# SDMB Film Club: Casablanca (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 18, 2009, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-film-club-casablanca-spoilers/503449 "2009-07-18T16:19:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![psychobunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@psychobunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychobunny)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-film-club-casablanca-spoilers/503449/41 "2009-07-20T18:17:47Z")
I hate to rain on everybody’s parade because I love almost everything about this movie but some of the dialogue makes me cringe. Ilsa could be such a great character. To attract Rick she should have at least a modicum of backbone so it drives me batty when she says lines like “Was that cannon fire? Or was it my heart pounding?” and even worse “I don’t know what to do anymore; you’ll have to do the thinking for both of us.” This is somebody who minutes before was trying to use Rick to save her husband. I wish they had let her be a little stronger. She can still be emotionally torn but not a poor helpless female. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-film-club-casablanca-spoilers/503449/42 "2009-07-20T19:31:15Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > So some officials at the departing gate may have allowed the letters of transit through but at the same time Germans were consolidating control. They could not be questioned. They were signed by General DeGaulle himself! 😉 As for the airport scene, even though Renault was looking out for himself, he knew he was safe and prosperous with Strasser in charge - call that “loyalty” to him if you like, it had the same effect. With Strasser dead, Renault knew the next German commandant would blame him, and at least he had a chance if he went with Rick. Very convenient that there was a bottle of Vichy water right there, wasn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-film-club-casablanca-spoilers/503449/43 "2009-07-20T19:33:07Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > They could not be questioned. They were signed by General DeGaulle himself! 😉 Weygand. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-film-club-casablanca-spoilers/503449/44 "2009-07-20T19:37:30Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Very convenient that there was a bottle of Vichy water right there, wasn’t it? It’s not like he threw a German Shepherd in the trash.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-film-club-casablanca-spoilers/503449/45 "2009-07-20T20:37:52Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Weygand. [Depends on the listener.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casablanca_film#Errors_and_inaccuracies) Weygand at least makes some sense, though. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-film-club-casablanca-spoilers/503449/46 "2009-07-20T21:08:18Z")
> [@Le\_Ministre\_de\_l\_au-dela](#): > > For those who divide the world of cinema into guy films/girl films, Casablanca is firmly in the overlap of those two Venn diagrams. As much as I love the film, I can’t really agree with this because of the reasons psychobunny mentions. I know plenty of women who are bothered by Ilsa’s abdication of thought and decision-making at such a critical moment. Although I believe Bergman sells the emotions effectively enough, it really is a man’s ego-driven fantasy to have the woman let him do all the deciding. That makes the sacrifice all the more nobler, don’t you know! In a film full of perfect dialogue, it’s a line (and a characterization) that is a bit cringe-worthy. And I have to defend Paul Henreid. As great as everyone is in the film, I can probably think of at least one performance in their body of work that is still better…with the exception of Henreid. There’s nothing wimpy about him–in fact, his eyes, his gaze bring out an inner strengh that show depth and reserves of courage behind a modest exterior. When he leads the band, there is absolutely no wonder why Ilsa fell in love with him. He was never a particularly strong actor, but he’s exactly the Victor that this film needs, and holds up his end of the film quite admirably. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-film-club-casablanca-spoilers/503449/47 "2009-07-20T22:41:53Z")
> [@ArchiveGuy](#): > > And I have to defend Paul Henreid. As great as everyone is in the film, I can probably think of at least one performance in their body of work that is still better…with the exception of Henreid. There’s nothing wimpy about him–in fact, his eyes, his gaze bring out an inner strengh that show depth and reserves of courage behind a modest exterior. When he leads the band, there is absolutely no wonder why Ilsa fell in love with him. He was never a particularly strong actor, but he’s exactly the Victor that this film needs, and holds up his end of the film quite admirably. I concur. It’s a tough role, he has to be strong enough to have won Ilsa and led the resistance, but not overshadow Rick, not easy. The scene where he leads the band, when he asks Ilsa should I quit or should I carry on as best I can, and when he tells Rick he sounds like a man trying to convince himself of something he doesn’t really believe work pretty well, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-film-club-casablanca-spoilers/503449/48 "2009-07-20T22:50:52Z")
> [@Just\_Some\_Guy](#): > > I can’t dispute that since Casablanca seems to rise to greatness on a collision of brilliant scriptwriting and ideal acting. > > Michael Curtiz as the director seemed almost superfluous; he was competent but not brilliant. A lot of his staging seemed firmly stuck in the 1930’s with how confined the camera is. Even when he gets outside onto an airfield at the end the fog closes everything in. I think the best thing you can say about him is that he got terrific performances out the cast and then got out of the way. > > And to throw out a discussion point: what’s the best line in the movie? Oh, don’t dump on the guy too much - he was on quite a roll that year, directing both _Casablanca_ and _Yankee Doodle Dandy_ back-to-back. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2009, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-film-club-casablanca-spoilers/503449/49 "2009-07-20T23:01:11Z")
