say the same thing to Germany. I.E. you are going to be stalemated in Iberia and in Russia so you will have no other place to go but deep into Germany’s back. And like I said, Turkey isn’t making anti-Austria builds or moves. Which is more than can be said for you. ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-diplomacy/501964/426 "2009-08-24T17:14:41Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Great, so you’d rather act petulant and spoiled, possibly being eliminated in the process, than to ensure the game ends in a draw (with you as one of the survivors). This is not a game (and that’s all it is) where letting your emotions run wild does you (or anybody) any good. Petulant? Spoiled? My good man, I think you are letting emotions run away with you. I have been burned not once, but twice, by you (and to a lesser extent Germany). Why do you think I would trust you in any way (in regards to the game, of course). And yes, I am that player. That annoying person who would rather throw the game in an attempt to damage someone else, than hang on and coast in on the coattails as supporting cast. But really, even if I were in a position of strength, given the game history I wouldn’t trust you anyways. I’m hitching my cart to Austro-Turkey, and that is that. That being said… Turkey- It is being said that my territories are yours, and I can understand taht, but would it not behoove you both to have a friendly passage (in part) than one where you must contest each spot? Get back to me ASAP, I’m curious to see how this can be worked out. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-diplomacy/501964/427 "2009-08-24T18:26:29Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > Petulant? Spoiled? My good man, I think you are letting emotions run away with you. > > I have been burned not once, but twice, by you (and to a lesser extent Germany). Why do you think I would trust you in any way (in regards to the game, of course). > > And yes, I am that player. That annoying person who would rather throw the game in an attempt to damage someone else, than hang on and coast in on the coattails as supporting cast. > > But really, even if I were in a position of strength, given the game history I wouldn’t trust you anyways. > > I’m hitching my cart to Austro-Turkey, and that is that. > > That being said… > > Turkey- It is being said that my territories are yours, and I can understand taht, but would it not behoove you both to have a friendly passage (in part) than one where you must contest each spot? Get back to me ASAP, I’m curious to see how this can be worked out. My ears are always open. And of course while you breathe you hope, and you never know but what some future turn of events might see either Austria or myself seek your aid against the other, with the cooperation of the shattered remnants of the Western alliance. Of course the Archduke and I are firmly allied to each other at present, and yet I doubt that either of us has the long-term goal of being the other’s useful idiot. 😃 Perhaps if the fleet in the Western Mediterranean were to be given a hand into Spain this Fall? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-diplomacy/501964/428 "2009-08-24T18:42:35Z")
Malacandra- What are you thinking with Russia? Do you want to move into Sev, or will you cover Ank? ---
**Author:** ![CatInASuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3be4f8/32.png) [@CatInASuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CatInASuit)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-diplomacy/501964/429 "2009-08-24T19:20:54Z")
Retreats done and it’s time for Autumn **France** : Army Burgandy -\> Paris **Germany** : Army Tyrolia -\> Munich Here is the [latest map](http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc316/ruaria/Diplomacy/1905_Spring_retreat.jpg) **Deadline for Autumn 1905 is Thursday 27th August at 20:00 GMT** ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-diplomacy/501964/430 "2009-08-25T00:47:18Z")
> [@treis](#): > > And like I said, Turkey isn’t making anti-Austria builds or moves. Which is more than can be said for you. The army build in London you mean? The one I asked my ally about first (who didn’t respond back)? The one I immediately moved west and out of his danger zone? Sorry for misconstruing the other stuff-doesn’t change my main thesis. You guys have the initiative and the greater opportunity for gains in the near term. You are always going to be vulnerable to Turkey, much more than he to you, unless something very weird happens. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-diplomacy/501964/431 "2009-08-25T00:55:10Z")
> [@Tristan](#): > > Petulant? Spoiled? My good man, I think you are letting emotions run away with you. > > I have been burned not once, but twice, by you (and to a lesser extent Germany). Why do you think I would trust you in any way (in regards to the game, of course). You still don’t get it. Your offensive potential, once you failed to build a second fleet after you got Portugal, was going to be extremely limited. If I hadn’t hustled down there as I have, Turkey would be about to break into the Atlantic once he got his 2nd fleet into the Western Med/North Africa, and there wouldn’t have been a damned thing you could have done about it, and I would have arrived too late to do anything about it. News flash; this world doesn’t revolve around Tristan and his egotistical rantings-my mindset was not “how do I screw Tristan this time!”, but "where should my fleet-heavy forces be for (a) maximum gains for me, and (b), if (a) fails, how should I preserve the balance of power. And, for the MILLIONTH time, once Russia screwed me, our offensive against Germany was fucking OVER-get it now? Ah probably the fuck not. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-diplomacy/501964/432 "2009-08-25T14:01:14Z")
