# SDMB Hall of Fame Project: First Basemen **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Tags:** baseball-mlb\ **Created:** [December 13, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-first-basemen/774637 "2016-12-13T21:02:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-first-basemen/774637/41 "2016-12-15T18:01:41Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > He’s only about sixth or seventh at best among players his career overlaps with, behind Cabrera, Pujols, Bagwell, Thomas, Thome, probably Palmeiro and McGwire. If you really think 60 percent of the best first basemen played in the past 20 years then I guess there’s your choice. He murders Palmiero on peak, whose sole advantage is a bit more longevity. [I am admittedly biased towards peak, vs. career accumulations, note. I consider a season or two like Helton’s 2000 much more significant than an extra 2400 PA’s-on both ends- at a rather low level.] Big Mac was great-when he wasn’t on the DL (note I added him on my latest ballot). Thomas was a butcher with the glove, and gives away almost all of his edge with the bat while playing D (or sitting in the dugout. Note I think WAR’s DH penalties are a bit excessive). Cabrera you can consider a 1B, and may, at the moment, deserve a slight edge. Thome’s peak is very anemic, only 2 seasons above 5.9 WAR. Bags and Pujols I’ll give you. I put him 3rd, 4th at worst (depending on where you put Cabrera). ---
**Author:** ![Intelligently\_Designed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intelligently_designed/32/20957_2.png) [@Intelligently\_Designed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intelligently_Designed)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-first-basemen/774637/42 "2016-12-15T22:58:18Z")
Jimmie Foxx Hank Greenberg Eddie Murray Willie McCovey Harmon Killebrew Albert Pujols Rod Carew Dan Brouthers Jeff Bagwell Johnny Mize ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-first-basemen/774637/43 "2016-12-16T00:17:08Z")
Cap Anson Johnny Mize Willie McCovey Harmon Killebrew Jimmie Foxx Frank Thomas Albert Pujols Eddie Murray George Sisler Rod Carew ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-first-basemen/774637/44 "2016-12-16T03:54:19Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > He murders Palmiero on peak, whose sole advantage is a bit more longevity. [I am admittedly biased towards peak, vs. career accumulations, note. I consider a season or two like Helton’s 2000 much more significant than an extra 2400 PA’s-on both ends- at a rather low level.] > > Big Mac was great-when he wasn’t on the DL (note I added him on my latest ballot). > > Thomas was a butcher with the glove, and gives away almost all of his edge with the bat while playing D (or sitting in the dugout. Note I think WAR’s DH penalties are a bit excessive). > > Cabrera you can consider a 1B, and may, at the moment, deserve a slight edge. > > Thome’s peak is very anemic, only 2 seasons above 5.9 WAR. > > Bags and Pujols I’ll give you. > > I put him 3rd, 4th at worst (depending on where you put Cabrera). I’d forgotten just how good Helton was in the early 2000s, or maybe I hadn’t ever really known (not only the “Denver discount,” but also playing on teams that generally weren’t all that good). You make some good points about Helton vs. Palmeiro and Thome, especially if you’re giving more weight to peak performance. I’m not so sure about Thomas, though…where career WAR is concerned Thomas has a pretty sizable lead (73.7 to 61.2) in very close to the same number of games. True, the very top seasons belong to Helton, but it’s not a rout by any means. I’m actually of the opposite opinion from you regarding DHs–for various reasons I think WAR should downgrade full-time DHs more than it does–and yet I’d still prefer Thomas, if I had to choose between them. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-first-basemen/774637/45 "2016-12-16T04:06:36Z")
As I mentioned earlier, I’m conflicted about whether to include multiposition guys here, or save them for what I anticipate will be a considerably weaker DH/multiposition field later on. That would be especially Carew, Cabrera, Thomas, Thome, and a couple of others… Anyway, with these folks included I had no trouble getting down to twenty, unlike with catchers. From then it was a little more complicated. Here’s my ballot. Albert Pujols Rod Carew Miguel Cabrera Jimmie Foxx Willie McCovey Todd Helton Jeff Bagwell Johnny Mize Hank Greenberg Frank Thomas ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-first-basemen/774637/46 "2016-12-16T15:53:19Z")
A wish, which may be too late to implement… I wish that we voted top down, ranking our candidates in order (which is what I do anyway), either 10-9-8-7…or, if you think giving the top guy 10x as much weight as the bottom one is too excessive, something like 20-19-18-…12-11. Otherwise the entire focus is on the borderline, and we don’t get to see who ends up on top, either. Yeah, a HoFer is a HoFer, but I’d like to argue for Pujols just as strongly as I do for Helton, but Albert is a shoo-in in this format, so there’s no incentive to waste pixels on him. At the very least I’d like to see the full voting results, % each candidate showed up on the ballots, etc. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-first-basemen/774637/47 "2016-12-16T17:59:34Z")
