# SDMB FOOTIE FOCUS: November **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [November 3, 2003, 11:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-footie-focus-november/211133 "2003-11-03T11:13:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-footie-focus-november/211133/181 "2003-11-27T16:23:40Z")
No - my ex-brother-in-law used to do that a lot when we were at Highbury. In his own words: “It’s not like i have to have the volume very loud is it?” ---
**Author:** ![fortytwo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f9ae1b/32.png) [@fortytwo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fortytwo)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2003, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-footie-focus-november/211133/182 "2003-11-27T19:42:47Z")
Some fairly new news! Sven offered extension. Will he take it, or is he waiting to cross that bridge. [http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/england/3244502.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/england/3244502.stm) ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-footie-focus-november/211133/183 "2003-11-28T11:22:16Z")
More news: David Beckham thinks the queen is a football fan as Tony Blair once told him that he watched a game with her. I’ll give you a clue David; THere is only one person in the world who can go to all the cup finals for free, and she doesn’t. Unless you think she’s an armchair fan (I’d pay good money to see Her Britannic Majesty in a jester’s hat). Also - surely the Queen must have the highest boredom threshold of any human being on the planet. Think of the amount of folk-dancing she’s sat through. And Blair once claimed to have seen Jackie Milburn play. Hmmmmm. And… according to Jerzy Dudek the Pope is a Liverpool fan. Makes Chas and Dave look a bit two bob. Blackburn tomorrow - I feel a draw in my waters. In a manner of speaking. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-footie-focus-november/211133/184 "2003-11-28T12:12:12Z")
I supose my view on Henry would be that if it takes selling him to enable Ashburton Grove, then so be it. For the Gooners, Ashburton Grove is a chance in a lifetime that will set the club up (or bury it) for 50 years or more. You just have to grab those opportunites (and make them work) even if it means selling your main asset. YMMV. As for Spurs vs. His Sourness tomorrow, I’d have been a lot happier had Kanoute played in the reserve game against West ham on Wednesday gone (as was hoped by all). That he didn’t obviously means he’s not playing tomorrow and which, I assume, means we’ve another afternooon of Postiga being out sprinted, out positioned and out shot by my Gran. Maybe he does “just need a goal” but let’s find the f\*uck out . . . Tricky little forward line have Blackburn when it all goes right. Yorke is back but Cole is absent. And we really do need to watch Ferguson and Emerton’s runs \. Best laugh of the morning is that Guf Poyet is out due to a sprained wrist – that tells me all I need to know. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-footie-focus-november/211133/185 "2003-11-28T12:52:48Z")
The thing about ashburton grove is that at present it is an absolute nightmare for the muppets. It is costing them a small fortune to maintain the site in its current non-revenue producing state, and there is no building work going on on it. So it’s pure outflow, not investment. THis has the effect of raising the amount of money required for completion to levels that banks are not going to lend at. The few banks who would look at this sort of debt would require CCC level returns - ie it would effectively be a junk bond. To compound matters,they can’t even cut their losses and sell the site as the planning restrictions are so tight that it has very little value in it’s current state (actually they could sell it to us, and we could build a stadium on it). Ths is why they will listen to offers for anyone on their playing staff. They simply have to. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-footie-focus-november/211133/186 "2003-11-28T13:07:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by owlstretchingtime \* > It is costing them a small fortune to maintain the site in its current non-revenue producing state, and there is no building work going on on it. So it’s pure outflow, not investment. I’m not doubting you, I just don’t know why maintaining a vacant plot would be so expensive ? ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-footie-focus-november/211133/187 "2003-11-28T13:51:57Z")
It’s not _so_ expensive but it is far from cheap. Apart from the security, public liability insurance etc which does run to a few quid, there is also the money that they have already put into the site, work that will have to be done again. They also have contractors on retainers and so on. It’s all money with no return. Also interest rates are only going one way, and that will greatly increase their costs. The gooners are living beyond their means in a variety of ways. They cannot afford to pay the wages that they are paying. The only ways the sums add up are if they can get a 60,000 seat stadium to bring in the revenue (and a team to fill it) or they could pull their belt in and live within their means. That would require player sales and more modest transfer ambitions. It’s not a desperate state; but it will eventually become one unless something changes. ---
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-footie-focus-november/211133/188 "2003-11-28T15:05:21Z")
If raising capital for the ground was all-important then players such as Pires and Henry would (to my mind) have been sold _before_ new big contracts were negotiated/offered. Why waste money on big weekly wages - even in the short term - if you are planning on selling the players anyway? Admittedly the sale of someone like Henry in the summer _may_ (and i’m still not totally convinced of this) net more cash now than his sale last summer would have done. But that has to be ofset against a year or so of big money wages, which certainly brings the profit margin down. That profit margin would be further eroded by the need to go out and buy a replacement striker who could actually hit the back of the net once in a while. Even if Wenger agreed to the sale then i’d be very surprised if he didn’t insist on having a chunk of the profits for that purpose. Combine that with the (as you are so keen to point out 😉 ) fickle nature of a chunk of Arsenal’s fan base and the sale of a player who is arguably Arsenal’s best and most favoured looks even more like a potential disaster. So yeah, we’re stuck between a rock and a hard place. What do we do (and this is a generalisation)? 1. Sell Henry to fund a ground that, arguably, without him we might have difficulty filling or 1. Keep Henry and risk financial ruin because we can’t afford a new ground. Its a shitty situation - no doubt about it. But, to my mind, number 1 is just not a viable option. Not unless there is absolutely no other choice. If we are _really_ that desperate for cash, then sell Ljungberg, sell Pires, sell someone who - good as they are - isn’t as completely irreplaceable as Henry. I guess what i’m saying is that it would be overwhelmingly foolish to sell Henry, and I don’t think Dein is a fool. [sub]this a post thats gonna come back and bite me in the arse when Arsenal sell Henry in a couple of months isn’t it…[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-footie-focus-november/211133/189 "2003-11-28T15:35:40Z")
