# SDMB FF Dynasty League: Year Four **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [July 15, 2012, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-ff-dynasty-league-year-four/628336 "2012-07-15T20:03:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-ff-dynasty-league-year-four/628336/421 "2012-10-10T15:42:41Z")
> [@VarlosZ](#): > > If return TDs are counted for DEFs, then when Devin Hester returns a punt for a TD, both he \*and \*the Chicago defense get 6 points for it, thus that lone TD adds 12 points to our league’s scoring total instead of 6. > > Yeah, yeah, we sort of double count passing TDs as well, but that’s just how it is on the box score – there are two TDs to go around, one passing and one receiving – and besides, two players really did score that TD for all intents and purposes. On a return TD (not counting some kind of Stanford Band wackiness), it’s just Devin Hester and a bunch of blockers, and blockers don’t get their own fantasy points. I’m having trouble wrapping my head around how this could be seen as relevant. It makes no sense to me at all; FF isn’t a double-entry accounting game. But even if it is, then passing touchdowns are counted four times: 1) passing touchdown, 2) receiving touchdown, 3) passing yards, 4) receiving yards. > [@](#): > > True, they get the extra point hung on them – which is stupid, and we can’t do anything about it – but that affects a very small number of games in a given year. Only a few **shutouts** are affected, true, but every game with a defensive score is affected. I’ll note that in the Jets/Texans game that started this, the Texans defense was penalized a point on PA for the extra point after the kickoff return. Also, any return or trunover where the offense starts with the ball in the redzone, and the defense holds them to 3 & out and force a field goal, is a defensive win. Those three points are purely special teams; you don’t really hang that on the defense, do you? In any case, you seem to agree that this is a purely special teams effect that gets credited to the defense, though I acknowledge you would change it if you could. > [@](#): > > True, I’d forgotten about that, but blocked kicks sure do \*feel \*like defense to me, subjectively. No matter how much handwaving away you do about subjective feelings, you can’t avoid conceding that this is a purely special teams play. It’s not the defense lining up out there, it’s not the defensive coordinator sending in the play. It’s special teams, through and through. > [@](#): > > Kick Returns are just a whole other universe: mostly offensive personnel, performing a fundamentally offense-oriented function (matriculating the ball down the field), to the direct benefit of the offense. What the heck does that have to do with the Defense? They are special teams. The actual roster spot in the fantasy team is called “defense/special teams.” Ergo, special teams should count. What about a punt return for a TD, as opposed to a kickoff return? Isn’t that more defense-y? ---
**Author:** ![Stringer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Stringer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringer)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-ff-dynasty-league-year-four/628336/422 "2012-10-10T15:45:18Z")
We should just vote on it next year, someone remember to bring it up. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-ff-dynasty-league-year-four/628336/423 "2012-10-10T16:34:41Z")
Incidentally, Defenses should get credit for a shutout when 1 point is allowed too. That whole PAT on a defensive TD thing is asinine. ETA: 2 points too, no way a Safety (or 2 DEF TDs) is the defenses fault. ---
**Author:** ![Stringer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Stringer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringer)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-ff-dynasty-league-year-four/628336/424 "2012-10-10T18:03:59Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Incidentally, Defenses should get credit for a shutout when 1 point is allowed too. That whole PAT on a defensive TD thing is asinine. > > ETA: 2 points too, no way a Safety (or 2 DEF TDs) is the defenses fault. That’s an interesting way to get around the Yahoo limitation. Is there a good place to write down changes to vote on for next year so we don’t forget? This thread gets way too long from year to year to keep track. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2012, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-ff-dynasty-league-year-four/628336/425 "2012-10-10T18:39:57Z")
Maybe we could create an omnibus “SDMB FF league scoring changes” thread that all the leagues could use for issues they want to remember to vote on in the offseason. EDIT: > [@Omniscient](#): > > ETA: 2 points too, no way a Safety (or 2 DEF TDs) is the defenses fault. Yahoo is smart enough not to count return TDs against the defense, so I’m assuming they don’t count safeties against the defense either. If we can set the scoring range of 0-2 as a single “shutout” bucket, that would be ideal. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2012, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-ff-dynasty-league-year-four/628336/426 "2012-10-11T19:44:18Z")
Yeah I posted prematurely the score declaration from my tablet when I couldn’t really look to see who still had players active. Forgot about Arian Foster. Grats Stringer. Sometimes we get so wrapped up in outdoing each other, we forget that we share something in common - raping the rest of the league. On the plus side, the whole Jackie Battle nonsense was just some silly motivatonal tool and Ryan Mathews is looking pretty good. My RB squad in general is actually pretty ridiculous. Richardson, Mathews, McCoy. I’m actually amazed at how well Richardson has done in fantasy considering how badly he’s misused in actual football and how he’s not getting help from anyone. Jordy Nelson is somewhat dissapointing so far as I expected but that’s the rub in a high powered but very deep offense - you get the same deal with New Orleans receivers. Demaryius Thomas has been pretty awesome though despite fumbling instead of scoring TDs a few times a game. (Also: James Fucking Jones) Really, though, my team has been fairly tame so far. I’m hoping they all pull it together towards the end of the season. Edit: Regarding defensive scoring, unfortunately you can’t set custom ranges, you can only assign points to the ranges that yahoo assigns. Yahoo won’t count a defensive TD or safety against your defense, but they will count the PATs, so a pick 6 followed by a PAT does prevent a shutout. I agree that either they should be smart enough not to count PATs after defensive touchdowns, or at least as a fudge make 0-2 its own category, but there’s nothing we can do as commish unfortunately. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-ff-dynasty-league-year-four/628336/427 "2012-10-14T06:21:16Z")
