# \*\* SDMB live coverage thread, 2nd POTUS debate, 10/09/2016 \*\* **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 5, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737 "2016-10-05T22:55:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/581 "2016-10-10T02:47:30Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Can I get a fact check on us being energy independent, as Clinton claimed? > > According to wikipedia, we’re not: > > [United States energy independence - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_energy_independence) Nah, it’s bullshit. Last I checked, Canada is still an independent country. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/582 "2016-10-10T02:47:30Z")
It wasn’t the curb-stomping I was hoping for, but Trump is still on the ropes. The next couple of video releases will bury him. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/583 "2016-10-10T02:48:57Z")
MSNBC is pointing out that Trump appeared angry, stood behind Hillary, paced around the room. He clearly lost the visual part of the debate. ---
**Author:** ![Rushgeekgirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rushgeekgirl/32/3715_2.png) [@Rushgeekgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rushgeekgirl)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/584 "2016-10-10T02:50:03Z")
With all those Canadians making a run for the border for quality health care I’m surprised Trump hasn’t suggested building a wall up north. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/585 "2016-10-10T02:50:43Z")
In regards to winning, if one side lies throughout the debate and the other doesn’t, the lying side loses regardless of whether they met our “personality” expectations. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/586 "2016-10-10T02:52:10Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I’ll be interested to hear the take of the voters who claim to be undecideds on the outcome. I’m only undecided in the sense that I don’t like either of them, but Clinton kicked the everloving hell out of him. And I didn’t think that was the case in the first debate. As I said, Trump landed some jabs. But she landed haymakers. And then pulled out a sledgehammer and was about to hit him with it, but he said, “Let me. I’m really amazing at this, this’ll be the greatest thing you’ll ever see.” and caved his skull in with it. Clinton was duly impressed. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/587 "2016-10-10T02:52:11Z")
Pence tweets congrats to Trump on a “debate win.” ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/588 "2016-10-10T02:52:26Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > In regards to winning, if one side lies throughout the debate and the other doesn’t, the lying side loses regardless of whether they met our “personality” expectations. I don’t think lies are as important to the general electorate as we would like them to be. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/589 "2016-10-10T02:52:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Pence really should quit, BTW. Apparently he just sent a tweet congratulating him on the debate. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/590 "2016-10-10T02:52:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So is an embargo of Cuba. If it’s important enough you do brinksmanship and see who blinks. Is Syria that important? Probably not, but if Clinton makes the play I’ll back her. The Cuban Missile Crisis was about having a missile base a few minutes from Washington DC which is an extremely destabilizing situation, in the middle of the cold war. It’s a tricky, volatile situation that required a response. Syria is nothing in comparison. Not a compelling national interest. Not a threat to world stability. Why are we anxious to restart cold war tensions over it? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/591 "2016-10-10T02:53:03Z")
[Awww, looks like Mike and Donald have made up.](https://twitter.com/mike_pence/status/785310165327151104) Of course, my earlier post is now invalid. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/592 "2016-10-10T02:53:04Z")
> [@Rushgeekgirl](#): > > With all those Canadians making a run for the border for quality health care I’m surprised Trump hasn’t suggested building a wall up north. Too extreme a reaction, a scattering of minefields ought to be enough. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/593 "2016-10-10T02:53:47Z")
Clinton was correct about Trump regarding the steel from China, Like his ties, he has not minded much that he sent American jobs overseas. > **[How Trump Ditched U.S. Steel Workers in Favor of China](https://www.newsweek.com/2016/10/21/how-donald-trump-ditched-us-steel-workers-china-505717.html)** > > With their industries besieged by imports, key swing states were deprived of untold millions of dollars as Trump chose China. > [@](#): > > How Donald Trump Ditched U.S. Steel Workers in Favor of China > > Plenty of blue-collar workers believe that, as president, Donald Trump would be ready to fight off U.S. trade adversaries and reinvigorate the country’s manufacturing industries through his commitment to the Rust Belt. What they likely don’t know is that Trump has been stiffing American steel workers on his own construction projects for years, choosing to deprive untold millions of dollars from four key electoral swing states and instead directing it to China—the country whose trade practices have helped decimate the once-powerful industrial center of the United States. > > A Newsweek investigation has found that in at least two of Trump’s last three construction projects, Trump opted to purchase his steel and aluminum from Chinese manufacturers rather than United States corporations based in states like Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan and Wisconsin. In other instances, he abandoned steel altogether, instead choosing the far-less-expensive option of buying concrete from various companies, including some linked to the Luchese and Genovese crime families. Trump has never been accused of engaging in any wrongdoing for his business dealings with those companies, but it’s true that the Mafia has long controlled much of the concrete industry in New York. > > Throughout his campaign, Trump has maintained that some controversial decisions for his companies amounted to nothing more than taking actions that were good for business, and were therefore reflections of his financial acumen. But, with the exception of one business that collapsed into multiple bankruptcies, Trump does not operate a public company; he has no fiduciary obligation to shareholders to obtain the highest returns he can. His decisions to turn away from American producers were not driven by legal obligations to investors, but simply resulted in higher profits for himself and his family. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/594 "2016-10-10T02:54:06Z")
Sigh. I’m not going to hold this against Pence should he run in the future, I’m still pretty high on the guy, but an exit would be nice about now. ---
**Author:** ![JohnGalt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johngalt/32/184_2.png) [@JohnGalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnGalt)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/595 "2016-10-10T02:54:50Z")
Gawd, Kellyanne Conway is on MSNBC now. Now that’s a person I’d hate to debate with; she’s able to twist anything to fit a narrative. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/596 "2016-10-10T02:55:47Z")
That’s her job. She’s actually better at that part of it than Clinton’s team. Obama had good people for that too. Who was that blonde lady he had as his spokesperson during the 2012 campaign? She was shameless. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/597 "2016-10-10T02:55:54Z")
Jimmy Carville(?) says she can talk the legs off a table. ---
**Author:** ![OwnRules](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@OwnRules](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OwnRules)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/598 "2016-10-10T02:55:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > We have truly entered Bizarro world when the Democrats are strong on Russia and the Republicans weak. Nothing “Bizarro” about Hillary continuing Obama’s Neocon Light FP. That said, where did all the Iraq war protesters go? I was one and to this day _continue_ to disagree with what is being done in the MENA region. Just seems like PNAC has gone underground and resurfaced as Dems. > [@](#): > > For those of us with principles beyond winning, that’s huge. I’d much rather have a Democratic President with a mad-on for Russia than a Republican who is going to kiss Putin’s ass. Right. Because the mess in the Middle East is Putin’s fault. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/599 "2016-10-10T02:56:11Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Sigh. I’m not going to hold this against Pence should he run in the future, I’m still pretty high on the guy, but an exit would be nice about now. Why? He’s a religious fanatic and homophobe who thinks gay people need to be rehabilitated, and he wants to heap totally unnecessary requirements on women for abortions, both before and after the procedures. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2016, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737/600 "2016-10-10T02:56:30Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > MSNBC is pointing out that Trump appeared angry, stood behind Hillary, paced around the room. He clearly lost the visual part of the debate. One of the 538 guys pointed out that it’s not Trump looming, it’s Clinton (wisely, and apparently as her husband famously did) positioning herself between him and the camera to make it look like he is looming. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sdmb-live-coverage-thread-2nd-potus-debate-10-09-2016/767737.md?page=31)