You may have a point about Henry. However the players you mention as alternatives aren’t worth enough. Ljunberg is worth about £5m tops, Pires about the same (because of their wage demands rather than quality). The reason that they didn’t sell them before is that they thought that RBS and DLB had sorted out a loan syndicate (they nearly did too) and as such they were more worried about keeping the team together. The syndicate collapsed (and is unlikely to resurrect), so now they have to look for other income and player sales and wage restructuring are obvious choices. I don’t know what they are going to do. In most businesses in this sort of position the obvious thing to do is float the company, but football shares are pioson in the city at present (and for the forseeable future). They have to make a decision and they have to make it quickly. NB they are not about to go bust but they are higher geared than they’d like to be. ---
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-footie-focus-november/211133/190 "2003-11-28T15:49:20Z")
I agree with you completely - the collapse of the original Ashburton Grove plan has (financially) seriously wrong-footed the club. Christ knows what they are going to do about it. i’ve already checked my address book to see if i knew any rich Russians that i could pass Dave’s way but no luck. I just feel that we are dangerously close to being a “one man” team at the moment. Unless we can rectify that bloody quickly (and lets face it, short of Alliadere suddenly turning out to be the next goal scoring god that ain’t gonna happen) then Henry’s sale would be a disaster. Stupid as it sounds, i just can’t bring myself to taunt my brother about Postiga’s lack of goals whilst - with the exception of Henry - our strikers are no better. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-footie-focus-november/211133/191 "2003-11-28T16:00:47Z")
Another thing to remember here is that, at a business level, fourth is good enough. In other words if they belive that they still have a top four team without Henry then they would negligent to turn down an offer. The money would still come in. I think AFC without Henry are a top four team. If Dein/Fizman and Hill-wood think so too he’ll be sold. That’s when Arsene considers his position. On an unrelated point - if the filth go to Ashburton Road can the tube staion that is currently afflicted go back to being called Gilespie Rd? (Hill-woods grandad was a director of the picadilly line you know) ---
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-footie-focus-november/211133/192 "2003-11-28T16:16:45Z")
If it happens then it will be a purely **business** decision, and for that reason alone it would be bad for the club. For one thing i couldn’t take the piss out of Man Ltd Fans anymore. and with regards to the station, i hope not - i’ve always enjoyed watching the confusion of people who are looking to get off at “Arsenal” but can only see the signs on the tiles which read “Gillespie Rd.” ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-footie-focus-november/211133/193 "2003-11-28T16:25:19Z")
THis is why IMHO football clubs have no place going public. A plc would HAVE to accept the offer. Levy is trying to take THFC private - and I wish him all the luck in the world. ---
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-footie-focus-november/211133/194 "2003-11-28T16:30:31Z")
exactly. I’ve always been strangely proud of the fact that Arsenal _hasn’t_ floated. ---
**Author:** ![owlstretchingtime](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/958977/32.png) [@owlstretchingtime](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/owlstretchingtime)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2003, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-footie-focus-november/211133/195 "2003-11-28T16:34:14Z")
Mind you at £2500 a share it would take some doing! (yes that’s what they cost) ---
**Author:** ![garius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e19b73/32.png) [@garius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garius)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2003, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-footie-focus-november/211133/196 "2003-11-29T10:43:02Z")
hmmmm… thats actually given me an idea for funding the stadium. Raffle Tickets! **runs off to tell David Dein** ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-footie-focus-november/211133/197 "2003-11-30T11:15:35Z")
Bloody deflected goal. Bleh! Anyway, should anyone need reminding, the draw for Euro 2004 takes place in 15 mins (which probably means 45 mins in UEFA time). I’m sure our friends in Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland and Ireland wish us the very best . . . . Anyway, feel free to join me in hoping the worst-case, Group-of-Death scenario e.g. France England Holland Greece doesn’t come to pass. Actually, I don’t care that much . . . well, apart from the French. C’mon In-ger-lan! ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-footie-focus-november/211133/198 "2003-11-30T12:04:49Z")
As I was saying . . . “well, apart from the French”. Bollocks. Group A Portugal Greece Spain Russia Group B France England Switzerland Croatia Group C Sweden Bulgaria Denmark Italy Group D - \ Group of Death \ Czech Rep Latvia Germany Holland Latvia each-way for the Pot, anyone ?? Holland vs. Germany looks as juicy as England vs. France It’s coming home! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Crusoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/49beb7/32.png) [@Crusoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crusoe)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-footie-focus-november/211133/199 "2003-11-30T12:04:55Z")
England France Croatia Switzerland Not too far away. ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2003, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-footie-focus-november/211133/200 "2003-11-30T12:11:08Z")
Of course, the good news about this draw is that, all being well (England and France qualify from the Group), England wouldn’t meet France again until . . … the Final, England having seen off Italy in the semis. Naturally. It’s a thought, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-footie-focus-november/211133.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-footie-focus-november/211133.md?page=11)