# SDMB liberals...who do you want in the next Presidential election? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 25, 2011, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-liberals-who-do-you-want-in-the-next-presidential-election/590302 "2011-07-25T19:56:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-liberals-who-do-you-want-in-the-next-presidential-election/590302/121 "2011-07-31T16:08:19Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > You might look into the history of poll taxes. Citizens \*cannot \*be required to incur expense in order to exercise their franchise. I don’t think that’s entirely true, necessarily. Citizens cannot be required to incur direct expense in order to exercise the franchise. So you couldn’t say “pay $10 to vote”, or even “Pay $40 for a drivers license that you need to show to vote.” But I’m pretty sure that the courts have ruled that states can impose voting requirements that have incidental expense. So as long as the state offers some sort of voter ID for free, that’s not a poll tax violation, even if there’s incidental expense to the voter in getting to the DMV or wherever to register for one and get it picked up. ---
**Author:** ![Recovering\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@Recovering\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recovering_Republican)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-liberals-who-do-you-want-in-the-next-presidential-election/590302/122 "2011-07-31T16:50:01Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > You mean stupidly, not seriously. You made a value judgement, that those who do not have ID, for whatever reasons are irresponsible. If you could follow a thread, you would see many seniors, poor people and minorities have a serious problem obtaining the ID that these right wing states are demanding. I suppose you can argue that being old, black or poor is irresponsible. > You are like XT who could not understand that 174,000 people in North Carolina, would have a problem voting . That is one state out of the 12 that are putting up voter roadblocks to stop potential Democratic voters from the polls. But in your world, people who vote Democratic are irresponsible. So it probably makes sense to you. Just the rest of the world would be out of step. Yeah, it’s a real value judgement. Heck, I thought Motor Voter was a terrible idea to start with. Just about screams “Chicago Voter Fraud”. You want to vote, prove you are who you say you are. Sounds simple enough to me. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-liberals-who-do-you-want-in-the-next-presidential-election/590302/123 "2011-07-31T20:04:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Your guy had that [a 60-seat Senate majority]… and he made a worse mess of things. When was that, exactly? [By my count](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111th_United_States_Congress#Party_summary), we peaked at 58, and that only for a few months (July 7 - August 25, 2009 and September 25, 2009 - February 4, 2010). And that’s counting the full membership, including Byrd and Kennedy, who were too sick to take part in most of the Senate’s business. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-liberals-who-do-you-want-in-the-next-presidential-election/590302/124 "2011-07-31T20:19:27Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > When was that, exactly? [By my count](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/111th_United_States_Congress#Party_summary), we peaked at 58, and that only for a few months (July 7 - August 25, 2009 and September 25, 2009 - February 4, 2010). And that’s counting the full membership, including Byrd and Kennedy, who were too sick to take part in most of the Senate’s business. He’s counting Sanders and Lieberman, who were independents who caucused with the Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-liberals-who-do-you-want-in-the-next-presidential-election/590302/125 "2011-07-31T21:26:14Z")
> [@Recovering\_Republican](#): > > Yeah, it’s a real value judgement. > > Heck, I thought Motor Voter was a terrible idea to start with. Just about screams “Chicago Voter Fraud”. > > You want to vote, prove you are who you say you are. Sounds simple enough to me. There is no damn voter fraud problem in America. You rightys ,who swallow everything the right wing chums your way, seem to love a solution without a problem. Nothing sinks in. Ohio 4 potential bad votes in 10 million. I suppose you thing everybody should have passports and retina scanners to prevent the stealing of elections.. They are not stolen by bad voters. They are stolen be preventing legitimate voters exercise their right to vote. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-liberals-who-do-you-want-in-the-next-presidential-election/590302/126 "2011-07-31T21:52:59Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > He’s counting Sanders and Lieberman, who were independents who caucused with the Democrats. Yes and sometimes. Lieberman (I- Hartford Insurance Industry) reveled in tossing sand in the gears for just about everything. The only good thing he ever voted with the caucus on was repealing DADT. Not that there weren’t quite a few DINOs tossing sand with him. Bayh (D-HMO Industry) and Nelson (D-Asshole) were about as obstructionist as any Republican, and Lincoln (D-Walmart) was horrible, too. ---
**Author:** ![Recovering\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@Recovering\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recovering_Republican)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-liberals-who-do-you-want-in-the-next-presidential-election/590302/127 "2011-07-31T22:51:29Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > There is no damn voter fraud problem in America. You rightys ,who swallow everything the right wing chums your way, seem to love a solution without a problem. Nothing sinks in. Ohio 4 potential bad votes in 10 million. I suppose you thing everybody should have passports and retina scanners to prevent the stealing of elections.. They are not stolen by bad voters. They are stolen be preventing legitimate voters exercise their right to vote. Right, there is no fraud in Ohio… Ummmm… Hmmmm… > **[1 VOTER, 72 REGISTRATIONS](https://nypost.com/2008/10/10/1-voter-72-registrations/)** > > CLEVELAND – A man at the center of a voter-registration scandal told The Post yesterday he was given cash and cigarettes by aggressive ACORN activists in exchange for registering an astonishi… > [@](#): > > A man at the center of a voter-registration scandal told The Post yesterday he was given cash and cigarettes by aggressive ACORN activists in exchange for registering an astonishing 72 times, in apparent violation of Ohio laws. > > “Sometimes, they come up and bribe me with a cigarette, or they’ll give me a dollar to sign up,” said Freddie Johnson, 19, who filled out 72 separate voter-registration cards over an 18-month period at the behest of the left-leaning Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now. > > "The ACORN people are everywhere, looking to sign people up. I tell them I am already registered. The girl said, ‘You are?’ I say, ‘Yup,’ and then they say, ‘Can you just sign up again?’ " he said. > > ACORN is under investigation in Ohio and at least eight other states - including Missouri, where the FBI said it’s planning to look into potential voter fraud - for over-the-top efforts to get as many names as possible on the voter rolls regardless of whether a person is registered or eligible. > > It’s even under investigation in Bridgeport, Conn., for allegedly registering a 7-year-old girl to vote, according to the State Elections Enforcement Commission. > > Meanwhile, a federal judge yesterday ordered Ohio’s Secretary of State to verify the identity of newly registered voters by matching them with other government documents. The order was in response to a Republican lawsuit unrelated to the ACORN probe in Cuyahoga County, in which at least three people, including Johnson, have been subpoenaed. Nothing to see here… ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2011, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-liberals-who-do-you-want-in-the-next-presidential-election/590302/128 "2011-07-31T23:15:39Z")
> [@](#): > > He’s counting Sanders and Lieberman, who were independents who caucused with the Democrats. He probably is, but he shouldn’t. For all his complaining about folks who are members of a party “in name only”, he shouldn’t give any credit at all to folks who aren’t even in name. As for those alleged frauds in Ohio, that article was from October of 2008, and the only thing it says of substance is that ACORN is “under investigation”. Got any results from those investigations yet? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-liberals-who-do-you-want-in-the-next-presidential-election/590302/129 "2011-08-01T00:10:06Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Yes and sometimes. Lieberman (I- Hartford Insurance Industry) reveled in tossing sand in the gears for just about everything. The only good thing he ever voted with the caucus on was repealing DADT. > > Not that there weren’t quite a few DINOs tossing sand with him. Bayh (D-HMO Industry) and Nelson (D-Asshole) were about as obstructionist as any Republican, and Lincoln (D-Walmart) was horrible, too. That’s simple caucus management, though, and not something unique to the Democrats. Both parties have to manage their caucuses. The Republicans have the same problems with people like Collins and Snowe. And for what it’s worth, Lieberman voted with the Democrats a lot more than he voted against them, and for that matter, so did Bayh, Nelson, and Lincoln. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-liberals-who-do-you-want-in-the-next-presidential-election/590302/130 "2011-08-01T00:22:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > He probably is, but he shouldn’t. For all his complaining about folks who are members of a party “in name only”, he shouldn’t give any credit at all to folks who aren’t even in name. Maybe, but nobody says Al Franken and Debbie Klobuchar aren’t Democrats, although technically they’re members of the DFL, and in the House, the Resident Commissioner of Puerto Rico, Pedro Pierlusi, gets called a Democrat, even though he was elected under the banner of the New Progressive Party. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-liberals-who-do-you-want-in-the-next-presidential-election/590302/131 "2011-08-01T00:31:34Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > And for what it’s worth, Lieberman voted with the Democrats a lot more than he voted against them, and for that matter, so did Bayh, Nelson, and Lincoln. Yeah, we can let go the little stuff like a war of aggression, or a public option on health care, knowing ol’ Joe was right there with us every time a post office needed renaming. The other parties you named are simply the names the Democrats use in those jurisdictions, for historical reasons. The people you named are indeed Democrats, while Lieberman and Sanders are not. Your quibbling is silly. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-liberals-who-do-you-want-in-the-next-presidential-election/590302/132 "2011-08-01T00:45:57Z")
> [@Recovering\_Republican](#): > > Right, there is no fraud in Ohio… Ummmm… Hmmmm… > > [1 VOTER, 72 REGISTRATIONS](http://www.nypost.com/p/news/politics/item_8dh7PaKRiPc0BFNPZVnGMM) > > Nothing to see here… Not if you are completely unable to understand that ACORN registered voters. Those registrations were reviewed by the election commission. The bad ones were thrown out. That means…They did not vote irregularly. Why is that so hard for rightys to understand.that? The voter fraud, is 4 in 10 million. Some workers turned in false registrations to get paid.That is not voter fraud. Not voter fraud. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-liberals-who-do-you-want-in-the-next-presidential-election/590302/133 "2011-08-01T01:25:46Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Yeah, we can let go the little stuff like a war of aggression, or a public option on health care, knowing ol’ Joe was right there with us every time a post office needed renaming. He may not have supported the public option, but he supported the health care bill. And there were a lot of Democrats who were against a public option. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-liberals-who-do-you-want-in-the-next-presidential-election/590302/134 "2011-08-01T02:10:29Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] You are, as I said, proving residency, not citizenship. Resident aliens can get DL’s, too, and Social Security cards, since they pay into the system as well. You are also proving, via acceptable photo ID, that you are the person named on your license. That that name matches that of someone who is registered to vote at the same address does not prove citizenship or a right to vote, since those things would have been established at the time that person registered. [/QUOTE] I didn’t have to provide any of the things you specified to register either…just a drivers license (which I didn’t need a birth certificate OR a passport for either). Can you give me a cite where states require birth certificates or passports to register or vote? That would clear all of this up, since that’s what I was asking for. > [@](#): > > You don’t. You need them to register. Some jurisdictions issue registration cards, some don’t (mine doesn’t, either). But, you see, I DIDN’T need them to register to vote. I’ve never had to produce them to register to vote. So…where are those things you specified required to register to vote? Which states require them? Obviously not all do, since I’ve never had to produce either. > [@](#): > > Play nice, boys. Not a chance. He produces drive by cites without even bothering to quote anything relevant. Half the time they are from some fringe nutter web site, or have nothing to do with whatever point he thinks he’s making. I have zero intention of clicking on his links when he can’t be arsed to even say what the link is supposed to be proving. -XT ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-liberals-who-do-you-want-in-the-next-presidential-election/590302/135 "2011-08-01T02:28:27Z")
[http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43156562/ns/politics-decision\_2012/t/voter-id-debate-could-change-landscape/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43156562/ns/politics-decision_2012/t/voter-id-debate-could-change-landscape/) Here is an article describing how states are attempting to change voter laws. If you saw the Colbert response earlier, he shows there are 12 states in the process of trying to suppress Dem voters. If you go back and see it, take the time to explain it to XT that it was already answered. He makes drive by insults, but is unable to respond to threads properly. you will get used to it and in time, see it as a childish and sometimes humorous aside. But largely irrelevant bloviating. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-liberals-who-do-you-want-in-the-next-presidential-election/590302/136 "2011-08-01T02:34:51Z")
[Republicans Change Voting Rules To Require Picture ID — LWV Warns Of Voter Disenfranchisement — Ohio Senate To Discuss HB159 Tomorrow | DaytonOS](http://daytonos.com/?p=10947) Another example and an explanation of what the states intent is. ---
**Author:** ![BDBoop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@BDBoop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BDBoop)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-liberals-who-do-you-want-in-the-next-presidential-election/590302/137 "2011-08-01T02:42:18Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Well, he did state an intention, but the Congressional Republicans immediately set their hair on fire and started screaming “TERRORISTS IN OUR BACKYARD!!!111!!” and that was that. > > \*ETA: Considering the kind of crappy Blue Dogs in both the Senate and the House the Democrats had at the time, there were probably a few of those also screaming stupid shit. That cracked me right the hell up, thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Recovering\_Republican](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d2c977/32.png) [@Recovering\_Republican](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recovering_Republican)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-liberals-who-do-you-want-in-the-next-presidential-election/590302/138 "2011-08-01T11:25:35Z")
> [@BDBoop](#): > > That cracked me right the hell up, thank you. You aren’t the same BDBoop that posts on USA Message boards, are you? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-liberals-who-do-you-want-in-the-next-presidential-election/590302/139 "2011-08-01T15:20:01Z")
[QUOTE=gonzomax] [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43156562...nge-landscape/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43156562...nge-landscape/) Here is an article describing how states are attempting to change voter laws. If you saw the Colbert response earlier, he shows there are 12 states in the process of trying to suppress Dem voters. If you go back and see it, take the time to explain it to XT that it was already answered. He makes drive by insults, but is unable to respond to threads properly. you will get used to it and in time, see it as a childish and sometimes humorous aside. But largely irrelevant bloviating. [/QUOTE] > [@](#): > > [Republicans Change Voting Rules To Require Picture ID — LWV Warns Of Voter Disenfranchisement — Ohio Senate To Discuss HB159 Tomorrow |](http://daytonos.com/?p=10947) Another example and an explanation of what the states intent is. Do I need to write this in braille or send smoke signals for you to understand? I’m not going to read any more of your drive by links. Quote the relevant parts of what you are linking too, explain why you think it answers the call for a cite or what you think is important about it, and then I’ll check out your link if I think it’s worth the time. Otherwise you are spewing links into a thread without anything of meaning. And if your links don’t show states that are ALREADY doing this (not have plans to, or are thinking about it, or are fantasizing about it) then, again, you are wasting time and aren’t backing up WHAT I ASKED YOU TO CITE. I don’t know how to be any clearer with you…either do it or don’t. Entirely up to you old boy. But if you don’t do it then I’ll consider this side discussion closed and that you have once again failed to backup any of your bullshit. Par for the course, really. -XT ---
**Author:** ![BDBoop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@BDBoop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BDBoop)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2011, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-liberals-who-do-you-want-in-the-next-presidential-election/590302/140 "2011-08-01T15:57:27Z")
> [@Recovering\_Republican](#): > > You aren’t the same BDBoop that posts on USA Message boards, are you? Is this going to get ugly? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-liberals-who-do-you-want-in-the-next-presidential-election/590302.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-liberals-who-do-you-want-in-the-next-presidential-election/590302.md?page=8)