My favorite scene… EXT. BLACK MARKET - DAY Arab: You will not find treasure like this in all Morocco, Madamoiselle. Seven-hundred francs. Rick: You’re being cheated. Ilsa: It doesn’t matter, thank you. Arab: Ahh, the lady is a friend of Rick’s? For friends of Rick’s, we have a small discount. Did I say seven-hundred francs? You can have it for two-hundred! _Reaching under the counter he takes out a sign that says “200 francs” and replaces the other sign with it_ Rick: I’m sorry I was in no condition to receive you when you called on me last night. Ilsa: It doesn’t matter. Arab: Ah, for _special_ friends of Rick’s we have a special discount - one-hundred francs!" _Reaching under the counter he takes out a sign that says “100 francs” and replaces the previous sign._ ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-film-club-casablanca-spoilers/503449/50 "2009-07-21T01:38:43Z")
“Vultures! Vultures everywhere!” 😃 ETA: In case you don’t know, Netflix has this movie on its list of instant view movies. You can stream it to watch! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-film-club-casablanca-spoilers/503449/51 "2009-07-21T04:18:42Z")
> [@](#): > > I concur. It’s a tough role, he has to be strong enough to have won Ilsa and led the resistance, but not overshadow Rick, not easy. The scene where he leads the band, when he asks Ilsa should I quit or should I carry on as best I can, and when he tells Rick he sounds like a man trying to convince himself of something he doesn’t really believe work pretty well, IMHO. The Marseillaise scene was his best: it actually showed him being the kind of inspirational leader that we would otherwise have only heard about at second hand. I also like his scene where he tried to convince Ilsa he would abandon her in order to convince her to leave without him if she could. It was well acted: Henreid was able to look like he was trying to sound sincere while failing at it - it’s tough for an actor to layer on nuances like that. > [@](#): > > I hate to rain on everybody’s parade because I love almost everything about this movie but some of the dialogue makes me cringe. Ilsa could be such a great character. To attract Rick she should have at least a modicum of backbone so it drives me batty when she says lines like “Was that cannon fire? Or was it my heart pounding?” and even worse “I don’t know what to do anymore; you’ll have to do the thinking for both of us.” This is somebody who minutes before was trying to use Rick to save her husband. I wish they had let her be a little stronger. She can still be emotionally torn but not a poor helpless female. I agree with the cannon-fire line - that just didn’t work at all. And I know it’s a classic but I think that “Here’s looking at you, kid” is dumb the first time it’s used and it gets worse every time it’s repeated. But “you’ll have to do the thinking for both of us” does work. Up to that point, Rick has been thinking just about himself. When Ilsa says this he realizes he also has to think about what’s best for her. And once he does that he starts thinking about what’s best for everybody. It’s actually the key line of the movie. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-film-club-casablanca-spoilers/503449/52 "2009-07-26T04:45:04Z")
It’s occurred to me that some people may not be able to join in because they were unable to obtain a copy of _Casablanca_ or did not have the time to watch the movie. So for them, here’s an [online version](http://www.angryalien.com/0506/casabunca.asp) of the movie. In thirty seconds. Re-enacted by bunnies. ---
**Author:** ![DMark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@DMark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMark)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-film-club-casablanca-spoilers/503449/53 "2009-07-26T05:03:04Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > So for them, here’s an [online version](http://www.angryalien.com/0506/casabunca.asp) of the movie. In thirty seconds. Re-enacted by bunnies. That version lacked a bit in nuance. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-film-club-casablanca-spoilers/503449/54 "2009-07-26T06:41:22Z")
> [@](#): > > And I know it’s a classic but I think that “Here’s looking at you, kid” is dumb the first time it’s used and it gets worse every time it’s repeated. I agree and the same goes for the silly “We’ll always have Paris”. The strength of the script isn’t so much in the now-legendary lines which have been flogged to death over the decades but in the actual scenes where characters react to each other. Though I admit to having a soft spot for “Round up the usual suspects”. The usual suspects has also been worn into cliche but just think about how the two words relate to each other and you realize how deliciously cynical the phrase is: like something Dick Cheney would come up with if he had a sense of humor. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-film-club-casablanca-spoilers/503449/55 "2009-07-26T19:19:33Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > Though I admit to having a soft spot for “Round up the usual suspects”. The usual suspects has also been worn into cliche but just think about how the two words relate to each other and you realize how deliciously cynical the phrase is: like something Dick Cheney would come up with if he had a sense of humor. Or when Maj. Strasser first arrives and Captain Renault tells him that the murder of the couriers is so important, ‘I told my men to round up twice the usual number of suspects.’ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-film-club-casablanca-spoilers/503449/56 "2009-07-26T19:41:14Z")
> [@psychobunny](#): > > I hate to rain on everybody’s parade because I love almost everything about this movie but some of the dialogue makes me cringe. Ilsa could be such a great character. To attract Rick she should have at least a modicum of backbone so it drives me batty when she says lines like “Was that cannon fire? Or was it my heart pounding?” and even worse “I don’t know what to do anymore; you’ll have to do the thinking for both of us.” This is somebody who minutes before was trying to use Rick to save her husband. I wish they had let her be a little stronger. She can still be emotionally torn but not a poor helpless female. Ilsa is playing Rick from the get go in much the same way Itzhak Perlman plays the violin. She knew Rick was in Casablanca and deliberately came to his cafe because she knew he was resourceful enough to get them out of the country. Ilsa is a much better actress than Ingrid Bergman was, not that Bergman didn’t do well. Oh, after Ilsa tells Ricks she is married to Laslo Rick knew he was being played and went along with it. Because he was still in love with her. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-film-club-casablanca-spoilers/503449.md?page=2)