# SDMB is pro-Lisbon Treaty. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 1, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-is-pro-lisbon-treaty/512232 "2009-10-01T13:59:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-is-pro-lisbon-treaty/512232/21 "2009-10-03T13:37:49Z")
[Irish ‘Yes’ to EU treaty expected](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8288181.stm) > [@](#): > > Tallies based on partial results indicate a 60:40 “Yes” vote in some constituencies. > > The first official result, for Tipperary South in southern Ireland, showed 68.4% voting “Yes” and 31.6% “No”. > > Later, the result from Kildare North showed 76% in favour and in Tipperary North the “Yes” vote was 70%. > > As expected, Donegal North East rejected the treaty again, but only narrowly, with 52% to the “No” camp. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-is-pro-lisbon-treaty/512232/22 "2009-10-03T17:11:37Z")
[Ireland voted 67% in favor of the Lisbon Treaty with just 33% voting against, according to the final count announced Saturday.](http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20091003-700851.html) ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-is-pro-lisbon-treaty/512232/23 "2009-10-03T17:54:26Z")
Even though I opposed the treaty I don’t really have a problem with it being put to the voters a second time. We always had the option of giving the same answer. Just on a point of information a treaty only needs to be put to referendum here if it involves Ireland ceding sovereignty on any matter where it hasn’t already been ceded in a treaty passed by a previous referendum. IIRC it was specifically the issues to do with energy policy that made Lisbon require a referendum. ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-is-pro-lisbon-treaty/512232/24 "2009-10-03T18:19:14Z")
This is extremely disappointing :(. I am totally opposed to any more power being moved to the EU. I suppose all rests with Klaus to be Santa. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-is-pro-lisbon-treaty/512232/25 "2009-10-03T22:57:46Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [Ireland voted 67% in favor of the Lisbon Treaty with just 33% voting against, according to the final count announced Saturday.](http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20091003-700851.html) Wow, that’s an almost twenty-point shift from the previous vote. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-is-pro-lisbon-treaty/512232/26 "2009-10-04T06:06:09Z")
> [@Wallenstein](#): > > Anecdotally quite a few people in Ireland feel they’ve had more time to understand the issues this time around; the “No” vote last time was often a rejection of something not understood. > > That’s not to say even now that people actually realise what they are voting for, but they think they do which si more likely to give a “Yes” result. And that’s my own gripe with this kind of processes. 1. Politicians go and write a document. 2. Politicians suddenly realize they need to have it passed by the uneducated masses. 3. Politicians say “vote yes for this thing, uneducated masses. Don’t bother ask for explanations as we’re not giving any.” 4. Uneducated masses vote “I don’t even understand half the nouns in that document, I’m voting NO.” 5. Politicians faint. 6. Politicians recover from the faint after a healthy dose of salts. 7. Politicians may or may not rewrite the document slightly. 8. Politicians send the (new) document for the uneducated masses to vote about, this time with explanations. Maybe if they explained from the start we’d be able to save a few steps and not-so-few millions, participation would be higher, you know, “democracy would work”? ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-is-pro-lisbon-treaty/512232/27 "2009-10-04T06:36:25Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > 1. Politicians send the (new) document for the uneducated masses to vote about, this time with explanations. That didn’t really happen this time either. The argument from the Yes side was fundamentally the same as it was last time, i.e., the threat of retaliation from the rest of the EU if we vote No. I think that argument just resonated more this time around because of the state of the economy. People might or might not believe that threat but they’re less likely to want to risk it. ---
**Author:** ![williambaskerville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f14d63/32.png) [@williambaskerville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/williambaskerville)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-is-pro-lisbon-treaty/512232/28 "2009-10-04T08:13:17Z")
> [@ruadh](#): > > That didn’t really happen this time either. The argument from the Yes side was fundamentally the same as it was last time, i.e., the threat of retaliation from the rest of the EU if we vote No. I think that argument just resonated more this time around because of the state of the economy. People might or might not believe that threat but they’re less likely to want to risk it. Sorry I disagree. (I’m Irish btw). The Irish history on European referanda is that we vote no the first time, and yes the second time when people realise it’s serious. I would place a large bet that Ireland would have voted yes on this referendum (the second Lisbon) in 2004, when the Celtic Tiger was in his full plumage. ---
**Author:** ![ruadh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@ruadh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ruadh)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2009, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-is-pro-lisbon-treaty/512232/29 "2009-10-04T09:11:23Z")
> [@williambaskerville](#): > > The Irish history on European referanda is that we vote no the first time, and yes the second time when people realise it’s serious. Eh, wrong. The first four referenda were all passed by 60%+ majorities the first time around (well over 60% for most of them in fact). Only Nice and Lisbon were defeated on their first attempt. That may indicate the emergence of a new pattern, but it hardly qualifies as “the Irish history on European referenda”. I’m intrigued as to what you mean by your suggestion that people didn’t “realise it’s serious” in the first vote. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-is-pro-lisbon-treaty/512232.md?page=1)