> [@grimpixie](#): > > Here now - let me know what you need. I would recommend that you make a play for Moscow with A Sev-I’ll either support it in, or support Warsaw (guessing game)-it’s going to get dislodged anyway. If War also gets kicked out, you could disband both and rebuild one in Moscow (this assumes you get a Turkish center-actually in retrospect I admire your sneakiness). I just need to ensure I can get back into St. Pete without risk of being bounced out and then dislodged from Liv. ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-diplomacy/501964/433 "2009-08-25T17:26:25Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > I would recommend that you make a play for Moscow with A Sev-I’ll either support it in, or support Warsaw (guessing game)-it’s going to get dislodged anyway. If War also gets kicked out, you could disband both and rebuild one in Moscow (this assumes you get a Turkish center-actually in retrospect I admire your sneakiness). I just need to ensure I can get back into St. Pete without risk of being bounced out and then dislodged from Liv. … ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-diplomacy/501964/434 "2009-08-26T00:28:51Z")
The issue is that a bounce in Moscow prevents you from retreating there, according to the rules. This way I can ensure that you get in-or, if I guess right, I can keep Warsaw alive for one more turn. If you like I can play it for the sure thing and help you in and let Warsaw fall. I simply don’t have any more units over there to help you any more than this. ---
**Author:** ![grimpixie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@grimpixie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grimpixie)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-diplomacy/501964/435 "2009-08-26T07:48:41Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > The issue is that a bounce in Moscow prevents you from retreating there, according to the rules. This way I can ensure that you get in-or, if I guess right, I can keep Warsaw alive for one more turn. If you like I can play it for the sure thing and help you in and let Warsaw fall. I simply don’t have any more units over there to help you any more than this. My fear is that I will then end up losing both War and Sev… which is just delaying the inevitable really I suppose… Your call 😉 ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-diplomacy/501964/436 "2009-08-26T14:24:40Z")
Mmm true-he has a choice to make. I just dislike the possibility of a presence of an Austrian army in Moscow-I’d much rather have you there. If I move there and you don’t then I’ll take a center from you without intending to. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-diplomacy/501964/437 "2009-08-26T17:22:40Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Mmm true-he has a choice to make. I just dislike the possibility of a presence of an Austrian army in Moscow-I’d much rather have you there. If I move there and you don’t then I’ll take a center from you without intending to. There is going to be an Austrian army there sooner or later (sooner if you ask me). Perhaps it would be best to stop trying to thwart my efforts and instead attempt to secure a stable border through diplomacy. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-diplomacy/501964/438 "2009-08-27T00:36:19Z")
Okay-what do you have in mind? All I want is to secure Scandinavia (on behalf of myself and my ally-assuming he hustles over there with at least one fleet)-I consider St. Pete part of that of course. I can leave Livonia and we can make that a no-man’s land if you like. **Omni** , haven’t heard a peep from you this turn-I assume you feel (as I pretty much do) that we’ll be doing some house cleaning and rearranging this turn to set things up for next year. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-diplomacy/501964/439 "2009-08-27T00:39:14Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Okay-what do you have in mind? All I want is to secure Scandinavia (on behalf of myself and my ally-assuming he hustles over there with at least one fleet)-I consider St. Pete part of that of course. I can leave Livonia and we can make that a no-man’s land if you like. I don’t really care what you do so long as it isn’t supporting Russia. I have no intention of driving on to StP. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-diplomacy/501964/440 "2009-08-27T00:50:44Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > Okay-what do you have in mind? All I want is to secure Scandinavia (on behalf of myself and my ally-assuming he hustles over there with at least one fleet)-I consider St. Pete part of that of course. I can leave Livonia and we can make that a no-man’s land if you like. > > **Omni** , haven’t heard a peep from you this turn-I assume you feel (as I pretty much do) that we’ll be doing some house cleaning and rearranging this turn to set things up for next year. Yeah, pretty much. I’d like to wait and see if Austria moves Tyr into Pie against France or if he decides to attack me before we start expediting his expanse into Russia. Frankly, if he keeps arraying units towards me I won’t be able to get a Fleet anywhere to secure Scandinavia. A fast growing Austria isn’t particularly helpful if that contributes to a Turkey that blockades you in the Med and props up France keeping us without builds. I really wish Russia would have just turtled up and waited out the storm and asked for support. Nonetheless, I’m not seeing how you and Austria agreeing that he gets 3 of Russia’s home SCs and you get 1 makes anything close to equitable sense. Austria, do you foresee war with me or do you want to start talking about a central alliance? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-diplomacy/501964.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-diplomacy/501964.md?page=23)