Sure, I’ll provide full voting results henceforth. With due respect, I will not ask for a weighting or ranking system. It’s a list of names. I believe, in the long run, you will find that making the voting simple will be a good thing. I’d post the numbers for the first two ballots but I can’t find the papers I ticked them off on. I encourage everyone to find more people who like baseball to sign up and vote. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2016, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-first-basemen/774637/48 "2016-12-20T04:04:59Z")
Voting will end Thirsday morning. Where’s Elvisl1ves? We are missing a lot of baseball fans. ---
**Author:** ![zamboniracer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@zamboniracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zamboniracer)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2016, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-first-basemen/774637/49 "2016-12-21T19:43:12Z")
Terry Foxx McCovery Mize Greenberg Pujols Sisler Killebrew Cabrera, Miguel Bagwell Just missing the cut: Joe Pepitone. LOL ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2016, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-first-basemen/774637/50 "2016-12-22T19:41:36Z")
GRRRRRRR This stupid board and randomly getting logged off in mid-post, that’s why I’m posting rarely when it requires a longer response. 1. Cap Anson 2. Roger Connor 3. Dan Brouthers 4. Jimmie Foxx 5. Johnny Mize 6. George Sisler 7. Hank Greenberg 8. Harmon Killebrew 9. Jeff Bagwell 10. Albert Pujols ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-first-basemen/774637/51 "2016-12-23T17:16:12Z")
Voting is extended to Dec 27 as I’m doin’ Christmas stuff; I’ll then total the results and create the Second Basemen thread. Encourage your baseball loving friends to join the SDMB and vote! ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-first-basemen/774637/52 "2017-01-02T15:59:32Z")
So everyone at my work is still off from the holidays, so I just tallied these up on the back of an envelope. No offense intended, **Rick,** I’m just impatient for progress. **In** Jimmie Foxx - 24 Albert Pujols - 24 Johnny Mize - 21 Willie McCovey - 20 Hank Greenberg - 19 Jeff Bagwell - 18 Frank Thomas - 17 Eddie Murray - 17 Cap Anson - 12 Jim Thome - 12 Harmon Killebrew - 12 Rod Carew - 12 That’s the top 12 right there, with four guys tying for the last two spots out of ten. I think the rule is they all get in. **Swung and Missed** Miguel Cabrera - 10 George Sisler - 6 Mark McGwire, Buck Leonard - 4 Dan Brouthers, Todd Helton, Bill Terry - 3 Roger Connor, Rafe Palmeiro - 2 Keith Hernandez, Stan Musial, Tony Perez, Pete Rose - 1 ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-first-basemen/774637/53 "2017-01-02T16:04:06Z")
Note: there were no unanimous selections for this round. Jimmie and Al each missed one ballot apiece ( **kenobi65** for Pujols and **BlankSlate** for Foxx.) ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-first-basemen/774637/54 "2017-01-02T16:46:07Z")
If **Rickjay** sees this before making the count final, I’d like to switch Hernandez for Greenberg. I’m aware of most MLB stars who lost seasons to WWII, but I overlooked Greenberg. He was a monster, and lost nearly 4.5 seasons. Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-first-basemen/774637/55 "2017-01-02T16:51:36Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > If **Rickjay** sees this before making the count final, I’d like to switch Hernandez for Greenberg. I’m aware of most MLB stars who lost seasons to WWII, but I overlooked Greenberg. He was a monster, and lost nearly 4.5 seasons. Wow. It wouldn’t change the results, and might strip a great mustache from consideration in the Runoff elections later on. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-first-basemen/774637/56 "2017-01-02T18:21:03Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > So everyone at my work is still off from the holidays, so I just tallied these up on the back of an envelope. No offense intended, **Rick,** I’m just impatient for progress. > > **In** > > Jimmie Foxx - 24 > Albert Pujols - 24 > Johnny Mize - 21 > Willie McCovey - 20 > Hank Greenberg - 19 > Jeff Bagwell - 18 > Frank Thomas - 17 > Eddie Murray - 17 > Cap Anson - 12 > Jim Thome - 12 > Harmon Killebrew - 12 > Rod Carew - 12 > > That’s the top 12 right there, with four guys tying for the last two spots out of ten. I think the rule is they all get in. Of course, if we leave Rod Carew off, he’ll make it in as a second baseman in the next round, for sure. And I’d vote for Harmon as a Third baseman ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2017, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-first-basemen/774637/57 "2017-01-02T19:21:57Z")
Yes, the rule is they’re all in. Thanks for adding it up! 2nd Base ballot tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![TroutMan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troutman/32/6721_2.png) [@TroutMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TroutMan)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2017, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-first-basemen/774637/58 "2017-01-03T21:04:21Z")
Second baseman ballot is live [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=815248). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-hall-of-fame-project-first-basemen/774637.md?page=2)