Next week is the big matchup, Stringer and I. Shitty week for me though - I lose Thomas, McCoy, and Mathews. It’d be worse if GB was on bye instead, but just barely - I’m going to have to downgrade at RB from like Richardson/McCoy/Mathews to… Richardson/Starks/Oprah. I wish I could bump that matchup to week 8, where I’m up to full strength and I’m going to rip a hole in time and space. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-ff-dynasty-league-year-four/628336/428 "2012-10-14T21:01:53Z")
Oh man would it be awesome if Stringer’s first loss of the season came from Shonn Greene. Unlikely, he’ll probably still win, but that’d be funny. ---
**Author:** ![Stringer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Stringer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringer)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-ff-dynasty-league-year-four/628336/429 "2012-10-14T23:31:17Z")
I got Greened! ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-ff-dynasty-league-year-four/628336/430 "2012-10-14T23:36:55Z")
I just wanted to share this. > [@SDMB FF Dynasty League: Year Three](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-ff-dynasty-league-year-three/588388/151): > > \*\*Ides of Martz > > 1. (3) Julio Jones (Atl - WR) > 2. (15) DeMarco Murray (Dal - RB) > 3. (27) Jake Locker (Ten - QB) > 4. (39) Anthony Armstrong (Was - WR) > 5. (51) Kyle Rudolph (Min - TE) > 6. (63) Donald Brown (Ind - RB) > 7. (75) Devery Henderson (NO - WR) > 8. (87) Donald Jones (Buf - WR) > 9. (99) David Buehler (Dal - K)\*\* > > The Good: Almost every pick is defensible or better. I was ready to yell at \*\*Omni \*\*for the Anthony Armstrong selection, but he did have 871 receiving yards last year as a rookie – how’d that happen? – and he also benefits from the generally crappy Washington WR corps. Good job not getting cute with the 3rd overall pick: anyone in the top 3 this year who failed to come away with Ingram, Green, or Jones failed the draft. > > The Bad: **I’m not sure I see the point of the Kyle Rudolph pick; and 2nd or 3rd TE on a team that already has a pass-catching starter?** Why would you draft a second Kicker? Donald Jones plays for the Bills (and, unlike Armstrong, he did not have an impressive rookie campaign). > > Overall: B+. Not wild about the end of his draft, but the pickings were pretty slim there, so doesn’t really matter. Otherwise, he did everything else right (or not wrong, at least). Dude is a stud. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2012, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-ff-dynasty-league-year-four/628336/431 "2012-10-14T23:37:03Z")
You’re still in it but I think Retro is the favorite now. 38 point lead and the Packers D vs Arian Foster and Shayne Graham. Houston isn’t a team that gives up much to defenses though, their score very well could be negative. I’m 54 behind Ellis Dee and he still has Gates, but I’ve got my big guns - Rodgers, Nelson/Jones, Thomas, Mathews. Hamlet needs 26 out of Rivers and Decker to beat Varlos. Furt has a 9 point lead and Andre Johnson against Isotope’s Peyton Manning. ---
**Author:** ![EllisDee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellisdee/32/4531_2.png) [@EllisDee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EllisDee)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-ff-dynasty-league-year-four/628336/432 "2012-10-15T00:14:29Z")
Oh man, the Jets were clearly messing with me for my whining about return TDs not counting for the defense: Interception return for a TD! Oh wait, roughing the passer, int counts but no TD. Interception return for a TD! Oh wait, PI on the guy who got the pick six, it’s really a 1st down. Grrrr. Speaking of the issue of special teams returns for touchdowns being “double counted” if they were credited to the defense, they’re actually being half-counted now without it. Last week the Jets returned a kickoff for a TD and didn’t get credit on defense for it. However, their opponent, the Texans, [got that TD hung on them in the PA column](http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com/f1/46944/10?week=5). The game ended 23 17, and the Texans show 17 in PA. I think not counting return TDs on special teams for the defense is more unbalanced than counting them, since it’s far more likely that any given defense will actually be starting in our league than any given kick returner. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-ff-dynasty-league-year-four/628336/433 "2012-10-15T01:32:50Z")
Mmmm. I hope this means my Green Bay is back. 55 points in less than a half. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-ff-dynasty-league-year-four/628336/434 "2012-10-15T02:28:44Z")
I just came. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-ff-dynasty-league-year-four/628336/435 "2012-10-15T02:56:06Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > I just came. Your sister over for a visit? (Sorry, couldn’t resist). ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-ff-dynasty-league-year-four/628336/436 "2012-10-15T02:57:28Z")
Do I look like a Steelers fan to you? Look at my teeth. All there. It was your recliner anyway. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-ff-dynasty-league-year-four/628336/437 "2012-10-15T03:04:07Z")
Okay, this is starting to get silly. I’m starting Nelson and James (fucking) Jones. I’m at 142 with the Packers left to finish, plus Demarius Thomas and Ryan Mathews. If those two have a good day tomorrow, I may set the scoring record this week. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-ff-dynasty-league-year-four/628336/438 "2012-10-15T03:07:50Z")
> [@senorbeef](#): > > it was your recliner anyway. there is a line!!! Nobody talks crap about my recliner!!! ---
**Author:** ![Stringer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Stringer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringer)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-ff-dynasty-league-year-four/628336/439 "2012-10-15T03:08:01Z")
The scoring record is like 202 so, no. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2012, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-ff-dynasty-league-year-four/628336/440 "2012-10-15T03:10:30Z")
Ah, I should’ve specified this season. I didn’t remember what the previous years had though. For this season it’s 175.93. 34 points from the Green Bay crew through the rest of the game, plus Thomas and Mathews. I’d say 40% chance I hit it. Thomas and Mathews are pretty variable but both high upside guys. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-ff-dynasty-league-year-four/628336.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-ff-dynasty-league-year-four/628336.md?page=23)